Sandy Hook Skeptics Travel to Newtown

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

A really interesting topic OP, even if you have to tread on eggshells! I'm not sure that this type of event will get any closer to the truth but it keeps the questions about the tragedy in the public consciousness.

Personally I'm totally on the fence on this one, but the contradictory information, the redactions and unanswered questions create an air of mystery which is what makes people interested, and develop their own theories.

Like another poster said, when a political agenda appears to have been attached to such a tragedy, then it becomes a matter of public interest.

Slightly OT but have you got a link to the story you mentioned about being forced to read pornography in school?



Great thread, will watch with interest.

originally posted by: Bilk22
A few have stated the correct questions aren't being asked. How about posting the correct questions so we can judge their merit?

What was Adam Lanza's motive?

Was gunshot residue found on his hands or clothing?

Were his fingerprints found on the gun at the scene?

Can all the slugs and shell casings from the crime scene be forensically linked to his weapons?

Can a single eyewitness put Lanza on the scene?


If they can't even answer these basic questions about the crime why should we believe any aspect of this story?

originally posted by: MRM13
Slightly OT but have you got a link to the story you mentioned about being forced to read pornography in school?

Great thread, will watch with interest.

Sure thing, here's the link.

Now, a follow up to my OP:
The CT Post article had gotten a lot of comments when, for some reason, all of the comments just disappeared and commenting itself was disabled on the article for quite a number of hours yesterday. Apparently they received some angry complaints and now commenting is restored.

originally posted by: starviego

originally posted by: Bilk22
A few have stated the correct questions aren't being asked. How about posting the correct questions so we can judge their merit?

What was Adam Lanza's motive?

Was gunshot residue found on his hands or clothing?

Were his fingerprints found on the gun at the scene?

Can all the slugs and shell casings from the crime scene be forensically linked to his weapons?

Can a single eyewitness put Lanza on the scene?


If they can't even answer these basic questions about the crime why should we believe any aspect of this story?

The motive, so we've been told, is he liked shootem' up video games. The first motive given was he was there to kill his mother who worked at the school, but that was quickly retracted when it didn't fit the story. Other "motives" were he was "disturbed" and on meds. Yeah I guess we don't have a real motive, but I'm sure the answer to that is, this is just a crazy random act that doesn't have a motive.

The rest of the forensic stuff, we'll never get a direct answer to. I think the people there at that meeting, wanted to address the inconsistencies of the response vs the forensic details. They are certainly among the most important, but those people weren't qualified to address them.

originally posted by: Bilk22
The rest of the forensic stuff, we'll never get a direct answer to. I think the people there at that meeting, wanted to address the inconsistencies of the response vs the forensic details. They are certainly among the most important, but those people weren't qualified to address them.

These are some of the most important points.
I will address some of them, so watch this space

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: FlyersFan
See everyone says leave it alone and no one has any right to photos or evidence, but I disagree. The second an incident like this becomes a tool to use against the public then they deserve the right to investigate and have it equally legitimized to them.

If people dont want other people demanding evidence or proof then they shouldn't demand change. If people are really serious about change then sharing that evidence and info and pictures should be worth the greater good right?

I think its as simple as that. They deserve to be left alone and never questioned while they use the incident to try to affect laws that affect everyone? Nope. If you want change and a tragedy to be used to make that change then be willing to go all out for the greater good. If you want to force change while keeping half the story to yourself and essentially have your cake and eat it too then the people shouldnt be expected to stand idly by.

The day a tragedy Is simply a tragedy without politicians (or in this instance politicians and a bunch of townspeople) trying to enact sweeping changes that affect a whole country, that's the day people dont have questions. Don't want conspiracies, want to preserve integrity? Dont attach your agenda (which imo destroys integrity much faster than conspiracy theories).

I think that's all beside the point. We have a right to the information as it is public information according to the jurisprudence we as a nation have via legislation. The only time evidence of any kind can be covered by the vail of secrecy is to protect national security. If that was used here, then Adam Lanza didn't commit this crime. Some outside entity did that would effect national security.

