Richard Dawkins admits the possibility of intelligent design... by aliens

This is not news because this is old but it's the first time I see it.



I am glad to see that Richard Dawkins keeps an open mind regarding this topic. What he is basically saying is that perhaps life has been planted on our planet by an advanced species of extraterrestrials but even if that was true we would still have to explain how those advanced aliens came to be, keeping in mind that evolution of life and how life came to be are two different topics at least in science. I can understand why he would be reluctant to admit such a thing because that would be like giving ammunition to his 'adversaries' (and he would be right considering a video like this). And "intelligent design" is perhaps not the right expression concerning this hypothesis, because for example if I go to another planet totally devoid of life but with the right environment for life to thrive and drop some seeds there, would that be called "design" ? I don't think so, merely some kind of directed panspermia.

But let's imagine this really advanced alien species and let's push the hypothesis a bit further : could we say that at some point they would have the characteristics of what we call a god ? After all any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic (Arthur C. Clarke). Maybe advanced enough even to the extent of creating (or simulating) a universe, or at least the capacity of triggering a big-bang maybe without fully understanding everything that is going on ? The question is also "why humans" ? Why would they create humans unless they are themselves some kind of humans at a different stage of evolution ?

a reply to: gosseyn

The question is also "why humans" ? Why would they create humans unless they are themselves some kind of humans at a different stage of evolution ?

You're making the same mistake as that travesty of a film Prometheus. Humans are the product of billions of years of environmental pressures and competition with other species. There is absolutely no way that you could take primitive life and say "let's make some humans", wait a billion years or so and expect to see humans as a result. If they wanted to create humans, they would just create humans using whatever super advanced technology they have, not seed a planet.

a reply to: GetHyped

I'm not someone who buys into anchient alien theory. I'm like Dawkins, it's possible but not the most likely answer.

That said. The brain burst 50k years ago and the missing chromosome that the other great apes have are very intresting points.

The theory isn't that they made humans from scratch.... It's that they genetically manipulated Neanderthals or some other primitive ape man into us. That would account for the ability to adapt to earth.


And who says atheists are as close minded as religious people.

a reply to: GetHyped

I'm not someone who buys into anchient alien theory. I'm like Dawkins, it's possible but not the most likely answer.

That said. The brain burst 50k years ago and the missing chromosome that the other great apes have are very intresting points.

The theory isn't that they made humans from scratch.... It's that they genetically manipulated Neanderthals or some other primitive ape man into us. That would account for the ability to adapt to earth.


And who says atheists are as close minded as religious people.

a reply to: GetHyped

I'm not someone who buys into anchient alien theory. I'm like Dawkins, it's possible but not the most likely answer.

That said. The brain burst 50k years ago and the missing chromosome that the other great apes have are very intresting points.

The theory isn't that they made humans from scratch.... It's that they genetically manipulated Neanderthals or some other primitive ape man into us. That would account for the ability to adapt to earth.


And who says atheists are as close minded as religious people.

a reply to: ArtemisE

The "missing" chromosome was actually a fusion of two chromosomes.

And who says atheists are as close minded as religious people.

Edit: redacted, misinterpreted what you wrote

But the question and debate are still wrong, correct?

The debate is "Christian Old Testament Genesis Intelligent Design vs. Evolution"

a reply to: GetHyped

I know it's a fusion of the two. But still could have been artificially done.

I was referring to the organized religions... Not the more agnostic ones.

He's keeping an open mind. Which, all scientists need to do for the facts they need to present, and facts they need to piece together to make the larger picture. Dawkin's was an agnostic at one time, he was a big fan of Carl Sagan, who was agnostic. But as time went on, he became full out atheist, and I am sure if Mr Sagan had lived longer, he would have changed his views as well.
That being said, the difference between us, and all the other species of ape that has not been as successful as us was most likely ONE beneficial mutation, and as someone pointed out, it was the fusion of two chromosomes to make our uber one.
But, we aren't all that different from say bonobo's, they are just as intelligent as us, they use tools, learn like us, even have communications and different tones, and dialects as we most likely had hundreds of thousands of years ago, there is a good TED talk on how Bonobo's and us humans have actually been able to make a cross homo species relationship, scientists hang out with these creatures, have pick nics, etc, it's quite interesting.

a reply to: gosseyn
I think we need to pay close attention to the definitions given when discussing this topic. Intelligent design, as it is used today, is an oversimplified description of perhaps a very natural occurrence.

I think when most people hear about the possibility of alien life altering human DNA they think of actual intelligent creatures coming down to Earth and physically altering monkey DNA to create humans. Again an oversimplified description. Here is what I mean;

Viruses have been shown to alter human DNA.
8 Percent of Human Genome Was Inserted By Virus, and May Cause Schizophrenia

According to new research, as much as eight percent of the human genome consists of viruses that inserted themselves into our DNA for replication, including the gene that causes schizophrenia.

Can Your DNA Change During Your Life?

Mutations in the DNA have also been noted with the introduction of certain viruses into the body. In fact, this is a method by which “gene therapy” is being studied in depth.

Can viruses come from space (Panspermia)?
Scientists Discover Unique Giant Virus That Could be From Space

A new virus discovered by French scientists could be the biggest yet encountered on Earth.
Dubbed Pandoravirus, only 6% of its genes have anything in common with the rest of life on this planet, leading researchers to believe it has either remained in its original state from a historic era, or is from a different planet altogether.

I think we have a ways to go before claiming the discovery of an alien virus yet I feel that it is very possible that viruses and simple life forms can survive space and seed and alter life on Earth.

Cosmic rays alter DNA.
How do cosmic rays affect DNA?

