Spiritual creative people opposed to quantifiying their experiance creating more duality.

Spiritual creative people opposed to quantifying their experience creating more duality.

The way I define these concepts to make sure the reader have the same meaning for the word I use.

Quantifying=Taking apart something to lesser parts that can be used to clarify how something is put together. The different parts can then be used to create new constructions with other parts.

Duality=Separation based on different viewpoint and lack of being able to see/understand both viewpoints.

I am a person who both likes logical thought and science way of quantifying things who have had spiritual experiences that I wish to understand on all level of consciousness.

Many times when I deal with spiritual people here on ATS I sometimes get frustrated by that people are holding back and not talking about their experience making it harder for me to see if my experience is similar to others. I do get that some think it is a personal experience and do not want to share that on internet and I have to accept that.

I also notice that some spiritual people here on ATS are very against quantifying their experience since it will make the experience known and understood by all and they wanna play around with their understanding of it and not have information spoiled to them. You can see it like 2 groups of people with a different want:
"People who want to enjoy the ride" vs "the ones who do not care about the ride but want the knowledge as quick as possible".

There is in some of the spiritual people that have ego based superiority that they wanna keep that creates duality. Even sometimes they are deliberately mystical about their experience and farfetched hinting that only means things in their ego projected conscious that will not make any sense when the information enters another consciousness. I call these people "the building a mystery crowd".

I know language sometimes do not reach the thing we are trying to describe but some spiritual people using description that are farfetched when they do not have to be only make it even harder for people to understand each other. To those people who are doing it I say below:

If you are trying to test if a person has insanely high fractal pattern recognition ability then test it on threads where you are telling them that this is what you are doing and stop playing mentally superior that you are able to see patterns that they can't. It is like a 7 year old being proud of knowing the alphabet when the younger one is still trying to understand the alphabet. It might be a big thing to you but in the grand scheme of things it is childsplay. You are just building ego separation for the people you talk to when you play this trick.

Sarah McLachlan - Building a Mystery

Logical thought and science can't eliminate the ambiguity inherent in language. Maybe you expect too much. I'm finding that the more mystical experience I gain, the less I'm comfortable saying.

But more power to ya.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

S&F!

I agree ... but due to your nature you want to know every microseconds worth of plan and action for going through 6seconds worth of rapids ... and that is impossible to codify ... SOMETIMES YOU JUST HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW OK!

The reason is ... IF YOU HAVE NO FAITH THEN GOD DOESN"T WANT TO KNOW YOU!

originally posted by: BlueMule
Logical thought and science can't eliminate the ambiguity inherent in language. Maybe you expect too much. I'm finding that the more mystical experience I gain, the less I'm comfortable saying.

But more power to ya.

I agree with you that language is not a perfect medium but it is the only one my consciousness have. From my point off view we probably need more words that are well defined so that we get closer to the thing we are trying to describe. That means even more quantifying in language to remove a big part of ambiguity created by having some words mean many things. The words are not what we are trying to communicate but the thing the words point to.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

It is true. People cannot articulate things they do not understand. Even though they have a limited amount of letters in their alphabet, they could create an infinite amount of ways to describe their experience. But they usually refuse, and when people want to understand more about the mystical experiences of others, they always disguise it behind a poetry of vacuous words, or are simply not forthcoming.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: LittleByLittle

 

It is true. People cannot articulate things they do not understand. Even though they have a limited amount of letters in their alphabet, they could create an infinite amount of ways to describe their experience. But they usually refuse, and when people want to understand more about the mystical experiences of others, they always disguise it behind a poetry of vacuous words, or are simply not forthcoming.

I see this as an over creative thing where you overusing the creative side and underusing the logical side, making the information you are sending only usable to specific people. In a way you can see it as people encrypting something so that only people with the decryption key can understand.

Often, people don't speak of experiences simply to keep it "pure". Putting it out there invites questions, and a person may find their super special experience actually wasn't very interesting at all.

