Climate Change Solution

Climate Change policy suffers from a credibility problem. It might not be as much the credibility of scientific reports as it is the credibility of the individuals involved... namely politicians on an election year. You can dog on the Climate Change policy all you want. This post isn't about the policy, its about finding the solution to a problem. You're problem solvers right?

Lets say for instance that the Climate Change problem is genuine. At the end of the day, what's the real solution to the problem?

The Problem: Elevated Levels of Carbon Dioxide

Source of Problem: Too numerous to name here, but there are plenty of sources (exhaust, cow farts, etc.).

The Solution: Everybody plant a bunch of trees! I'm not kidding.

Thinking back to high school science... (keeping it simple here so that the politicians might understand it too) trees absorb carbon dioxide and in turn produce oxygen. Why couldn't we give nature a shot at fixing the problem?

Maybe the problem has been the destruction of trees all over the world over the years (especially in the Amazon). Maybe we should help to plant what has been lost. This place would certainly look a lot better with more trees.

Important note: I do not believe that we should stop harvesting trees (economicsustainability reasons). I just believe that maybe we need to be replacing them twice as fast as we're harvesting them.

ATS'ers, what say ye? Fire up the ole thinkers! What's the real solution?

a reply to: Bloomoon

I don't mean anything inflammatory, but nobody can stop the precession of the Equinox...the Northern Hemisphere will get warmer no matter what as a result of the 24 degree tilt that takes place every 26k years period.astro.wsu.edu...

Trees, wetlands, prairies, are all needed and much much more but the fact is roads and houses are reflecting so much heat back into the ionosphere that that is one major contributor to storms. Your car, or truck, or farting cows cannot do the half of what tilting the Northern Hemisphere 24 degrees "closer" to the sun will. We gain 1100 or so square miles of temperate zone in the northern hemisphere each year.

You WILL never stop the climate from changing, for Christ's sake. It is changing but you wont have anything to do to stop it.

Solutions-just brainstorming but...

1. Increased fuel economy standards in all new manufactured cars.
2. Give the EPA (In America but whatever agency equates in your country) more resources and more teeth and tougher laws on polluters. Hiring 10,000 more personnel would actually be a real job creator and economic boost. real stimulus.
3. Government as mediator or some simple laws to make it easier for homeowners and businesses to install solar panels and get credit for power sent back to the grid.
4. Make it easier for new car companies to operate and put better cars to market. Tesla for one example but everyone is as hard headed as Elon and many small companies never make it to market with these new technologies.
5. Hemp/ Not pot as a tree pulp alternative for our paper needs. Cheaper, faster growth, better for the environment.
6. Make it easy for private non-profits like Greenpeace and Sierra Club and others to plant new trees on deforested land.
8. Bigger Tax Credits for going green, whatever that means. Like LEED-put strict standard and get people motivated.
9. tough restrictions on Coal burning power plants.
10. Get some better models of rising sea levels and take some logical cost effective steps. If we get a few models that show the SouthWest part of New Orleans could be underwater in 15 years, then don't approve new construction there and give land development companies incentives to build in better spots.

Just 10 without even thinking about it and Look I never once mentioned Carbon Credits.. Jesus!

a reply to: BlueJacket

You missed the point of the thread. We're talking about Man Made Global Warming, CO2 emissions and pollution, rising sea levels, that sort of thing and what we can do about it.

There is no doubt in my mind that deforestation has a role in the higher co2 levels.

A mix of natural and human release of co2 combined with the lack of plantlife makes it hard for nature to process the co2.

I hear a lot members come with the "but co2 has been high before in the planets historie therefore it cant be so bad", and yes that is true but they seem to forget that forest and plantlife was covering much more ground back then before humans started with deforestation and clearing of land for agriculture.

It could help with some more trees but i think it would be a massive job or impossible in a short time to recreate what we have destroyed.

Here is a nice document explaining the deforestation and clearing of land, plus the release and traping of heat from various human activity.

The Effect of Localized Man-Made Heat and Moisture Sources in Mesoscale Weather Modification

a reply to: amazing

Not really, as the "man-made" gobal warming MODELS are using data that is coming from astro-physics. Cities need to be over grown with trees, roads and highways need to go away because of thermal mass that is created. The point is, there are too many people and our technology and infrastructure do not support what is being asked.

Look Im all for changing "man-made" pollution but what you cant see and choose not to alter by your consumer choices is far more detrimental than most things ever mentioned. What really needs to be understood is what is happening without our influence and HOW are we going to mitigate that?

Cause man made stuff amounts to diddly next to what the Earth and the Sun are doing on their own.

a reply to: Mianeye
I do entirely agree with your deforestation being a huge issue and like roads, highways buildings, all the concrete and steel, open mowed fields etc...but corporatism and rampant consumerism drives that, are you folks going to give up your computers, or cell phones, every one of them and all the minerals and fuels going into building them to accomplish this? I am all for it as I have very self dependent habits, but doing so would diminish the worlds population by some 75% under the present paradigm.

