The Kaaba/Mecca connection to the Bible

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
...as if Mohammad needed the approval of Jews and Christians.
Mohammad won. And the Jews and Christians were booted out of Arabia.

Historical fact ... Muhammad would have grabbed Jerusalem for his new cult but the people there saw through him and rejected him. So he set up shop in the pagan Mecca .. and adopted many pagan practices and rituals into his new fangled religion. The ONLY reason Muhammad had his fake vision of Mecca being the new center was because the people of Jerusalem rejected him. Wake up.

2 early examples of Christian ignorance.

No dude. Two examples of factual historians.

Robert Morey

For anyone bothering to read this deflection tripe .... I went and looked up this 'morey' guy that Skorpion is always trying to deflect with. He's a fundamentalist Christian who wrote anti-Islamic stuff around the year 2000-2006.

Trying to deflect from answering because a fundamentalist preacher who absolutely no one has heard of wrote some anti-Islamic literature 10 years ago is really an EPIC FAIL on Skorpions part. The information that people are quoting and asking for a direct answer to come from historians and sociologists from a hundred years earlier than this Morey fella lived. From two hundred years earlier.

So, for a change, answer the questions that are coming from historians and sociologists from hundreds of years ago Skorpion ... WHY do Muslims have Hubals crescent on top of their mosque and on their flag? WHY do Muslims worship the pagan meteorite? WHY do Muslims run between the hills like the pagans of that area did? That's not from your 'morey' fella ... these are observations that have been going on for HUNDREDS of years from learned historians and sociologists ... not 10 years from some preacher that no one has ever heard of.


Obviously there is no Kaaba connection to the bible. This is just another case of a Muslim trying to hang on to the coat tails of the established older religion in order to try to make his more legitimate somehow. Easy to see through ...

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Mohammad fought against worshipers of Hubal.

Then why is Hubals crescent on top of Muslim mosques and on their flag? And why do Muslims do the pagan 'run between the hills'?? And why do they worship the meteorite like the pagans did? Don't deflect. Answer the questions for a change.

And also made it clear exactly who He worshiped.

Oh .. I agree with you on that.

More to the point;

In the great Jewish temple they had the holy of holies, the inner sanctum where the ark was kept - something that God gave directly himself to the people.

In the older christian faiths (catholicism, orthodox etc) there is a tabernacle where the body of Christ resides.

All Islam has on offer is a box with a rock stuck to it and unlike both other faiths, there is an obligation to make Mecca rich by paying a visit to this site. i.e. There is no real claim to Mecca having a direct physical link to God like the other two faiths have but you still have to go there and contribute to the local economy, which btw God has nothing to do with.

Judaism and Christianity have no such conditions on their faith. God is omnipresent and he doesn't in a box in mecca.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
The rest of your post is Robert Morey / Chick tract nonsense.

Pathetic. Dude .. your continued deflections and rants about this 'Robert Morey' fella are absurd. No one but you has heard of him.

No, Robert Morey is quite famous for his crackpot theories (and his fake degrees).
And people like YOU and those behind Chick tracts keep repeating Robert Moreys lies and passing it off as a "fact". So now its quite clear as to where you get your "facts" from.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
.

So he set up shop in the pagan Mecca .. and adopted many pagan practices and rituals into his new fangled religion.

WHY do Muslims have Hubals crescent on top of their mosque and on their flag?

WHY do Muslims worship the pagan meteorite? WHY do Muslims run between the hills like the pagans of that area did?

Even more Robert Morey/Chick tract nonsense.
Since you googled Morey, you do realize that he lied about his own "degrees" and "education", right?

Your questions are as retarded as asking "why do Christians worship Mithras"?. In both cases, the question is based on a fundamentally flawed premise.

..... trying to hang on to the coat tails of the established older religion in order to try to make his more legitimate somehow.

Islam has its own scriptures.. and corrects the mistakes of Jews AND Christians.

We only use the Bible for cross-referencing whenever required. And since polytheistic Christians won't listen to the Koran, we CAN use the Bible to prove Islam, monotheism and the prophethood of Mohammad... And we CAN use the Bible to demolish Christianitys pagan ideas such as trinity and the man-god.

However, Christianity
- Stole the entire Jewish scriptures and now say "hey, look this verse says God is trinity". (ok this doesn't apply to you since you admit you reject most of the Old Testament figures. Some "Christian" you are.)

and Christiainity also stole the ideas of pagan polytheistic religions with ideas of a "man-god" and "father-god" and "trinity".

a reply to: markosity1973

All Islam has on offer is a box with a rock stuck to it and unlike both other faiths, there is an obligation to make Mecca rich by paying a visit to this site. i.e. There is no real claim to Mecca having a direct physical link to God like the other two faiths have but you still have to go there and contribute to the local economy, which btw God has nothing to do with.