Example.

John goes outside everynight after sundown. he feels special because he looks at the stars and far away, barely perceptible, his UFO friends fly by for a couple hours, he feels very special and touched by these benevolent beings showing themselves to him.

He spends the day feeling he is unique and different from the rest of the slugs of this world, maybe he was put here for a purpose, to maybe bring love and harmony...he is a light worker..he is a alien whom will save humanity, one person at a time..he truly is living outside of the miracle.

This is when John was special.

He finally discusses his events on a ATS forum, to explain that he is special, that his words of wisdom he randomly picked up are backed by the most advanced species of this universe.
And then he learns through horrible science nerds that he is simply watching satellites at night...his world is crushed. John, after confirming this is not just some troll being mean, is no longer special plejarian John on a mission...he is just some dude getting eaten my mosquitos at night watching space junk we shot up there....and tomorrow, he will not feel special or in contact with a greater purpose..he will simply feel like a slug..a common human like the rest of us jerks.


That is often the case why people fear discussing their experiences...protecting their sense of being special. ignorance is bliss.

a reply to: SaturnFX

I agree that it can be a defense mechanism to not be questioned that is because of fear.

In my way of thinking being a light worker (trying to bring harmony) is a choice that you make. And even if the experience can be described in scientific terms as something normal do not mean the experience was not meant to change John to be the special plejarian John on a mission. In one way we are all special and unique. The belief John has might be a joke to the others but the works John do while believing he is special plejarian John on a mission is not.

Since I have experienced the moment of clarity where everything makes sense on the level my consciousness could handle and the changes to how my body is after that, outside ridicule cannot really hurt me. Change of perspective changed my body physically over time even if it cannot be seen by outside observers. To quantify the experience do not make the experience less. I want to understand how it happened and all the factors involved in it. I will probably have to wait until I am on the other side to be able to understand it.

Foo Fighters - My Hero

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
others but the works John do while believing he is special plejarian John on a mission is not.

See, I do believe that. Whatever you may believe, no matter how ridiculous, if it makes you a genuinely better person towards your fellow man, then keep it. If the Ouija board convinced you that you should help that homeless guy straighten up and get a job...awesome, keep it up...regardless of what is truly happening, your making the world a slightly better place.

I just wish people didn't feel the need to have some supernatural experience before they got off their ass and did something positive for their neighbors

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: BlueMule
Logical thought and science can't eliminate the ambiguity inherent in language. Maybe you expect too much. I'm finding that the more mystical experience I gain, the less I'm comfortable saying.

But more power to ya.

I agree with you that language is not a perfect medium but it is the only one my consciousness have.

Mythology is the picture-language of the world-soul. It's code. So if you focus on science to the exclusion of the humanities and mystical experience, you won't be able to get past language.

originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: BlueMule
Logical thought and science can't eliminate the ambiguity inherent in language. Maybe you expect too much. I'm finding that the more mystical experience I gain, the less I'm comfortable saying.

But more power to ya.

I agree with you that language is not a perfect medium but it is the only one my consciousness have.

Mythology is the picture-language of the world-soul. It's code. So if you focus on science to the exclusion of the humanities and mystical experience, you won't be able to get past language.

We definitely do not want to get stuck in a state where you cannot see past the words. From my point of view this is where some followers of religions are now days.

But we can try to make the road easier too by paving the way and making the leap of faith to another view smaller can we not instead of creating duality barriers? Make the gradual change smaller and easier to travel for the unexperienced.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: LittleByLittle

 

It is true. People cannot articulate things they do not understand. Even though they have a limited amount of letters in their alphabet, they could create an infinite amount of ways to describe their experience. But they usually refuse, and when people want to understand more about the mystical experiences of others, they always disguise it behind a poetry of vacuous words, or are simply not forthcoming.