With so many disconnects, the SH conspiracy will never go away...just like 911...We as taxpayers deserve the truth.

a reply to: starviego

Lanza was found dead at the scene with a "self-inflicted" gunshot wound to the BACK of his head. Ipso facto, he done it. No further questions...

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Mr Mask
You think people with honest questions on a situation that is a tragedy should silence themselves and stop asking questions?

The parents of the dead children are satisfied. And the amount of tin foil hat version of 'conspiracies' with Sandy Hook is absurd. There are people running around screaming that the families are all in on a conspiracy and that they got paid off with free houses. There are people claiming that there are no dead children. There are people claiming that the story of Sandy Hook came out BEFORE the tragedy. (and YES, those type of posts have been seen here in great number - look at the LOL forum). There are a lot of silly stupid stories that people eat up. The bottom line, the parents of the dead children are satisfied so a bunch of arm chair 'detectives' from the internet should just leave the families and the people of Sandy Hook alone.

I am from CT.

So? I was born and raised in Connecticut. (SUFFIELD).
I have relatives who were teachers one town over from this.
They know people who went through the tragedy.

All the while, Wolfgang Halbig is asking legitimate questions, mostly about protocol and standard operating procedures during mass-shootings/tragedies. After all, he has extensive experience with such events. But because the parents want no more answers, we should all forget it? Bankers seemed to want to forget the financial crisis too, guess we should all just shut up, eh?

Halbig's questions are not about the absurd theories you touched on. So you're saying because of absurd theories, legitimate questions should therefore be ignored?

Hmmm, sounds like outright ignorance to me.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: starviego



Lanza was found dead at the scene with a "self-inflicted" gunshot wound to the BACK of his head. Ipso facto, he done it. No further questions...

Not to mention a Connecticut state trooper testified that a surviving victim with a gunshot wound to the leg gave a description of the shooter that DID NOT match the body of Adam Lanza.

As promised, my thread on the forensic evidence:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: 3mperorConstantinE
As promised, my thread on the forensic evidence:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks, I hadn't seen those....

Still there are so many here that don't want to be inconvenienced with looking at evidence. Their mind is made up and completely incapable of denying ignorance.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
How sad. 'Skeptics' need to leave the good people of Sandy Hook alone. They don't need a bunch of obsessed people showing up demanding to see police reports on dead children or photos or whatever else. Those Sandy Hook people suffered an unimaginable tragedy. Leave them alone!

I would agree people should leave them alone if they are going about "investigating" in a ignorant way, or thought up some goofy theory after watching a few suspect Youtube videos.

But, if people are going there in search of the truth (which obviously hasn't been provided due to so many inconsistencies/inaccuracies.) then I say all power to them. As long as they go about it respectfully and intelligently.

I personally lost a close relative about 2 months ago. And I was the one that found them, along with my father. It was not a fun experience by any means. I would regard it as one of the worst experiences in my life to date easily.

But if I was being told this and that about their death, and not really getting a firm grasp on what had actually happened, I'd try and put my foot down and get to the bottom of it. I would owe it to my relative to find out the truth once and for all.

We can't allow garbage reporting, or even possible coverups/trickery to be conducted while under criminal investigations. No matter how severe it may be. I find it much more disrespectful when news stations or police/coroners/reporters throw out a inaccurate story. Because it shows that they probably don't even really care about what's going on very much to begin with. It's their job to find this stuff out. Seeking the truth and taking the time out of your life to try and find it for other people would seem more honorable. Compared to news stations pushing out a quick story to get in some juicy ratings. That's the way I see it at least.

According to FBI director Comey, lives at Franklin High were saved by correcting this problem encountered at Sandy Hook: failure to assign command to keep the egress routes clear. Dickenson Drive was blocked in very short order.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Not only was Dickenson Drive, the primary egress route, quickly gridlocked, there seems to be a startling gap in the first crucial hour when ambulances were not present. Newtown volunteer rigs A2 and A3 left for Danbury Hospital around 10:05 a.m. with their patients--A3 had to double up, carrying both a teacher and a child. The first confirmation from Newtown that backup rigs are inbound is 10:35 a.m.:

Newtown Fire & Police 10:34:23 a.m.
Newtown Dispatch (Nute): “Be advised at this time you should see incoming: three AMR, two [Campion], one Southbury, and two medics.”

