fornicator

I bet a vast majority of the people on this forum fornicate. In my country, a Western country, pretty much everyone fornicates. Even the Muslim immigrants, except a few of the most pious or whatever of them.

Do you fornicate?

Do you believe it is spiritually unhealthy?

Do you believe marriage only is a piece of paper or is there more to it?

This is on wikipedia:

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός gnostikos, "learned", from γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) describes a collection of ancient religions that taught that people should shun the material world created by the demiurge and embrace the spiritual world.[1] Gnostic ideas influenced many ancient religions[2] that teach that gnosis (variously interpreted as knowledge, enlightenment, salvation, emancipation or 'oneness with God') may be reached by practicing philanthropy to the point of personal poverty, sexual abstinence (as far as possible for hearers, completely for initiates) and diligently searching for wisdom by helping others.[3] However, practices varied among those who were Gnostic.

"sexual abstinence (as far as possible for hearers, completely for initiates)"

Would you sacrifice sex to be a Gnostic initiate in this day and age? Sometimes I wonder if I am a Gnostic initiate without having formally gone through some rituals or anything like that and without knowing it.

I find it interesting and curious that on gnosticteachings.org they talk quite a lot about "transmuting sexual energy", whatever that means. The site is based on the teachings of Samael Aun Weor, and it seems to not be in favor of sexual abstinence or hermitship but rather to have a sexual partner.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399660946&sr=8-1&keywords=samael+aun+ weor+sex

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1399660946&sr=8-2&keywords=samael+aun+weor+sex

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1399660946&sr=8-3&keywords=samael+aun+weor+sex

I personally do have sexual desire but I am pretty much a hermit. I probably have Asperger's so that might be why I'm pretty much a hermit. I have only had sex once even though I'm almost thirty. Jesus had sex 0 times though. I have been wondering if I should keep trying to find a woman or if I should be a hermit for the rest of my life. The vision of my elderliness without anyone that cares about me scares me. I'll probably be poor too so whatever.

One thing that I find very interesting in this context is conditioning. Anyone who's read Brave New World knows what I'm talking about. I have no idea which of my thoughts and ideas are a result of conditioning of various kinds, maybe all. Maybe I don't even have free will. And how much of the thoughts and ideas that you might post in this thread are a result of conditioning?

Nevermind

After having lost the love of my life to a sneaky low life at an early age I made a personal decision to never interfere with someone in an existing relationship and to this day I haven't so Im not an adulterer but yes I am a fornicator.

a reply to: introspectionist

You know, that's the problem with some religions, they make you feel GUILTY about your most basic human requirements and desires.

Like it's bad to have consensual, healthy sex for any reason.

I would suggest you spread your wings my friend and find true happiness with a partner, or many, which ever floats your boat I suppose.

You might just be a-sexual if you don't feel any kind of need to have sex. But methinks, since you've seem to have pondered it quite a bit, that there's something missing in your life.

~Tenth

I hope you don't have to have a sexual partner to be a Gnostic initiate or to attain liberation or enlightenment. On gnosticteachings.org it sounds as if their view is that you can do a lot of work alone, but it's preferable to have a sexual partner or you might not be able to walk all the way without a sexual partner. That has made me suspicious of that site. For me that site is just one of many sources of information in my truth seeking. And since I'm already truth seeking that probably makes me a Gnostic initiate by definition.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: introspectionistI would suggest you spread your wings my friend and find true happiness with a partner, or many, which ever floats your boat I suppose.

Since I have Asperger's it's not as easy as simply spreading my wings. I do consider struggle, suffering, loneliness, rejection, depression etc. blessings though. Which is part of why I wonder if I even should try to get a partner, or if I really want it, even though I feel that way. Not sure if I should get a girlfriend or if marriage is the only spiritually healthy choice. As for the "or many" part, that's where my reflection upon conditioning comes in. Is it really spiritually healthy to "sleep around"? And I see what you mean about religion. But I don't see why you can't be religious and monogamous, for example Muslim, today and have as much sex as you please with your spouse, with contraceptive. Some religions might be against contraceptives though and against having sex if it's not to procreate.

a reply to: introspectionist

Since I have Asperger's

it's only a disability if you allow it to be my friend. I know plenty of close friends who have Asperger's who are highly intelligent, highly functional and highly successful in life.

Not sure if I should get a girlfriend or if marriage is the only spiritually healthy choice.

Marriage didn't exist until the just a few thousand years ago. Spirituality has been here a lot longer than ANY of the religions that try and make you feel bad for sex.

Those doctrines were put in place to control people and to spread the number of members of the church at any given time.

Is it really spiritually healthy to "sleep around"?

The most important thing I can stress about this is that you do not, under any circumstances, allow somebody else to define your personal spirituality.

