Family, Friends Of Dead Home Invaders Say “They Didn’t Deserve To Get Killed.”

originally posted by: mclarenmp4


Thankfully here in the UK if you did murder someone for breaking and entering then you will rightly be sent to jail for a very long time.

That is a sad reality you guys face there.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
Do people not have any respect any longer for human life?

When the respect of my home and my family is tossed aside by POS people breaking into my house, the respect for their life is tossed aside as well.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
Yes the person breaking in is criminal and deserves punishment for their crimes but is death really a justified reaction to a property intrusion? Not in my book & thankfully we live in a society where corporal punishment is frowned upon.

I guess your crystal ball tells you the reason why the POSs were in the house. Mine, sadly, seems to be broken. So, I must look at the situation as someone is in MY house, without MY permission and I don't know what they are there for.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
to all the people who are shoot 1st ask questions later, why not give the person a warning before going all gun happy?

As soon as the POS gives me fair warning that they are coming over, I will consider this.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
You have 10 seconds to get off my property or bullets will start flying, if no compliance then do whatever means to remove the person from your property but don't just shoot and hope for the best.

So, they have 10 seconds to draw their weapon and use it on me? Or, their buddy can attack me, while I am trying to hold my weapon on them? No thanks.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4

I respect all life and there is always another option other than murdering someone.

It isn't murder. The respect thing goes away once their lack of respect action happens.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Very simple.

originally posted by: Kryties
Here we go with the bloodlust and the salivating and the excuses for killing people again....

....only in America!

A break in is a violation of your property and your person. Have you ever had your house broken into even when you're not there, it feels almost like a rape. If idiots didn't violently infringe on the rights and sanctity of others, there wouldn't be a problem now, would there? Duh!

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: mclarenmp4



I love it when ATS people get all high and mighty about gun violence, only to not live here, but to have an Avatar that is related to violence and firearms.

Sure sure......sure sure

a reply to: mclarenmp4

I am a veteran and I am VERY well taken care of thank you for the concern.

But I am sure your country is the bastion of hope, yes?

I would have mixed emotions after I shot them.

If protecting my family makes me a "blood thirsty American".

I can live with that...

originally posted by: muse7

By the time you got close enough to swing away at them with your baseball bat, they would have already emptied a whole clip on you.

Then you're doing it wrong. You don't approach a burglar face to face. Try again.

The first line of defense for an able bodied man or woman is a good guard dog. One who is loud enough to wake you wake you up because they are well trained and in an area of your yard that is close to where you sleep in your house. The second line, a good security system. If they get by those, at that point, you should have a good idea where they are in your house, so if you approach them face to face, you obviously don't know the lay of your own house that well, or you're just stupid.

If all you can get from that post is the baseball bat angle, I'm glad you're not my neighbor. You're dangerous.

You have the right of self defence but only using "reasonable force". So if you murdered someone just because you felt threatened by their presence and they had no weapons then you would likely be jailed because murder does not equate to "reasonable force".
Gov.uk

If you happened to wake up to someone in your bedroom while sleeping then yes you may feel your life was in danger and the use of reasonable force would be justified but most home intrusions aren't like that.

a reply to: DeepImpactX

Soooo, we must now sneak up on the person that broke into our house, and hit them with the baseball bat?

I can't just expect people not to break in and face death....I must be sneaky in my own house.

originally posted by: DeepImpactX

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: Kryties
anything and everything can be used as a weapon.

You're right, but to most gun owners, the only weapon that matters is a gun.

As a gun owner in the U.S. i find the blood-lust in this thread disturbing. Guns are meant to be a last resort, not the only option. That, and everyone here are trying to put themselves in the shoes of senior citizens. Senior citizens who probably can't aim well and as a result.........accidents happen. Oops.

