Texas cop shoots 93 year old woman to death- justified?

a reply to: imwilliam

There are plenty of videos and cases where an elderly person has murdered a fellow citizen, relative and/or police officers.

Not a women but here is a common one referenced in training.

a reply to: imwilliam

Well I, nor my co workers act that way. I have never had, nor would I ever cover for a fellow officer. So why should I be verbally abused and treated like garbage everyday?

They say a bad apple spoils the bunch. Well last time I checked we are human beings and not apples.

This is why I no longer want to comment on police threads. The posts usually go off topic as I try to convince people we are not all bad.

I am over it.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I appreciate you taking the time to look up and post the video. However, I wasn't questioning whether elderly people can and do kill people. My question/comment was in response to your statement that there are tons of studies and videos explaining about how pistols suck at stopping with one shot. I'm doubtful that lack of stopping power you reference applies to a woman of this age. The video doesn't really address that.

Look, I realize the officer was probably within his legal rights. Neither you and I were there, but we both know if she had pointed the gun at him, it would have been in his report. I think there was room for him to attempt something beyond what it's reported he did. Would there have been risks involved in trying to talk her down? Yes, but that's the job, or at least it used to be.

Well I, nor my co workers act that way. I have never had, nor would I ever cover for a fellow officer. So why should I be verbally abused and treated like garbage everyday?

If that's the case then I can't say that it's fair to you and you have my honest sympathy. There are some good police officers where I live. My brother is a cop, not in my area, but I'd like to think he's a good one, though I really couldn't say.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: crazyewok

I would argure that the 20 year old didn't deserve to get shot either, unless he pointed the gun AT the cop.
Age does matter, and so does intent. Did she really have intent to kill some one?
We can't control accidents and we shouldn't try to so hard to.

If she did fire a shot then this killing would have been justified.... But she didn't...
We have another person dead for what they MIGHT have done, not what they DID

ETA:

All what if that could have resulted in a innocent getting shot and killed.

How so when my first what if was what if she dropped the gun on the second warning? And I will add what if she dropped the gun after the third of fourth warning....
1 warning and then shoot seems VERY weak SOP to me

If they had waited until she fired a shot a innocent person could be dead and you would be whinning about why the cops did nothing.

You illegaly use a gun you take your life into your own hands.

a reply to: Sremmos80

You want the cop to wait until he has a bullet in his head before he can fire?

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: jburg6

She pulled a gun and threatened someone. She was waving it around, endangering any in the area. She didn't drop it when told to by the police. If those are are all facts, as the story states, this was justified. being old doesn't give one a pass to break the law, any more than being a teenager does.

...And the law is what exactly? Wave a gun around and you will die? You people are insane.

I say this all the time on here, American citizens will continue to be murdered by their own police force because there are so many of them who think that cops have a right to kill when they see fit.

Show me any country on this earth that is supposedly "free" and that allows its police force to execute people on the street.

I'm not usually one to say things like this but people who say this killing, and hundreds like it every year, are "justified" are either callous narcissists or in extreme denial about the state of their homeland.

We could go into what I would argue when that situation happens.
But that is not what happened. What happened was she got shot 5 times so that is what I will address. Feel free to PM me about the thread of the situation you described and I'll let you know my stance reply to: crazyewok

a reply to: InvisibleOwl

Ya cause that is what I said....
Please don't take what I say and try and sensationalize it.

a reply to: Sremmos80

But it is what you said. You clearly said cops should not shoot until shot at. Even at 93, she could have shot the cop in the head.

a reply to: InvisibleOwl

Yeah? Let the cops take a few casualties for a change? What is the ratio to cops shot verses civilians shot by cops? Cops are killing people all the time in the US, it's like a sport. And all the while people defend their right to murder.

Typical scenario: Cop: do what I tell you

Civillian: no response

Cop shoots to kill, usually multiple times.