Cosmic rays can seriously damage DNA... If the damage is copied into more cells, then a mutation could occur... Long term exposure to cosmic rays, or short intense bursts, could affect the evolution of life on Earth.

I have aslo read that people who live in higher altitudes have a slightly higher rate of change in their DNA as do flatlanders.

So what is intelligent design? Is it some toga wearing old guy with a big beard creating humans and such in a day or two with the snap of his fingers? Or is the Universe conscious and intelligent, creating complicated life forms as a natural response to the flow of energy? The yin to entropy’s yang.

a reply to: Devino

DNA that is altered in an already developed human won't be passed down through future generations. It would need to be done at a young, young age, most likely when the subject is still in the womb, when the body is developing, it would need to be beneficial to the species, and it would need to be done over many generations, thousands.
What 'nature' sees beneficial to one species as well, will see deadly to another, for example, a virus, it literally attacks the DNA in the cells, replicating the old cells with many Trojan horses. Until the body sees it's a threat and destroys it.
So in theory, if there was an alien race it would need to not only understand the entire ecosystem of events on planet earth, on the full multi cellular visible level, but on the microscopic singular cell, and deeper level as well. It would take thousands of years to gather data like that. But that's assuming they don't have the technology yet... bottom line, it's VERY improbable.

Still... Aliens who created us ? An idea that is totaly possible, according to the bible. Making the aliens be like God, or God just an alien.

I don't think it's likely though. As the huge distances that you need to travel between the stars, make any alien interference less plaussible, then the current amount of evidence, science that learned us that human ancestors have been around for a long time, being able to play the God/alien part in human history.

Despite the idea that our intelligence, and technological advanced abilities, have never been possible before...
The intelligence we take for granted has been around for millions of years mabey, at least way longer the 10.000 of years we think it has been.
Any evidence of an advanced man, would be eroded in time, leaving only traces hard as rock, capable to survive the sands of time.

Any genetic change from an ancient advanced design, is statistically more likely from human origin, then the possibillty of any alien visiting our planet, as we are as small as an atom, in a universe of matter widely spread around.

So...

WE DON'T KNOW YET...

a reply to: Devino

Great post!

He's not keeping an open mind at all. He knows full well that all he's saying is that similar evolutionary processes may occur elsewhere in the universe. Which just brings us to the same fundamental question on an intergalactic scale. The credibility of his position isn't damaged by admitting life on Earth may not have evolved here entirely, because the foundation of his argument is still evolution.

Aliens playing mad scientist with our DNA does not constitute "intelligent design" (as commonly understood) and he knows it. He's using the phrase in an attempt to expand his accessibility and sell more books.

originally posted by: NthOther
He's not keeping an open mind at all. He knows full well that all he's saying is that similar evolutionary processes may occur elsewhere in the universe. Which just brings us to the same fundamental question on an intergalactic scale. The credibility of his position isn't damaged by admitting life on Earth may not have evolved here entirely, because the foundation of his argument is still evolution.

Aliens playing mad scientist with our DNA does not constitute "intelligent design" (as commonly understood) and he knows it. He's using the phrase in an attempt to expand his accessibility and sell more books.

Well that depends how you look at it and what your definition of "intelligent design" is. I believe really advanced science and technology would be able to create life (self-replicating and auto-adaptive).

But I am asking myself if Dawkins is aware that if he pushes the hypothesis a bit further he can have aliens that have the characteristics of what we call a god. Not a personal god like in religions, who watches your every word and every move and listens to your prayers and waits to punish you or reward you, but a god who has the capacity to create life, to create universes, to trigger big-bangs, who is immortal, who has the possibility of being here without physically being here etc.

originally posted by: gosseyn

Well that depends how you look at it and what your definition of "intelligent design" is. I believe really advanced science and technology would be able to create life (self-replicating and auto-adaptive).

We all know what is meant by "intelligent design". I guess the Atheists are going to try to change the meaning of that phrase too.

But I am asking myself if Dawkins is aware that if he pushes the hypothesis a bit further he can have aliens that have the characteristics of what we call a god. Not a personal god like in religions, who watches your every word and every move and listens to your prayers and waits to punish you or reward you, but a god who has the capacity to create life, to create universes, to trigger big-bangs, who is immortal, who has the possibility of being here without physically being here etc.

What god are you talking about? You're taking certain attributes of god that a very specific segment of the population believes in and then projecting said attributes across all religion.

Which is an extremely ignorant thing to do, a fact most Atheists are completely ignorant of.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: gosseyn

Well that depends how you look at it and what your definition of "intelligent design" is. I believe really advanced science and technology would be able to create life (self-replicating and auto-adaptive).

We all know what is meant by "intelligent design". I guess the Atheists are going to try to change the meaning of that phrase too.

Except that Dawkins is very clearly not talking about intelligent design in the sense that creationists mean it. You would have to willfully ignore the context and what he actually said to think otherwise.

What god are you talking about? You're taking certain attributes of god that a very specific segment of the population believes in and then projecting said attributes across all religion.

Which is an extremely ignorant thing to do, a fact most Atheists are completely ignorant of.

Wow, that's quite a lot of projection from yourself there.

originally posted by: GetHyped

Wow, that's quite a lot of projection from yourself there.

Talk about willfully ignoring context.

Jesus.

a reply to: gosseyn

Mathematics exists outside the universe ... i.e. before the big bang singularity existed ... maths exists!

Why? Because if NOTHING existed then that is codified by the number ZERO and hence a mathematical and logical construct.

Intelligent Design, as maths and logic, exists prior to existence regardless of what any Atheist says and it IS the mind of God!

a reply to: NthOther

Do you even know what those words mean or did you just like the sound of them?