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Originally posted by alternateheaven
Too bad it wasnt possible to get the actual text of the bill rather than summaries by someone else, as I think alot of us would like to read through and see what all is there. Its definately messed up to construe information gathering as some evil inte-grab for foreign intelligence, almost insinuating that the goverment would prefer domestic ignorance. If the actual legislation is anywhere near as vague as summarized here then we are all in very very deep crap.
Protection from what? Are you sure that's the goal, or is that just something Bush said? Hitler's stated goals were many, none of which was "rule the world", at least not until it was too late.
Hitler used many groups (like the Jews) that he blamed all the country's problems on, and said they are a threat and must be eliminated, which means he needs the "powers" to do it. He used terrorism as a pretext just as we do now. No one dared question him and ask for proof and evidence - they just assumed he wanted what's "best" for the people, to protect the people, so they believed him and let him do what he said "needed to be done". Well, you know what happened then.
What these laws are doing, is simply giving power to our government agencies. The question is, are they going to use these powers just to protect us? Or will they use them to benefit themselves, and manipulate us? So far, throughout history and the present events, it has been a LOT of abuse/manipulation/lies, and very little actual "protection", especially if the enemy is contrived and imaginary to begin with.
Who says? What makes you think that 911 wasn't done BY our own government? And what makes you think that there even IS a threat that we need to be protected from? Or do you not ask those questions, but just assume that what the government says is right, because "they wouldn't lie to us" would they? Of course, you'd then have to forget that most things they ever say are blatant lies, which are proven to be lies many times over. So why would one assume that they wouldn't lie about something big like the whole terrorist threat, or that they wouldn't attack their own country to incite fear in everyone and have them support any illegal wars and clamp downs on our own freedoms that the government wants to do?
WHO do you think poses a threat to your children? And what makes you think that? But how is this different from the way it has always been? What changed?
This �Patriot� Act II would never fly in the Senate.
Originally posted by superstring
What? Liberals making up crap that is 100% false.....and what?....their blind followers belive them....imagine that.
I swear, you can tell a liberal anything, and they will believe it....as long as it is against the right.
Originally posted by esdad71
Sorry, but 9/11 was not our governments doing, it was a terror attack on our soil. When did Bush say he wanted to rule the world?
Hitler used many groups (like the Jews) that he blamed all the country's problems on, and said they are a threat and must be eliminated, which means he needs the "powers" to do it. He used terrorism as a pretext just as we do now. No one dared question him and ask for proof and evidence - they just assumed he wanted what's "best" for the people, to protect the people, so they believed him and let him do what he said "needed to be done". Well, you know what happened then.
What these laws are doing, is simply giving power to our government agencies. The question is, are they going to use these powers just to protect us? Or will they use them to benefit themselves, and manipulate us? So far, throughout history and the present events, it has been a LOT of abuse/manipulation/lies, and very little actual "protection", especially if the enemy is contrived and imaginary to begin with.
Uh, yes, power to keep us safe from outside threats. Are you so blinded by conspiracy you do not see how much other parts of the world want us dead, and will stop at nothing to accomplish it?
Where are the passengers of the planes that struck on 9/11? I never said the governemnt never lied to the nation, but I do not see where it applies here. Do you truly think there is NO threat of terrorsim in the US? That is very diluted thinking.
Why do you think our own government caused 9/11. What was to gain. Control of the nation? They already have that...
The people who scare me are members of Congress or others with your mind set that the my country is against me.
It is different as that we were attacked on our own continent, and not an island miles away as the Japanese did at Pearl Harbor. I do not beleive in the boogey man, and I do not go to bed each night thinking AQ will kill me by morning. I am a realist who feels that at any time we could be hit again......
Originally posted by esdad71
Thanks for the heads up on Northwoods, and I have read it. It was interesting and very scary that our country could have planned something like that. BUt it was just an idea, a think tank proposal of a way to enter a war, wasn't it if I remember correctly?
I feel that 9/11 was an attack against the US directly as a nation not just our government from the ISlamic rule that is in the middle east.
THey caught us with our pants done, because we were so full of ourselves we ignored the intelligence and felt it could never happen. well, it did...
If the Patriot Act gives my goverment the ability to investigate and arrest those who wish to harm me or my neighbor or a child in another state, than maybe some rights will need to be given up. I believe it is a trade off for not living in a war torn country and bieng able to buy my son nice gifts at Christmas and not worry about rocket attacks through my living room.
Hitler attacked and killed millions of people, in his own country even, and had a belief of a Aryan nation, a great race. This is not what is happening in America.
IF the Bush administration blamed 9/11 on all hte Blacks and native Americans in our country, and we began to round them all up and kill them, and then decided to hunt down the rest of the blacks and indians in the world, then we would have a analogy like HItlers attempt to conquer the world.