I can understand the blood-lust ONLY if it's the product of a legal system that is broken. Which it is. I've watched it go downhill for decades now and it's gotten to the point where people feel that their only realistic option is to kill first, ask questions later. Their feelings are justified because the system favors the people who get hurt or killed while in the act of doing something illegal. But most of people here don't seem to have thought this through. They don't care what the legal system says or does anymore. They don't try to go, en masse, to the places where laws are changed and sentences are modified. Instead of working to make changes they would rather pick up their gun and say "Change this!!"

The only way that murder is justified is if there were no other options left at the time. Able bodied Americans who have the money to invest in 4 guns also have the money to invest in a good alarm system, some good dogs a few baseball bats and one firearm that is well known for its accuracy. They have no excuse. If you have an arsenal in your home and nothing more than a deadbolt on your doors, it's obvious to everyone that you would rather kill someone than be safe. And those people could probably give a rats a** what I just said.

Senior citizens are a whole other story. Most are on fixed incomes and can only afford a firearm that is second rate. One where a person is shot in a part of the body that wasn't aimed at. In cases like this, the courts need to tack on an extenuating circumstance to the act of robbery by saying it was worse than normal because the robber picked out an old person. Someone who can't fight back, and use that as a justification for the murder.

If you live in an area where this isn't the case, do you have to in order to change the laws and the sentencing structures. It's easier than you think when you have a lot of learned and pissed off people behind you.

ETA: For the record, I believe the intruders got what they deserved because they had a history of doing it to the same person.

I don't think that a single pro-gun person in this thread has said that they shouldn't have things like alarms systems, dogs, and so forth as well.

How bad are people? A few weeks ago my cousins kids house was burned down by someone they were having issues with. They were in Florida on vacation when it happened. When they got home people were already going thru the ashes and taking what they wanted. Now the kids in trouble for trying to save what little was left and ran into somebodys pickup that was tying to get away with the tools and stuff from the garage. He should have shot them.

a reply to: macman

Oh yeah General Zod and his crazy guns, lol.

And if you must know the avatar is from Man of Steel, you know that American Superhero that values all life and stands for truth, justice and the american way.

originally posted by: muse7

originally posted by: DeepImpactX

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: Kryties
anything and everything can be used as a weapon.

You're right, but to most gun owners, the only weapon that matters is a gun.

As a gun owner in the U.S. i find the blood-lust in this thread disturbing. Guns are meant to be a last resort, not the only option. That, and everyone here are trying to put themselves in the shoes of senior citizens. Senior citizens who probably can't aim well and as a result.........accidents happen. Oops.

I can understand the blood-lust ONLY if it's the product of a legal system that is broken. Which it is. I've watched it go downhill for decades now and it's gotten to the point where people feel that their only realistic option is to kill first, ask questions later. Their feelings are justified because the system favors the people who get hurt or killed while in the act of doing something illegal. But most of people here don't seem to have thought this through. They don't care what the legal system says or does anymore. They don't try to go, en masse, to the places where laws are changed and sentences are modified. Instead of working to make changes they would rather pick up their gun and say "Change this!!"

The only way that murder is justified is if there were no other options left at the time. Able bodied Americans who have the money to invest in 4 guns also have the money to invest in a good alarm system, some good dogs a few baseball bats and one firearm that is well known for its accuracy. They have no excuse. If you have an arsenal in your home and nothing more than a deadbolt on your doors, it's obvious to everyone that you would rather kill someone than be safe. And those people could probably give a rats a** what I just said.

Senior citizens are a whole other story. Most are on fixed incomes and can only afford a firearm that is second rate. One where a person is shot in a part of the body that wasn't aimed at. In cases like this, the courts need to tack on an extenuating circumstance to the act of robbery by saying it was worse than normal because the robber picked out an old person. Someone who can't fight back, and use that as a justification for the murder.

If you live in an area where this isn't the case, do you have to in order to change the laws and the sentencing structures. It's easier than you think when you have a lot of learned and pissed off people behind you.

ETA: For the record, I believe the intruders got what they deserved because they had a history of doing it to the same person.

By the time you got close enough to swing away at them with your baseball bat, they would have already emptied a whole clip on you.