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: Bloomoon

I don't mean anything inflammatory, but nobody can stop the precession of the Equinox...the Northern Hemisphere will get warmer no matter what as a result of the 24 degree tilt that takes place every 26k years period.astro.wsu.edu...

Trees, wetlands, prairies, are all needed and much much more but the fact is roads and houses are reflecting so much heat back into the ionosphere that that is one major contributor to storms. Your car, or truck, or farting cows cannot do the half of what tilting the Northern Hemisphere 24 degrees "closer" to the sun will. We gain 1100 or so square miles of temperate zone in the northern hemisphere each year.

You WILL never stop the climate from changing, for Christ's sake. It is changing but you wont have anything to do to stop it.

I didn't take it as inflammatory. In fact, I welcome the discussion. I enjoyed your viewpoint.

Pavement under the shade isn't so bad. *chuckle*

Thank you for making the case that the governments can't change anything about it either.

a reply to: Bloomoon
I appreciate your open mind friend. I guess my whole point reduced is this: we need to mitigate what we cant control, because that, my friend is happening no matter what.

To do nothing, is the wrong course.

There is still plenty that we can do. In essence, we're really talking about how to mitigate pollution and how to plant more trees or 'eat' more CO2 and if sea levels do rise-what we can do and if our crop producing abilities degrade what can we do. There is so much we can do, it's not even funny.

The war in Iraq alone as cost us at minimum $1.7 trillion that's without benefits added in. Think of all the tax credits for going green, all the desalinization plants for drinkable water around the word, the solar energy fields we could have built, the new EPA inspectors we could have hired and the trees replanted and the new sea walls we could have built.

We can still do this.

a reply to: BlueJacket

If we could all agree and participate on shuting down, yes i would happily contribute, i am cotributing now by only haveing a minimal of electrical aparatus turned on which boils down to my laptop and fridge, i only use light when i move around my apartment or cooking, short showers, and mostly walking to my destination.

It's not enough but it's a small contribution.

The problem is we should all do stuff like that, but it would take a God to convince people to do it.

a reply to: Bloomoon

There isn't any single solution or magic bullet but there are many solutions that can work in conjunction with each other.

Viable petrol solution at the gas pump

Technology has given us many alternatives to our current standard some better some worse, but almost all will require a concerted effort on our part and the PTB.

The link I provided outlines one such solution that would require an investment, but would yield a fuel alternative at the pump that would actually remove co2 from the atmosphere and if done in conjunction with a cheap energy source such as geothermal would lower our fuel costs as well however this would upset the PTB such as the petroleum industry so until things get much worse I expect such things will not get much consideration.

There are solutions but will people listen?

Forgive my cynicism, but there will be no solution with politicians in the middle of the issue. You could have a 100% fool-proof solution and politicians will find a way to muck it up, every-single-time.

a reply to: amazing

BTW, do you have any idea how much fuel and pollution goes into making electric cars, solar panels, the machinery that this society would employ do to all of the things you mention simply perpetuates the problem. Mass solar panels actually kill wildlife and heat the ionosphere dramatically. You cant fix a problem by employing the same medium to "fix" it. You still require mass roads and infrastructure, Im afraid the point is missed in trying to maintain the status quo with a different color of the same thing...dont even get me started on batteries.

Make some of the practices of consumerism illegal. Make things to last a lifetime. Face it, the Amish are doing a fine job. We can't have everything that we want, the bar keeps raising every time we do.

a reply to: six67seven

Amen! That's the greatest prevailing problem for sure.
2nd

a reply to: rickymouse

Agreed, honestly thats the closest I have come to an answer as well.

a reply to: rickymouse

That is part of the solution but we all know what happens when people get less freedom from politicians making the decision to restrict or illegilize

originally posted by: rickymouse
Make some of the practices of consumerism illegal. Make things to last a lifetime. Face it, the Amish are doing a fine job. We can't have everything that we want, the bar keeps raising every time we do.

Awesome Post

Regards, Iwinder

originally posted by: BlueJacket
a reply to: amazing

BTW, do you have any idea how much fuel and pollution goes into making electric cars, solar panels, the machinery that this society would employ do to all of the things you mention simply perpetuates the problem. Mass solar panels actually kill wildlife and heat the ionosphere dramatically. You cant fix a problem by employing the same medium to "fix" it. You still require mass roads and infrastructure, Im afraid the point is missed in trying to maintain the status quo with a different color of the same thing...dont even get me started on batteries.

Reply, Appreciated. This is the Debate we should be having and this is the Data we need.