The rock simply marks the direction Muslims are to face while worshipping.
This central point of focus for worship is ALSO mentioned in the Old Testament, but that shouldn't matter to the Christians who do everything from insulting prophets to marrying homosexuals in their churches. Christianity has lost its connection to its own scriptures.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
And people like YOU and those behind Chick tracts keep repeating Robert Moreys lies and passing it off as a "fact". So now its quite clear as to where you get your "facts" from.

again .... Your Morey dude, who pretty much no one here heard of, wrote from 2000-2006. The information being posted here PREDATES him by a hundred years, by two hundred years. So your continued Morey rants are absurd.


THERE IS NO KAABA - BIBLE CONNECTION.
The information was given on the first page.
All your Kaaba-bible connection notions have been disproven..

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Even more Robert Morey/Chick tract nonsense.

Your deflection isn't working. No one is quoting him. These questions PREDATE him by hundreds of years. Answer the questions and stop deflecting for a change.

Since you googled Morey, you do realize that he lied about his own "degrees" and "education", right?

You do realize that NO ONE IS QUOTING MOREY so what his degrees and education say is irrelevant

since polytheistic Christians won't listen to the Koran,

1 - It's not polytheistic.
2 - Of course Christians won't listen to the Koran. It's a load of bunk made up by a murdering thief. And it directly contradicts eyewitness gospel accounts of Jesus life.

we CAN use the Bible to prove Islam, monotheism and the prophethood of Mohammad...

1 - The bible proves Islam is false.
2 - Mohammad wasn't a prophet. Not even close.
3 - THERE IS NO KAABA - BIBLE CONNECTION.
The information was given on the first page.
All your Kaaba-bible connection notions have been disproven.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Islam has its own scriptures.. and corrects the mistakes of Jews AND Christians.

- The Jews and Christian scriptures didn't make 'mistakes to be corrected'.
- Muhammad just made up a load of bunk 650 years after Jesus lived. He didn't correct anything and he wouldn't know what happened hundreds and thousands of years before he lived.

THERE IS NO KAABA - BIBLE CONNECTION.
The information was given on the first page.
All your Kaaba-bible connection notions have been disproven.

a reply to: FlyersFan
I'm sorry, but if you're talking about Allah being a moon god, or Allah being the same as Hubal today, you got it from Morey's work in 1992 and 1994 (not 2000 or 2006), whether directly or indirectly. Go ahead and find me a single accredited historian or scholar (unbiased in any direction towards any religion) of TODAY who thinks that Allah is the moon god, or Allah is Hubal. You can't, because nobody thinks that anymore.

And I'm not talking about historians from 200 years ago. I don't think that people who assumed that africans were deficient because of the shape of their heads, and that all ancient monuments in Africa were built by some secret white race, have anything useful to say on this matter. Or are you suggesting that people 200 years ago had better scholarship than people now?

Besides, you wouldn't have heard anything about them if not for Morey's quotes and misquotes of their work.

That stone statue with the raised hands and upside down moon on the chest that people claim is an idol of Allah- Incorrectly associated by Robert Morey.
The distortion of the findings of the early 20th century excavations in Israel (Segall, Halévy) and Yemen (Professor Carleton Stevens Coon, Gertrude Caton–Thompson), to somehow prove that Allah is Hubal- Morey
The distortion of the works of Professor Carleton Stevens Coon (not that they were anything laudable in the first place, being, along with his inspiration Franz Weidenreich, the dudes who basically made up the theory about racial superiority and african head-sizes and so on) to somehow prove that Allah was a moon god- Morey
The distortion of the works of Caesar Farah to somehow prove Allah is the moon god- Morey

Essentially, Morey (and those who derived their works off him) are playing on the assumption that the average person would go "Hurrrr durrrr, the symbol of Islam is the moon, so they must worship the moon!"
Thankfully, the average person is not an idiot.

Since you seem to enjoy pre-emptive lists of FACTS as a method to stem discussion, here is a nice, conclusive one:

1. The word "Allah" is linked historically, etymologically and linguistically to the semitic term for their deity. Heck, ask ANY Hebrew speaker. Even dontreally (haven't seen him around lately) who is viruently anti-islamic admits that it share the same root as El/Elah/Elohim.
   
2. The islamic scriptures strongly condemn worshiping the moon or the sun or the stars (or even ascribing any godlike attributes to them), or anything that isn't the "One True God".
   
3. Islamic scriptural sources as well as other contemporary sources firmly and undeniably show that Hubal and Baal and the moon god and Allah were not considered the same.
   