A little research into the phenomena will reveal volumes of literature on the subject and of the experiences. Even a google search should turn up tons of material, testimonies on the subject. Where is this lack of community engagement you're talking about?

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I can see where it would be frustrating to have people that claim to have insight into the spiritual and then speak in a way that makes it a bit confusing. IMO those people are simply covering up for their own lack of understanding as a great man once said.



I honestly believe that is the case most of the time. I have seen such instances on a vast array of subjects so I can relate.

I cant really comment on the subject of the spiritual though because I am not spiritual my life is already full ATM with the here and now without needing to delve into things that I don't particularly believe in but for those that do feel the need to I don't begrudge them in any way its just not my cup of tea per say.

I had come to the conclusion some time ago that if such realms/dimensions/states of being do exist then at the end of my physical journey that is life I will become aware and embark on that journey so until that day comes I will work with what I have in the physical realm.

I wandered a little with that post so to reiterate I don't think some of the people you are conversing with are withholding info do to ego, but I do think their ego is keeping them from giving you an honest answer of "I don't know". It is just a hunch.

a reply to: Grimpachi

You seem half-way interested in the transcendental , but unless somebody makes the effort to convince you that any of it's real, you're going to be happy remaining ignorant of the answer to the question and avoid experiencing it yourself? Did I read that correctly?

If you're that little interested in the subject, why should anyone take the time to explain something to you which is already difficult enough to explain using the English language? It's not "why aren't they?", it's "why should they?"


(The English language because of the Noun-verb structure of communication. The act separate from the actor.)

The transcendental converted down to words will always result in a misconception of what it actually is.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Well to counteract this effect, I can tell that the best way to develop yourself spiritually is by looking inwards. This may sound harsh, but don't let others tell you what reality is all about. Find out for yourself.

a reply to: Visitor2012

Look I was speaking to the OP on the matter of how he finds it frustrating when talking about the subject people give the air of knowing something he doesn't and withholding such information which as I said that happens on a vast array of subject matter. I can relate to that and gave my opinion.

There really is no need to be insulting and call me ignorant because I don't believe the same things you do perhaps you are bothered by the fact that I am simply not interested in the transcendental and I don't put much stock in it. If you do put a great deal of stock into such things thats awesome have fun with it but to be clear I wasn't asking anyone to explain such things to me.

I never said it was BS nor did I claim there was something to it I am simply agnostic on the subject. I will keep an open mind on the subject but not so open that my brain falls out. For those who wish to delve deep into the subject I am not trying to tell them what to do but my advice to the OP when dealing with the "building the mystery crowd" is it is very likely it is still just as much a mystery to them and they are just not letting that show.

I hope I was able to clear things up for you.

originally posted by: brazenalderpadrescorpio
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Well to counteract this effect, I can tell that the best way to develop yourself spiritually is by looking inwards. This may sound harsh, but don't let others tell you what reality is all about. Find out for yourself.

I am trying to keep people who call themselves spiritual people honest on why they do what they do and that they should as you say look within/question themselves. It can be hard sometimes to quantify feelings/hunches/third eye synchronicity. I am trying to find common ground between my experience and others without going to far into the creative side and losing logic(a middle path where I can use both).

I know my own spiritual experience. What I do not know is others people experience and if they have something to share that might increase my box/view/understanding of all that is. Building bridges by finding others who have experienced similar things.

a reply to: Visitor2012

If you're that little interested in the subject, why should anyone take the time to explain something to you which is already difficult enough to explain using the English language? It's not "why aren't they?", it's "why should they?" - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

How is it difficult to explain using the English language?

a reply to: Grimpachi

is it is very likely it is still just as much a mystery to them and they are just not letting that show.

Or could be that it isn't a mystery to them and that it's difficult to transmit using certain languages. One in particular, the English language.

a reply to: LittleByLittle


I can do better than I have been doing in spiritual threads, in the sense that I am not forthcoming and do indeed hide behind vacuous words. I will have to reflect on that...thanks.