USAF over New Zealand?

Early this morning I woke up to hear loud jets flying over the area I live in.

Could this be the USAF? New Zealand doesn't have fighter jets anymore, we sold ours a couple of years ago as they were getting too old.

Can someone tell me what I heard?

Naaaaaaaa, we didnt sell the Sky hawks. Helen Clark just decided they werent needed anymore and it was far better to stick em in mothballs and use the cash to buy a couple of Boeing 757s to use as her own personal jets. I think the Govt was thinking of selling them recently as mothballing was costing them to much, money better spent on revenue collecting speed cameras no doubt.

Where abouts in NZ are you?
I think we still have the Air Macci Trainer jets pretty sure it was them buzzing round Ohakea last time I went past at night in Oct.

Sorry,

But the Macchis went with the Skyhawks. Read there were very few takers for them....contenders Brazils Navy for thier carrier Sao Paulo (as spares to thier ex Israeli A-4s) and Argentina who operate a mess of them.

There were originally calls to aqquire them both for the RAN to continue fleet support duties, along with some of the RNZAF pilots and groundcrews to support them.....but as usual try talking sense to a politician....thier getting more like Helen everyday.

Isn't it nice she got herself some nice shiny new VIP planes with the spare change.....makes you sick doesnt it?

I had read the RNZAF and RNZN had been in the embarrassing position of contracting three warbirds and thier owners to do work up exercises with the RNZN frigates at one stage......ex RNZAF pilots and a Hawker Hunter FGA.9 a French Fouga Magister and an ex RNZAF BAe Strikemaster. The bizjets just dont make good substitiutes.....Try getting a politician and a MoD lapdog waiting for his pension to admit it though.

Maybe they still are.

Oh wait a minute now I remember. Australian Aviation said the NZ Government had instructed the Airforce keep a MB.339 and A-4K in airworthy readiness to allow prospective buyers to test the goods.

God forbid NZ give them away! May they rust in peace.

Ahhhhh...Helen... gotta love her...she as bloody minded a left wing politician as Margaret Thatcher was a bloody minded conservative one.

NZ has been put on the black list for non violent peacenicks.

What with their serious lack of support for all things nuklear, and their strong cutbacks in defence spending its looking like they dont like war.

Who dosen't like war is a terrorist!

New Zealand doesn't have any fighter jets?

Now I can see New Zealand not needing a big military, but no fighter jets is pretty retarded.

The USA offered to lease NZ 28 upgraded F-16A/Bs that went straight to storage (embargoed Pakistan AF) I think it was something like less than 10% buy price, with an option to buy outright in ten years. That was 1998 or 99 from memory.

The then NZ Government and RNZAF jumped at the chance to replace the veteran Skyhawks. Morale was reportedly high. On top of that the NZ P-3Bs were getting an upgrade that would make them as good as the the recent AP-3C upgrades of the RAAF. And they had MB.339s.

Then the Clarke government got in.

Overnight it seemed like a bloodbath - No F-16s, the A-4s went, the Macchis too. The P-3 systems upgrades got canned after a small fortune on airframe work was completed. There are some countries whose airspace regs wouldnt let a RNZAF P-3 operate because of thier outdated avionics. The Clarke Government is still talking about replacing them with smaller, shorter legged twins like Dash 8s or even aircraft like the Super King Air (at a time when countries like Brazil are finding money to buy surplus P-3s).

We couldnt even get the NZ government to let the RNZAF A-4 squadron based in NSW to keep flying....with us paying for it! Which gave lie to it being more about economics and less about political idealogy.

Makes regional neighbours like Fiji wonder if NZ is really serious about thier role in the region, as NZ P-3s do long range economic zone patrols in the region to support the island nations. It means that the ADF will be busier as there was an agreement on the division of labour with the RAAF P-3s watching other zones. Or there will not be patrols at all.

Reports in Australia indicated that it caused crippling damage to a civilian NZ aerospace support industry built around supporting the RNZAF. If they hadn't bailed out Air NZ...Pfffttt!

They mothballed and disposed the Sealift ship Charles Upham, only a few short years after aqquiring it, and finally killed off the RNZN options on the 3rd and 4th Anzac Class frigates.