4. Heck, it is not even relevant to this topic, but it is also conclusively shown that despite whatever 19th century orientalists may have theorised, there is absolutely no evidence that Hubal was a moon-god (the moon god at the time of Muhammad was Wadd).
   
5. Islam as a religion has no "symbol". No symbol was every mentioned or used by Muhammad or his followers. The turks coopted the symbol of the crescent moon from the Byzantines and used it as a symbol of their empire, which included much of the Islamic world (including Mecca) at one point.
   

I've done an entire thread on this topic, so I know my stuff. If anyone wishes to go on about "it is already established" "people already proved it" "it is common knowledge" "it has been mentioned several times already" about Allah being a moon god, I'll thank you for providing references- and not from outdated and disproved "historians" like Julius Wellhausen (awesome Bible scholar, I'm sure, but not really an authority on Arabia), Ditlef Nielsen (who simply made up the connection to fit his worldwide 'Astral Trinity' theory) or Hugo Winckler (who was simply parroting Nielsen's claims). If it is such a FACT, then there'd be modern scholars who say so.

originally posted by: babloyi
but if you're talking about Allah being a moon god, or Allah being the same as Hubal today, you got it from Morey's work

Never heard of him until this past week when Skorpion apparently discovered that he can try blame everything on the guy while he's engaging in the usual deflection. People have noticed that Muslims bow down to a meteorite for hundreds of years. Whoever the Morey fella is, he didn't make it up and people were capable of observing that fact without Morey pointing it out.


Now as for the topic of this thread that Skorpion posted .... again ....

THERE IS NO KAABA - BIBLE CONNECTION.
The information was given on the first page.
All your Kaaba-bible connection notions have been disproven.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Islam has its own scriptures.. and corrects the mistakes of Jews AND Christians.

- The Jews and Christian scriptures didn't make 'mistakes to be corrected'.

christians insist the jews got their own books wrong because they dont 'see' things like trinity and the mangod jesus. Jews insist christians are misreading jewish books and have organized to counter christian missionaries. Two peoples with the same books but contradictory ideas about God cant both be right.oh wait,you dont even respect the prophets revered by Jews and christians.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: babloyi
but if you're talking about Allah being a moon god, or Allah being the same as Hubal today, you got it from Morey's work

Never heard of him until this past week when Skorpion apparently discovered that he can try blame everything on the guy while he's engaging in the usual deflection. People have noticed that Muslims bow down to a meteorite for hundreds of years. Whoever the Morey fella is, he didn't make it up and people were capable of observing that fact without Morey pointing it out.


Now as for the topic of this thread that Skorpion posted .... again ....

THERE IS NO KAABA - BIBLE CONNECTION.
The information was given on the first page.
All your Kaaba-bible connection notions have been disproven.

the 'information' is from a hack with fake degrees. Therefore its invalid and can be safely dismissed as a hoax.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
the 'information' is from a hack with fake degrees. Therefore its invalid and can be safely dismissed as a hoax.

Again ...
1 - The information I posted on page one did not come from your Morey fella.
2 - The questions I asked didn't get prompted from your Morey fella.
3 - Total deflection attempt on your part. Fail.

There is no Kabba/Mecca connection to the bible. None. Nada.
It's all wishful thinking on your part. And, yet another, attempt
of Islam to try to gain legitimacy by grabbing onto older and more
ingrained religions.

No connection. Too bad. So sad.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Two peoples with the same books but contradictory ideas about God cant both be right.

1 - The Jews have the OT books without the NT books. So they don't have the same books. Therefore the interpretations will be different. That's not 'mistakes to be corrected'. That's interpretation and the fact that they don't have the same materials.

2 - Mass murdering thief muhammad had NO CLUE about what is correct and what isn't .... and he just tossed his own interpretation onto the two that were existing. He was in no position to 'correct' anyone. He's the one that needs correcting. (and I"m sure that, in the afterlife, he's getting his 'correction'.)

originally posted by: FlyersFan
People have noticed that Muslims bow down to a meteorite for hundreds of years. Whoever the Morey fella is, he didn't make it up and people were capable of observing that fact without Morey pointing it out.

But then by that logic, christians worship a torture and execution device.

a reply to: FlyersFan

1 - The information I posted on page one did not come from your Morey fella.

Robert Morey is the guy who originally concocted the ridiculous Islam=pagan theory, which has ever since been parroted by everybody from Chick Tract writers to "Christian" south park fans.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
to "Christian" south park fans.

Grow up ..... dude you are a sharia Muslim with a CHAOS avatar. Wanna talk about that? My South Park avatar is fine. Henrietta is a GOTH. It's a full cross she wears, not an upside down one as you have tried to insinuate.

Stop deflecting. Your Kaaba/Bible connection has failed. Accept it and move on.