There is every chance that ambulances never staged outside the school not because the scene wasn't safe after shooter down, nor because they weren't needed, but because they simply could not get down that road. CSP officers, NPD officers, and Newtown EMS command (as well as multiple civilians calling 911) requested ambulances at the school, multiple times, but not one ambulance ever staged in the Sandy Hook School parking lot.

When multiple civilians dialed 911 from the parking lot, screaming for ambulances, not a single dispatcher ever told that caller to seek cover, to leave the parking lot, to do anything at all to avoid the danger that presumably was keeping ambulances out.

Maureen Will, Newtown EMS director, has also given public lectures which mention road blockage on Riverside Road, but has tended to avoid the Dickenson Drive issue.

Sadly, give FBI Dir. Comey's affirmation of what many had already suspected, we must reexamine the claim that all 24 injured remaining inside the school were absolutely beyond medical help.

In Sedensky's 32 page summary of the CSP Final Report, there are multiple references and quotes from CSP and NPD personnel, who are listed both by name and badge number. Their activities are detailed, and their transmissions transcribed. Though Bob Nute was dispatching Newtown Fire & EMS, as well as NPD, there is not a single reference, in the summary, to an individual EMT or fire fighter. There is not a single reference to a paramedic. The summary of one of the worst mass shootings in US history is, in effect, completely silent on the emergency medical response.

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

I think this trend toward making tragic events taboo to discuss is to the detriment of this nation and to the victims or victims families. Particularly since with many of these "events", the official story is either full of holes or blatant misrepresentation. There are government groups that have been using mass manipulation to further their agenda for a long time now, longer than I've been alive.

I am not commenting specifically on Sandy Hook, though media reports raised a number of red flags. I am just saying that making these subjects taboo is exactly what those who manipulate the public perception of events, be they true events or false flags, want. People shouldn't be an ass to those that survived or lost people in such events, but to blindly accept the official story in this day and age seems absurd.

If these malicious acts become taboo to even discuss, then the perpetrators have already won. And maybe they have. We've been trained not to talk about it, not to respond, and to believe or do anything we are told while vilifying anyone who asks questions. That doesn't mean every crackpot theory is correct. Most aren't. But some of the most crackpot theories I've heard in my life have been the official stories.

I would like to add that any investigation should be respectful and tactful to affected parties. Official response, official story, and evidence gathered however, are totally fair game.

Eventually, I think responding agencies will have to account for what really happened that day, whatever it was. But calling it a hoax doesn’t apply pressure (no offense intended to those who believe it was a hoax or drill). Calling agencies on the carpet to account for obvious and serious problems in the emergency response, however, applies a lot of pressure, as it should. Parents and educators nationwide should be outraged that lifesaving information has been kept from the public. You literally have a team of people online dedicated, it seems, to saying that the response was “perfect” and “no roads were ever blocked” and “there were always plenty of ambulances.” That is simply preposterous, in light of the information which has surfaced over the past year.

Heaven forbid that, because of the apologists' smokescreen, some district fails to hear of, and train on, solving the problems the Sandy Hook response faced. Fairfield High is very lucky that somehow, word had gotten to their region that because of Sandy Hook, we now know it is extremely critical to “assign command to keep egress routes clear.” What of other districts who’ve never heard that message? If in fact the road from Sandy Hook school was blocked within minutes, that should have been national headlines for months, and EVERY school district would know about it, and school boards would have the political will and financial backing to make sure that is trained on, over and over. But it’s hard to get districts to spring for training they don’t know they need.

In addition, the Hartford Consensus and Hartford Consensus II has recommended changes in emergency response regarding hemorrhage control–-again, referencing Sandy Hook. It is now felt that 1) EMTs should go in much earlier, even when the scene is not completely safe and 2) police must get training in hemorrhage control. Again, the message is clear: Children may have lived at Sandy Hook had they received earlier hemorrhage control, and that trumps EMT safety, to a greater extent than we formerly believed. The very title of the Hartford Consensus' chief document, "Improving survival from active shooter events," implies that not all 24 wounded inside Sandy Hook School were deceased upon officer arrival. If they had already been beyond help, we wouldn't be talking about their potential survival. The fact seems clearer and clearer that they were not all beyond help, and had help gotten to them sooner, some would or may have survived.