On the plus side

The NZ Army is getting new radio sets and Australian built wheeled LAVs light armoured vehicles to replace the Scorpions and M-113s....and these are the most advanced versions available. Although for now they are dependent on others moving them outside NZ.

And they brought a sensible version of the SH-2G helos, and had a sensible transition (oh that was a pre Clarke arrangement) that we Australians should have done. "Oh no we are not going to fly old refurbished -F versions in the interim,Oh no we are going to waste....spend years and millions rebuilding our -Gs and reducing the crews by one man". look whose been flying thier birds five six years and whose still trying to get the software on thiers to work. That was an Oz stuff up, not NZs.

The RNZN even managed to squeeze seven new ships out of $500 million dollars. Tenix Australia/NZ has been contracted to supply a 8000t multirole sealift and support ship to be built in Holland, two 1800t OPVs to be built in Australia with many components fabricated in NZ, and four large Inshore Patrol Vessels to be built in Tenix NZ yards.

It must have been the lack of guns in the CGI concepts that got it past the minister. They will be operated by the RNZN with a multi agency mandate. Fisheries Customs and Police for instance.

The RNZAF has been reduced to a prop trainer, transport and helilift force.....oh and flying government ministers and advisors around the place in modern quiet comfort. Couldnt you at least have kept the Macchis?

Its not that NZ has gone peacenik on us that has miffed some Australians with service affiliations. Its that they have done so placing most of the burden on us. There is a feeling that the attitude has become "between us and the world is Australia....we don't need to do jack if the need arises"

Some Australians feel NZ isn't even doing the bare minimum to support the alliance.

Some Australians worked hard to keep defence ties with NZ running when NZ quite rightly stopped letting USN ships visit if they were nukes or the Americans wouldnt tell, and the US responded by excluding NZ from tri defence arrangements. Some Australians wonder why we bothered and wasted the money.

We thought that if the doo doo really hit the fan, we could depend on NZ to back us up - not carry them.


As to being peaceniks. NZ doesnt widely advertise it, but there are usually 60-100 NZDF personnel serving in the middle east in the coalition, with NZ SAS in Afghanistan. Even Australia doesnt have known SF in the region at the moment.

New Zealand had decent ships as far as I remember, I really hope the US will give them some free JSF's or something (which I highly doubt)...

Maybe Holland will pawn their F-16's for a reasonable price to NZ...

What firearm is the standard arm of the NZ Army? Steyr AUG?

Yeah, it's the Styer. The LAV's are bollocks, really. We need some J model Hercs.

At least 5 or 6 of the Macchis/Hotrods should have been kept, if not just for the training element for us and the RAN. Short sighted decision. I hope we (and the RAN) never get into a Falklands type situation with low flying VFR AC.

no the lav's are not meant to replace the M113's and the scorpions.
only the M113's.
scorpions have been left out to rust for years.
in fact i screwed a chick in one while on exercise in Waiouru.
really uncomfortable i must say.
and the lav's arent bollocks.
what exactly do you base that opinion on?
have you driven one?
have you operated the turret?
have you seen one up close and personal while the doors were actually open?
that is were you allowed to see it properly?
and.......... no.
the new personel aircraft arent Auntie helens own private jets.
she hardly gets to use them they are usually busy flying the infantry battalions around for training in different parts of new zealand and the pacific/ SE asia region.
actually.

[edit on 25-8-2005 by Wardr08e]

Originally posted by selarius
use the cash to buy a couple of Boeing 757s to use as her own personal jets.

Geez here in the in the UK they have just begun talking about buying a 767 for the PM (already nicknamed Blair Force One) usually they take scheduled flight or use Royal Flight BAe 146's (even the royal family have start to shift from using only the Royal Flight BAe 146's to occasionally using scheduled air liners. Would it have been cheaper to have something like a gulfstream V surely have the capacity of the 757 is only really need for ego to give a load of toadies a free junket.

Maybe there is a thunder somewhere. Or I cannot believe New zealand doesn't even have one Jet plane capable of fighting supersonic

It would be more likley to be Australian F-11's or similar than any USAF plane.

I know a man who served with the NZAF so I'll have a talk to him about it.