I'm a gay man, who raised 4 children in a same sex marriage, who had a VERY colorful past. My God doesn't care about any of that. He cares if I'm a good person. I don't need any preacher or book to tell me otherwise, and neither do you.

Don't be so quick to apply labels to yourself and accept some thousand year old doctrine as the truth, unless in your heart you feel it's whats' right.

~Tenth

We all do what's right for us. I'm one who doesn't think marriage is needed. It's just a slip of paper after all. As for people enjoying the intimacies of sex with others, they do what's right for them. I personally could leave sex entirely. It does zero for me so I have had no issue not having any since 2002. I have no craving for it, period. It's a waste of time where I could be doing other things - but I suppose if hte person I'm with wants it, and I am in a long ship with them, I'll give it up to keep them happy, yanno? It goes a 2 way street. Unfortunately sex for me has always and will always be a one way street; it is only for the other persons pleasure. Being on the asexual prism, I have a very hard time understanding how people get pleasure from the deed but I know that it feels good for folks, else they'd not do it so much. I don't get why the places we urinate from are the pleasure areas and how we put those parts into anothers body (if female and male). It's kinda squicky. Yeah yeah those of us on the asexual prism seem odd and broken to normal sexuals. You dont get how we dont like sex, we don't get why you like sex. I Wish I was on the like aspect. Oh how I wish. But I'm not. I've had more than enough partners from all walks of life since I became 'having sex' at 19 (Im 41 now) and not once was it mind blowing or amazing or wonderful. I just did it because 'it's what people do'. I hate that aspect of me

a reply to: khnum

Have that experience, but add two toddlers. That's MY world.

Also.. met a lovely lady from Espana recently...

I have my theories about liberalism that I could write a whole other thread about. Such as sexual liberation, feminism and pretty much everything that deviates from something like a strictly Muslim society. My country is about as far in that opposite direction as you can go I suppose, Sweden. I'm not sure if this Brave New World came about by planning or if it is a natural development. It could be something else too, I don't know what, but I mean something like "as above so below" or any number of possibilities.

My hypothesis is that the Jews (yes them again) were behind communism, and the stretch from there is not so far to where my ideas lead. I believe the primary forces that drive the process are the desires of Gentiles, and the Jews channel them. The desires and fears in humans follow a pattern along the spiritual evolution. And these desires and fears are channeled for the purpose of enlightening humanity spiritually. This is what the Matrix is about. The Gentiles are batteries in the machine world, they themselves build it. They build their own prison but they don't see it until the trap is getting really tight. I liken this to a Chinese finger trap. The desires and fears of humanity are the fingers pulling outward and the finger trap is the oppressive New World Order pressing down on you. This might be as above so below. My own subconscious projected into my outer world and the bigger my ego grows the darker and more oppressive my outer world. This is what enlightens me. I think it might be that Jews further policies that make this process go faster, such as communism and feminism. But then it's not as above so below, or is it. I have no idea about anything. But I do think that evil is enlightenment.



The reason I mentioned this here is because of the conditioning related to sexual attitudes. It seems to be similar in much of the Western world. And I think that people are very shallow, unspiritual, and also a lot of people are depressed and lonely. Here I could insert a whole section about psychiatry, mind control, conformity, Asperger's etc. but maybe that's drifting off topic. Anyway my point is that this "evil" seems to lead to depressive, lonely, pointless lives. Mental problems are sky rocketing. As are the sales of anti-depressant pills. But I think that this is an inevitable development of society. And the misery then ultimately gives rise to a spiritual desire. What I find very interesting is what are the Muslim immigrants in this context? And for what reason do the politicians let them in in big numbers? I think that even if agents have low desires such as greed and even though they are building the machine world/the matrix, that's all good because the machine world/the matrix is what awakens Neo. Jews try to speed up the process. Muslims think the process is stoppable and hate the Jews for "spreading corruption in the land". But are the Muslims like children and the Jews like their parents? Which souls are older or have come the furthest in the spiritual evolution?

Most Jews seem to be left wing so have you wondered why? Karl Marx said his supporters in the West were "useful idiots". Why don't the Jews themselves become affected by the darkness and the oppression, or do they? The search continues...

I think you should master your desires (all of them) rather than let them master you. There isn't anything necessarily wrong per se with your base desires and their expression, but like anything, when you let them get out of control, bad things happen to you. Too much desire for food leads to you being fat, for example. Too much desire for material things leads to you being a selfish, greedy @ss. Similarly, when you don't control your sexual desires, there are also bad things that happen to you - you greatly increase your risk of disease, you greatly increase your risk of uncomfortable, even painful emotional drama with people you really don't want to be entangled, you greatly increase your chances of accidentally creating a pregnancy again with someone you'd rather not be involved with.

Marriage (or at least your permanent partner) was intended to be that safe outlet for your sexual desires. Because while having one loyal partner won't reduce the chance of pregnancy, it can reduce the risks of awkward entanglements and diseases.

