Cargo Being Kept Secret On Missing Flight MH370

a reply to: Kester

There's no reason to. The pingers aren't unique in their frequency. The rate of ping is what sets them apart, not the frequency.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Kester

There's no reason to. The pingers aren't unique in their frequency. The rate of ping is what sets them apart, not the frequency.

If there was a cloned box/ping set up as a distraction, the rate / frequency of the ping would be fairly simple to reproduce on the decoy i'd imagine...especially so, if access to the genuine box was readily available.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I mean I felt the pings detected were a deliberate red herring.

Passenger Manifest - purpose of travel - occupations

a reply to: MysterX

The ping isn't box specific, it's generic to all boxes.

a reply to: Kester

If thats true, that could mean several things of interest;

Among other things, it could mean the Chinese were aware of a 'special cargo', possibly highy sensitive and technologically groundbreaking (read strategically dangerous to be without) in nature, and set up a decoy to give their personnel time to attempt recovery.

There's not many other realistic reasons for the Chinese to deliberately divert a search effort, apart from them actually bringing the entire jet down deliberately...wasn't there just announced another unidentified target seen on radar near to the jet?

A fighter perhaps?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: MysterX

The ping isn't box specific, it's generic to all boxes.

Yeah, i saw you say that...but you also said the rate or frequency (of time interval) of ping is the unique factor to each black box didn't you?

a reply to: MysterX

No, it's unique to recorders in general. All recorders ping at that rate, regardless of what plane they're on. The only thing specific about the recorders to the plane is the data they record.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Oh ok, thanks i didn't know that.

Seems a little strange to me, in this day and age, that each aircraft flying today wouldn't have a black box that was specific only to it, in terms of ping or other identifiers, apart from the data it contains.

I mean...even the billions of mobile phones around the world have unique identifiers in the form of specific IMEI numbers.

Even if the black boxes pinged at (very) slightly different rates (time intervals of ping)...fractions of a second would be all that would be needed to make it unique to the particular aircraft...and would make it much more difficult, (assuming such rate differences were confidential), to clone a box's ping rate for diversionary purposes, as the difference would be picked up right away proving the ping wasn't genuine or specific to the jet.

a reply to: MysterX

These recorders were designed many years ago, and haven't changed much since then. It usually takes a long time, and a serious accident to get an upgrade.

that is probably the key.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I would have bet good money that each box sent out a uniquely identifiable ping.

Finding out in the digital age that they don't, when the technology required to make each and every one unique is relatively simple and cheap, is actually quite surprising to me.

I get the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' mindset..but we're living in the age of fly by wire and pretty much 'digital' aircraft, i just assumed if the entire aircraft is upgraded and improved upon, the boxes would be too.

Surprising.

a reply to: MysterX

Oh no. Upgrades only occur when they have to with most aircraft systems. And then they take a long time to be put into effect.

After United 811, when they found out there was a problem with the cargo door, the FAA gave 747 operators 18 months to fix the door, to ensure it locked, and the airlines complained about that, because they said they'd have to take the planes out of service and would lose too much money making them safe.

You might see an upgrade to the recorders ordered after this, but I doubt it. Some airlines may voluntarily go with streaming data, but I doubt even now we'll see a requirement for it.

It also had a separate consignment which contained 200kg of lithium batteries. The company that manufactured the batteries has not even been named.

I work for a well known battery manufacturer, we produce lithium cells and batteries, (I have no idea if this 200kg of lithium batteries were manufactured by the company I work for or not) but I can tell you that lithium batteries are forbidden as cargo on passenger aircraft.

Every single box is labelled 'Forbidden On Passenger Aircraft' with one of these labels

Label

Rules on the shipment of Lithium batteries

Lithium battery shipment rules

So, to have 200kg of lithium batteries onboard a passenger plane is a MAJOR safety risk, I've seen first hand how big a mess even a single lithium cell makes when it malfunctions, to have 200kg on a passenger flight is an insane risk! If those cells vented or were damaged during the flight then its a safe bet that that's why the plane went down!

a reply to: ukmicky1980

So, to have 200kg of lithium batteries onboard a passenger plane is a MAJOR safety risk, I've seen first hand how big a mess even a single lithium cell makes when it malfunctions, to have 200kg on a passenger flight is an insane risk! If those cells vented or were damaged during the flight then its a safe bet that that's why the plane went down!

Unless the 200kg (or 221kg as reported on the awb) lithium batteries..were not just batteries being transported as batteries...they might have been a power source for a wireless 'radio device' (radio components / the other cargo weighing 2.2 Tonnes) not hardwired directly into the 777's systems...

This could be back up evidence for a 'breakthrough military spec radar and electronic warfare device having been in the hold of that aircraft...powered up locally..using 200kg worth of Lithium Ion batts (a lot of power in 200kg worth as you know)...the question is, if it was powered up using powerful batteries, why would such a device be powered up in the hold of a 777?

777 is a fly-by-wire aircraft, one of Boeing's first.

If (and only if) this mystery 'RF cargo' was active, and looking at Freescale Semiconductors impressive resume of digital / radio / microcontrollers and RF innovations, and that there were 20 of Freescale's employees on that flight, is it reasonable or even potentially possible given the nature of a computer driven / ridden Boeing 777..that that electronics package could have taken over the flight controls of the aircraft?

a reply to: MysterX

Contrary to what has been said, there is no outside access to the flight control computer. You might get into some outside systems, but you can't get into the flight control computer that you would need to take over the actuators and fly the plane.

The extra 2tonne is currently being explained away as some sort of radio equipment. It was never mentioned in the original disclosures and now they have come up with new excuses.

The extra 2+tonne is a time travel machine. The plane traveled a short time iinto the future. We will catch up with it shortly.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Cheers Zaphod58.

Outside systems eh?

What would the flight computer do, if one of the outside systems reported a severe malfunction to the flight computer i wonder?

Not necessarily an actual malfunction or emergency, but one being reported...like a fire, or a sudden, explosive drop in cabin pressure reported to the flight computer by one of the outside sub-systems...any idea how would that effect or cause the flight control computers to react?

Would the computer initiate an emergency descent and a change in course, like was seen before the aircraft disappeared?

Is it possible an outside system could convince the flight control computer that the flight control computer itself is malfunctioning...and force a switch to a backup?

If the backup computers had been usurped / hacked or imitated by something highly innovative and technological lurking in the cargo hold, running off lithium batteries (it would not show a power drain to the 777 systems and wouldn't raise an alarm)..switching over to the backup systems, thinking the primary was about to go nuts, the flight control computer itself may have handed over the keys to the aircraft...

Supposition i know...but is it remotely possible? Before you consider that question..i reckon a quick once over glance at Freescale's website and their products portfolio might be an eye opener.

a reply to: MysterX

I looked at them when I was trying to find info on the engineers on the flight.

The flight control computer on the 777 only takes the control input, and sends the signal to the proper flight control. It doesn't actually control the aircraft or do anything in the case of an emergency. Any action is up to the pilot to take. If he doesn't input anything, the plane will keep right on flying normally.

Here's some breaking news:

Eleven terrorists with links to Al Qaeda have been arrested on suspicion of being involved in the disappearance of MH370

Strangely enough, the newspaper title isn't updated accordingly:

www.dailymail.co.uk... anifest.html

The secret cargo was reported to be radios and battery chargers. Now figure that one radio was left switched on and wired up to a "charger". That would have been enough to ignite a fire that would eventually set fire to the lithium batteries. Airplanes and the cargo crates were resigned to withstand the shockwave of explosions with blowout panels. So something that would rapidly fill a plane with smoke or fumes would be the only alternative.