How to bend space?

Seems like since matter causes space to warp that we should be able to warp space with energy? Maybe even use light? Anyone know if they have done experiments with energy and or light in an attempt to manipulate space/time?

If space effects matter and light shouldn't the opposite be true? If so shouldn't they be able to use energy or light to warp space in a way to propel a spacecraft?

a reply to: Xeven

You'd have to ask a third stage Guild Navigator or better
Solar sails cant bend space, but photons do propel them. Im sure someone is working on something somewhere. Science.

Gravity bends space. For your Do it yourselfer I would recommend some vice grips or heavy duty pliers.

You " bend " light

"Space" is one of the most poorly scientifically defined concepts. There's a Lot attributed to those three dimensions which could honestly be called conjecture or speculation (hypothesis, theory, and law falling far short of the mark).

a reply to: Xeven

I get what you are saying and I think I have a concept you might want to look at.
It is called an Alcubierre Drive. It works by using energy to generate negative mass and compress space/time in front of the object it is propelling and expand space/time behind it. This causes an instant leap across a large distance of space without the usual corresponding issue of local time dilation. It is a better case scenario for reasonable interstellar travel than generic FTL drives.



en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Snarl

Thank you. I liked that. We are so limited in our understanding of the greater cosmos. Big minds find that harder to address. They must reach scientific conclusions. Otherwise its not really science, right?

Don't add any parallel realities to the mix either. It puts things back to zero.

Yo, OP: There was an account of an encounter with a UFO in Australia, I think it was. Some guy driving a pickem' up truck said as he approached an "object" at night on the side of the road his headlight beams actually bent towards it.

Thats some gravity well. Surely a clue to how they transverse time and space seemingly without needing too much fuel. My guess is that kind of technology requires something on the order of a trapped singularity and the ability to direct its energy outside containment…

WoW

a reply to: Xeven

Light (and all energy) does warp spacetime in the same way matter does, but the effect is much too small to be of any use.

a reply to: intrptr

So your Ocker trucker saw a black hole by the side of the road -- it was deep enough to suck light into it, but somehow didn't eat the trucker, Australia or planet Earth?

Care to explain what part of that story makes you believe it?

Those big minds, eh? Never trust 'em, that's my advice to the mentally challenged.

a reply to: Astyanax

Care to explain what part of that story makes you believe it?

To you? Why would I? Your avatar mood reads "Mind Firmly Closed". Is that why you come to conspiracy websites, to close minds?

What are you even doing here?

a reply to: Astyanax

Well, even with a layman's knowledge, I'd be skeptical of anyone
positing a gravity field strong enough to bend light without affecting
other matter in the area.

But we are talking about concepts we don't understand yet. Who's
to say what type of an affect a gravity drive vehicle may have on
a photon of light or a bit of matter.

I've always been keen on the idea that if aliens transverse the
galaxy or universe they would do so by harnessing the gravitational
force in some way we would not understand.

But I also thought that Einstein was arrogant when he stated that
the SOL was the ultimate speed in the universe...I mean if he was right
we could never, ever, hope to visit even our nearest galaxy Andromeda...
that is until it crashes it us anyway....

a reply to: intrptr

What are you even doing here?

Right now, I'm asking you a question you don't have an answer for.

More generally, I am merely a humble footsoldier in the battle against ignorance, obscurantism and superstition.

There. I've answered your question. Now answer mine, if you can.

a reply to: rival

we are talking about concepts we don't understand yet.

Forgive me, but we are talking about fairytales. No Australian truck driver ever saw the headlights of his truck bend towards an object by the side of the road — not unless he was so inebriated that straight lines looked curved to him. The whole thing is just a lie made up by someone who wanted to see what ridiculous things he could make people believe.

As is often said in my former profession, 'nobody ever went bankrupt underestimating the intelligence of the public.'

The truth or falsity of scientific theories is not established by how much we'd like them to be true.

a reply to: Xeven


Earth is a big cage. We get drip fed the hi-tech scraps.
What you are describing is in use already.

a reply to: Astyanax

Right now, I'm asking you a question you don't have an answer for.

You're right. I wasn't there either. Neither were you…

Aussie UFO case

But if your noodle is firmly closed then I am sure it will remain so, regardless.

You can bend space with a vacuum. A strong vacuum actually warps the fabric of space-time. It also causes ether energy to condense or logjam. With an added catalyst, this yields what is known as Zero-Point Energy. Think of it like dispersed of food coloring (space energy) being condensed back into a single drop.

A reply to: Astyanax

You're right. I wasn't there either. Neither were you.

Yes, and the probability of being right is overwhelmingly mine.

What you enthusiastic fellows never seem to realise is that life is short and there is a lot to do. Most of us won't bother considering a possibility unless there's a reasonable chance it's true. Other folk like to fritter away their time, I suppose, mulling implausibilities. That story of yours has a snowball's chance in Hell of being true, so why should I waste time on it?

a reply to: Astyanax

That story of yours has a snowball's chance in Hell of being true, so why should I waste time on it?

We're only having this useless conversation because you responded to me in the first place. Its not my story, by the way, just a dash of parallel from history for the OP.

Now answer my question. What are you doing here?

a reply to: XevenHarold "Sonny" White of Eagle works lab JPL NASA is currently performing experiments to detect any space warp from applied magnetic and electrical fields. his detection efforts hinge around split laser beam interferometry (a warp would create an undeniable interference pattern if one of the beams is distorted by passing through a warped region of space) last time he spoke publicly he had preliminary small encouraging results but felt he needed to improve his set up in order to get an acceptable sigma figure for such an extraordinary claim. so towards that goal he had switched to a more sensitve interferometry apparatus and was working to build a stronger test article. since he was not familiar with the new interferometry apparatus and it's operation he was receiving assistance and tutoring from a colleague in another lab.
even if he gets positive results that are fit to publish we would still be decades away from any propulsion application because a tiny warp effect does not necessarily scale up easily and even allowing such scaling; getting the warp to move around in space and carry a space ship with it would be a separate problem.

i do not think it will come as a surprise if Dr White's experiment produces positive results. we already know mass and energy warp space. so there will be an effect even if tiny for any matter or energy. what he is doing though is trying to prove a microwarp effect from energizing a special electronic device. again it's just common sense that there should be such an effect. but his experiment if successful will capture and demonstrate it irrefutably such that we won't argue whether we can at least produce a dinky warp on demand anymore. instead we'll argue about whether it can be scaled up with our technology or foreseeable technological development to the point we can use it for something.

the main question should be just how much energy is needed and can we produce that energy and make machines that can contain that energy without blowing apart or turning to plasma. currently it is estimated initiating a warp sufficient to drive a ten meter spherical space ship would require the energy from converting the mass of the voyager probe to energy.

Dr White believes the energy requirements can be reduced further by using special geometries to shape the warp field and by using an oscillating wave form to lower the permitivity (resistance to deformation) of space around the space ship. he used these techniques to arrive at his current energy estimate but says he did not carry out his work on that to it's ultimate conclusion but stopped when he had a defensible amount of energy and other things to get his figures. that's a relative term though because the energy required is still many times more than the power of all the nuclear weapons on earth at the height of the cold war going off at once.

a reply to: Xeven
Prof mallet from uni of Connecticut has been on this bandwagon since I think 2004 or 2006
www.youtube.com...