Besides, sneaking up on someone and hitting them in the head with a baseball bat is also use of deadly force and morally and legally the same if he'd used a gun--either it is justified, in which case it'd be justified if he sued a gun, or it was not in which case he'd be going to jail, same as he used a gun.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

So, you bemoan American Culture, all of our violence and firearms and poverty and such, yet have an American Hero as your Avatar.....and live in the UK.

Ever heard of the term, "Your doing it wrong"?

Just how confused are you.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
You have the right of self defence but only using "reasonable force". So if you murdered someone just because you felt threatened by their presence and they had no weapons then you would likely be jailed because murder does not equate to "reasonable force".
Gov.uk

If you happened to wake up to someone in your bedroom while sleeping then yes you may feel your life was in danger and the use of reasonable force would be justified but most home intrusions aren't like that.

Rubbish.

You just have to show you were in fear of ones life. Its a very low bar.

Only reason people like tony martin got jailed was because he made the mistake of shooting someone in the back which was wrong.

When it says "reasonable force" it mean you can use whats you think is reasonable at them time, so if you kill a home intruder under fear that they possibly had a weapon that's fine. The BBC link I posted points out thet its what you class class as "reasonable force", if it turns out that the intruder was unarmed then that's ok as long as you thought it "reasonable force" at the time.

The law unlike you takes into account that a home invasion if a frighting thing that will result in split second decisions that could mean life and death for a home owner.

a reply to: NavyDoc

But.............guns are evil.....and baseball bats are not guns...........therefore......baseball bats are just fine regardless how they are used..................did I forget to mention that guns are bad.

Where is the MDA to save the little children???? Those poor children that were just simply misguided. I bet the home owner made his house out of candy and enticed those children into his home or terror, just to shoot them.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4

originally posted by: nfflhome
Its dark and you were asleep, you wake up to the sound
of an intruder, heart pumping, God what a tuff position to be in.
Sorry I think I would shoot to kill.

And that's why the rest of the world think Americans are a bunch of pansies because anything scary happens in your country and you hide behind your guns. The rest of the world have to deal with home invaders & all other crime without the use of guns & we all manage to do it.
People make mistakes when their young and thankfully i live in a country where we have due process & not a vigilante legal system where you shoot 1st & ask questions later.
Yes it was stupid of the kids to do what they did but they didn't deserve to die.

Live in the UK? You actually have a right to use deadly force to protect yourself in your house that is more lenient on deadly force than in some "liberal" US states.

A firearm is a tool, as is a mace, a baseball bat, or a knife and they all can and do kill. It does not matter what tool you use, you either have justification to defend yourself with lethal force or you don't. In many instances you do, even in the UK.

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: mclarenmp4

So, you bemoan American Culture, all of our violence and firearms and poverty and such, yet have an American Hero as your Avatar.....and live in the UK.

Ever heard of the term, "Your doing it wrong"?

Just how confused are you.

You're clutching at straws mate.

Guns are cheaper than alarm systems and way more unlikely to fail.

I wish I was a member of the crowd who somehow trusts stupid, failure prone technology to keep me safe.

Ossifer, my security system captured a blurry image of a guy in a hooded sweatshirt.

In the end, in the worst case scenario, you are held responsible for your own well being.

Cameras and motion detectors are just deterrents, what happens when the burglar is determined not to go into withdrawals from his drug of choice?..sometimes the drug is only money to feed himself or his/ her family, or just WANTING somebody else's stuff, what someone else has, and not wanting it enough to work for it?, maybe not even knowing how...

a reply to: NavyDoc

originally posted by: mclarenmp4

Oh poor little intruder scared you didn't he, aww poor you. Here have a glass milk and a cookie and mummy will get you your toy gun back so you can protect us from that evil boogeyman.

**Looks around** Why would I need my mom to do that. I can provide those things for myself.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
Man up and don't be so # scared all the time.

Who's scared? I carry a 45acp 1911. I'm farthest from being scared.



And using the tired old "man up" retort. You really need to get some new catch phrases.