But I understand that it represents an ideal that many cannot or will not hold themselves to, so at the very least look at the first stuff I wrote about why it's so very important to master yourself rather than being mastered. Then, you can be sure that before you do indulge, it's because you choose to and not because you're acting on base impulse alone, getting into a situation that's ill-advised and possibly dangerous for you.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: introspectionist

Since I have Asperger's

it's only a disability if you allow it to be my friend. I know plenty of close friends who have Asperger's who are highly intelligent, highly functional and highly successful in life.

Long story but...

I think Asperger's is a blessing. (if I have it which is not 100% sure since I never got diagnosed but the psychiatrist said he thought I had it) I had a friend who had Asperger's and he was quite different from me, many friends and girlfriends, extrovert. Not sure at all why he and I would have the same diagnosis. But I guess it's a spectrum within Asperger's. As for "it's only a disability if you allow it to be" I think that's a truth with modifications. The "disorder" might not be the same for everyone but it's very real, not just made of air. It's like living in another dimension. I wouldn't want to trade places and be neurotypical, extrovert, popular, fit in, be like others or any of those things that I am not.

When I read my own posts and the replies I come to think of these words by Terence McKenna. Some have speculated that he was either a useful idiot or willingly part of a conspiracy (for whatever reason).

youtu.be...

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I'm happy for you that you lived/live a happy life under liberalism. As you might guess from my post here introspectionist my experience of liberalism is quite different. Also see this: introspectionist

a reply to: sarra1833

I respect all you said and found it so remarkable. You are like a living saint or the next step on evolution of "womankind".

But something tells me maybe you never found the right person that can take you to a state of pleasure that you could reach.

Again, all I said is with respect to your person and your opinion.

Conclusion drawn so far: keep trying to get experience from outside internet forums and from as diverse settings as possible. I already joined a Muslim group and quit so that was something.

Sex is a pleasure, And like all pleasures in life, I think moderation is key for maximum success.
having sex daily with a partner will make it routine and unremarkable comparatively to a couple nights a week and a nice buildup.
you will never feel closer to a person than during sex.

As far as needing a piece of paper before sex...naa, its like needing a certificate before eating a nice meal..unnecessary step, but, sex is better with a long term partner than from a 1 nighter...just a familiar component that allows personal tastes to be learned and fulfilled.

Life actually doesn't have many pleasures overall. our senses give some here and there and should not be ignored. there are biological reasons your brain tingles at specific things, be it eating, seeing beautiful things, feeling nice, etc...so, with control over yourself, partake in lifes fleeting temporary moments of bliss.

originally posted by: sarra1833
and not once was it mind blowing or amazing or wonderful. I just did it because 'it's what people do'. I hate that aspect of me

Psychological barrier issue. You should get it looked into. There is a reason your brain is refusing to interpret the sensations coming from your nerve endings in proper context.
a healthy libido is a good thing for a person to have overall. keeps ya young at heart and interested in the world. Imagine if everyone felt like you did...the civilization would be doomed.

Not saying you must want to breed...but its just like..if you heard someone say all food tastes like cardboard to them and they don't understand why people enjoy eating...you would feel compelled to try and find out the root of this issue...is it a psychological thing, or some physical issue going on...either way, they seem to be missing out on something that cannot be truly described unless..you can taste to begin with.

a reply to: sarra1833

Wanna hear a joke? "I never felt the need to get to know a-sexual people". (Smile)

Seriously though, there are many highly sexual people who, after 20 or so adult years of being that way, have grown to hate themselves for being that way. A part of them has matured into realizing that there is more to life than sex, but they have conditioned themselves for so long to have as much of it as they can, they feel that this is the way they will always be. It turns into a sort of hobby that gets in the way of personal growth.

So I hope you're only half serious when you say you "hate" yourself for being the way you are. It's only sex, it's only a big deal if a person makes it into one.

My marriage is so wonderful and rewarding for me, I want everyone to experience it.

If you want to know if you should put forth the effort to find a mate? Absolutely. Gnostic initiate or not, the greater truth is that you cannot have one without other. To abstain is not wrong, or bad. It may provide insights that you need. But to make yourself "best" and happy, you need a mate.

I have heard it said that a successful human is one who has grandchildren. That is something to ponder, certainly. But I think that would be more about the animal human, not the consciousness.

The world is hard. My job might be killing me a little bit at a time, im not quite sure. Everyday I face enormous challenge, and it has made my personality change rapidly enough that I consciously notice it (not in bad ways....but I realize I don't smile or make small talk with people any more without concerted effort). When I finally get done at the end of the day, all I want to is to be in her arms, and her in mine, just being there together. I live for it. Over 20 years of this is more than any good man deserves in a lifetime. And everyone should get to experience it.

Don't do that to yourself. At least try. Go fill up your cup.