People on ATS flock to say how the killing was justified.

a reply to: InvisibleOwl

She could also miss....
She could also hit him in the bullet proof vest that he wears, or the leg, or the arm.
A head shot is not the easiest shot in the world. Marines don't even practice that as the final shot in a kill shot drill. It is now two shots to the chest and 1 to the pelvic region cause you have a higher % hitting that then a head shot.
Yes I said that cops should have to wait to get shot at to shoot someone.
That is not saying they need to get shot in the head.

So again please don't sensationalize

Hero's don't shoot people because they are scared they will hurt them, that is what murders do

I say this all the time on here, American citizens will continue to be murdered by their own police force because there are so many of them who think that cops have a right to kill when they see fit.

QFT

Even shooting some one in the back and it's acceptable.

a reply to: seabhac-rua

One thing to add
Cop: He/She had something in her hand, something I thought to be a gun and was then in fear for my life so I opened fire

a reply to: Sremmos80

Good thing you're not a cop. You'd be dead in a situation like this. Leave the situational danger analysis to the professionals. Become a nurse. They need nice people like you. If you're brave enough. No disrespect to nurses.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: smithjustinb

And this is why cops can get away with this....

You really have no problem with a cop shooting a 90+ year old women 5 times??
How many times did he tell her to drop the gun? Is he sure she heard him?
Did she point the gun at anyone?
To say it was completly justified is a stretch, yes by the letter of the law it may have been. But it is not so black and white, or at least it shouldn't be....

I don't have the answers to your questions. I wasn't there. I didn't see it happen. All I know is what I'm told, and if it's true, then what happened was justified.

This talk about, if you don't want the cops to kill you then just get down on your face is BS

Those are your words. Not mine. I don't recommend anyone getting down on their face. I discourage that, but I encourage standing up for the full extent of your rights while obeying the law.

That is NOT the american way, cops should not have that type of power over people
THAT IS NOT THEIR JOB!!!

If it wasn't their job, then the person who called them wouldn't have called.

They are PEACE officers!!!!!

To protect and serve. Someone called because they needed protection. The officer served that request.

They ARE NOT SS soliders, well that is the way they are going, meant to make every one scared of them
You should never be scared of the police, where is the protecting and serving there??

Im not going to argue that there aren't bad cops in America who abuse their power and break the laws they were meant to enforce. I will condemn them heavily every chance I get. However, the officer in this case, if his story is true, is justified. Period. You're the one defending injustice here.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: InvisibleOwl

Ya cause that is what I said....
Please don't take what I say and try and sensationalize it.

Its definitely what you're implying.

You're defending the woman on the basis that the cop didn't know for sure if the woman would shoot him.

Given the uncertainty of the situation, would you be the one who waits to find out? I don't know if you're aware of this or not, but if it turned out that the woman, indeed,had the gall to shoot the cop, he wouldn't have found out anything, because he'd be dead. So, I gotta tell you, if you're one that would have waited to find out whether or not she was going to shoot, you're an idiot. If you want to leave your fate to chance, why don't you load a single round in a revolver, spin the cyliner, put the barrel against your head, and pull the trigger. You've got a 1 in 6 chance of dying. Those are good odds, no?

Drr drr drr.

I guess not only is justice blind, but also, in your case, injustice.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Let me be sure I understand what you're saying?

The cop isn't sure what the old lady is going to do, so he kills her.....just in case.

You've got to be kidding right?

If you're not kidding then you are up the creek as far as your morality and your humanity goes.

Again I say, the reason cops are shooting people to death all the time in the US is because of attitudes like yours.

Let me ask you, which makes you feel safer: a law enforcement officer or a criminal pointing a gun at you?

a reply to: jburg6

She grabbed a gun and threatened her nephew,

How strange to take her car keys but the nephew never removed her gun, someone at her age is senile would be incompetent to have a gun.

a reply to: Char-Lee

Her nephew obviously wanted her dead because he's the one who called the cops.

Think about it, they would either have shot her or beat her old ass to death, that's how the 5.0 roll.

Life is cheap in the US.

I've always had that hunch, it always comes across like that on telly.

And cases like this provide prima facie evidence to support that hunch.