All of these things apply, regardless of what really happened at Sandy Hook that day. The problems in the emergency response, and the critical need to address them, literally apply whether it was a drill or real. And the pressure to address them neatly circumnavigates all those people saying the emergency response shouldn’t be discussed–-both those saying it shouldn’t be discussed because it the response was perfect, and those saying it shouldn’t be discussed because Sandy Hook wasn't a real event.

Something just struck me this morning, as I was looking at the Hartford Consensus material again.

Think about the title of this document--a publication of the Hartford Consensus, convened after Sandy Hook to discuss proposed changes--serious changes--in emergency response protocol:

Improving survival from active shooter events: the Hartford Consensus.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Improving survival? Weren't all the wounded inside the school beyond help from the minute officers arrived? Isn't it true that no ambulances or paramedics were needed, since all victims were so badly wounded that absolutely no change in emergency response could have saved them?

Why and how do you need to "improve survival" for people who were DOA? Who were "all black tags?" Who "all had injuries inconsistent with life?"

Of the 24 victims remaining in the school, whose chances of survival could have been improved that day?

If the answer is "no one - they were all black tags," then what we are suggesting is that the Hartford Consensus is frivolously recommending immediate, serious changes to existing policy, changes which will put EMTs at serious additional risk, and do so for zero improvement to patient survivability.

The reality, of course, is implied in the the document title--that a better balance must be struck between EMT safety and patient survivability. Ergo, patient survivability could have been improved at Sandy Hook. The official story has us believing that there was absolutely nothing that could have been done to save anyone else in the school.

What troubles me about all this is that, as far as I can see, the Hartford Consensus has worked under the assumption that roads were clear, and that EMTs were told not to enter. The Consensus therefore has failed to include any specific references to the vital aspect of immediately assigning someone command to maintain egress routes.

In other words, the Consensus appears to have worked under the theory that hemorrhage control should have been achieved earlier at Sandy Hook, but wasn't because EMTs were held back--when the glaring likelihood is that hemorrhage control couldn't have been achieved optimally early, because roads were blocked. Or if it had, extraction would have had to be by hand-pushed gurney--again, far from optimal.

It makes perfect sense to me that the news were able to release names and ages of the victims yet the state was not able to produce that information nor was there a death certificate released for any of them. The news can make mistakes "oh sorry, we got some bad information and rolled with it" AGAIN! no biggy it happens all the time.

The STATE releasing names and death certificates of people that did not actually die = EPIC cover up of fraud by a US state.

I am really shocked at how many people will jump on a wagon just because they heard something on a corporate news channel and just ignore completely that there was never any evidence released that could support it. There is something fundamentally wrong with that. It is ok to have a bleeding heart, but don't look if that is the case, otherwise professionals have a job to do and they are NOT doing it.

a reply to: 3mperorConstantinE

I did think it was a bit odd that they wouldn't let EMTs in there....and the porta-johns were an oddity as well....the building has how many restrooms in it? and the building's utilities were still on...so it makes no sense why they'd need to have portable toilets trucked in..i mean, honestly, who's gonna want to go outside to do their business, in the cold, when there's all these perfectly good restrooms available?

also, please don't tell me you fell for that manipulative crap about the dude getting himself arrested in new hampshire...i'm sure you saw all the evidence pointing to him intentionally starting trouble.

i'd like to go into it further, but there's a thread for that, and also, PMs...talk to me.

I guess every school shooting is handled differently. We saw the video of Harris and Klebold in Colombine, but we don't see the video of Lanza breaking into SHES desite their $300k security system.

"No video has been released of Adam Lanza entering the SandyHook school but the school had recently spent $300,000 on a new security system including state of the art video cameras and door locks. One of the big questions is how did Adam Lanza get into the school did someone let him in as he was carrying an assault rifle? Was the door left open? Did he shoot out the door? This is a key question from the event. No pictures exist of the crime scene.

collapsereport.com...