why mercury?

found these two items the other day:

The controversial text known as Vimaanika Shastra, said to be by Maharshi Bharadwaja, also describes in detail the construction of what is called the mercury vortex engine. This is no doubt of the same nature as the Vedic Ion engine that is propelled by the use of mercury. Such an engine was built by Shivkar Bapuji Talpade, based on descriptions in the Rig-veda, which he demonstrated in Mumbai (Bombay), India in 1895. I more fully explained this in Chapter Three of this volume. Additional information on the mercury engines used in the vimanas can be found in the ancient Vedic text called the Samarangana Sutradhara. This text also devotes 230 verses to the use of these machines in peace and war. We will not provide the whole description of the mercury vortex engine here, but we will include a short part of William Clendenon's translation of the Samarangana Sutradhara from his 1990 book, Mercury, UFO Messenger of the Gods:

"Inside the circular air frame, place the mercury-engine with its electric/ultrasonic mercury boiler at the bottom center. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky in a most marvelous manner. Four strong mercury containers must be built into the interior structure. When those have been heated by controlled fire from iron containers, the vimana develops thunder-power through the mercury. At once it becomes like a pearl in the sky."

from: (Steven Knapp).

Brad maintained that inside this big vacuum chamber in the central column that�s inside everything else � inside the flywheel, inside the secondary coils of the Tesla coil, inside the crew compartment � there is mercury vapor. Mercury vapor will conduct electricity, but it produces all kinds of ionic effects. These little molecules of mercury become charged in unusual ways, and if you fire a tremendous amount of electricity through mercury vapor that�s in a partial vacuum, there is something special, something unusual that happens in that process.

(from: disclosure project testimony of Mark McCandlish)

Steven Knapp's not what I'd call a reliable source by any means; does anyone know how reliable we can take the testimoney of Mark McCandish to be? In any case, I'd be surprised if it's properties of mercury that matter so much as it's just vaporized metal; I'm not aware of any metals with lower vaporization temperatures than mercury (and given that it's a liquid at room temperature, vaporizing it in a vacuum would be trivial).

So: any takers on the relative likelihood of:

a) Knapp ripping off the disclosure project
b) McCandish ripping off vimana stuff
c) simultaneous mutual invention
d) both of these guys stumbling on to something

also:

for the kids, don't go trying to make a vacuum chamber filled with mercury vapor at home; it's way way too dangerous for amateur scientists without a lot of specialized equipment and training.

I didn't quite understand that, would someone mind summerizing in laymans terms?

well, this thread's been bumped from here to scitech and back again; hopefully it'll stay put from here on out.

the point of the thread is that we've got mercury showing up in two very different "fringe topics": one, in some guy's shaky-at-best translation of a supposed ancient indian flying machine's inner workings, and once in the testimony some guy gave to the disclosure project people about how the army's ufo's are powered.

"ufo" researchers tend to cut and paste each others' stories a lot and also tend to try to corroborate each other's stories whenever possible, so as to give themselves more appearance of credibility; take a look at the phil schneider thread for some examples of that. on the other hand, if you subscribe to the theory that most disinformation has some real information buried in it, it wouldn't be out of the question that two very different disinfo agents whose accounts agreed on some aspect of their stories could be passing along something more or less true.

thus, when you bump across things that agree in very different settings it's worth trying to figure out how the same bit of information -- here, the use of mercury -- found its way into two different stories, and that's why i'm posting this thread.

the vimana guy (Knapp) seems like a bit of a nutcase in my book -- I wouldn't take much of what he says at face value, or even at a quarter of that -- but he does have a section where he tries to explain how he thinks a vimana (a hypothetical ancient indian flying craft) worked, part of which i quoted. according to his account, you had as a power source for these vimanas some kind of engine that involves the use of boiled mercury.

the testimony from the disclosure project (i'm not sure if it's on the web, i'm taking it out of the .pdf) has some guy claiming that the army's ufos are powered by zero-point energy which is somehow harvested by a vacuum chamber with a bit of mercury vapor in it.

so we've got some kind of agreement there, from two pretty unreliable (so far as i can tell) sources; I was curious if anyone either had anything to add about either source or alternatively had some kind of theory for why mercury would come up. off the top of my head, mercury's the transition element with the lowest boiling point, which would make vaporizing it easy, so it may have less to do with "magical" properties of mercury than simply with it being easiest to make mercury vapor; in that case, presumably other metal vapors would function similarly.

There's better support for Bismuth being a component of UFO craft, than Mercury...

First, there is the debris sample that Art Bell was sent. It was of such a purity, and manufacture, that metalurgists felt it couldn't have been produced here. Apparently, it was in layers only a few microns thick, and was something like 99.9999 etc. etc. pure.

Bismuth is known for it's diamagnetic properties. It's even used in some home levitation science experiment projects (which you can easily find on the web, last I remember)

Whether you go for Lazar's story or not, there's an interesting bit about his mythical "element 115" also. On the atomic chart, it would be right under Bismuth, and as most elements in the same column have similar properties, this does lead to some interesting ideas.

Interesting ideas on mercury though... I mean if you did need to vaporize metal, then mercury would be the obvious choice, as the only metal (I can think of) in liquid state at room temperature, so it'd be easier to vaporize...

yeah, I'm familiar with the bismuth/element 115 stuff. the mercury was something new, so I posted it.

my short take on lazar: most charitable case is that he's an electrician/machinist/etc, worked w/ some people from or at area 51 or someplace similar, and heard some stuff...i'd guess, from the physicists i know, that a physicist -- typically these people love to talk about their research -- would be the most likely person to leak a bit about the physics involved even if it's supposed to be classified...these guys just like to talk. so, he heard some stuff, he doesn't really get it -- belive me, the guy's no scientist -- and tried to bolster his story by "boosting" his credentials, then refused to admit it when he got caught out. that's my most charitable take, and they go down from there.

element 115 is a weird thing to make up, though; on the one hand, at the time it hadn't been synthesized, so it'd be hard for anyone to just go and double-check his claims. why element 115 (as opposed to some higher or lower number) always seemed a bit weird to me (it's possible he saw the levitation experiments w. bismuth, saw that 115 wasn't synthesized yet, and made stuff up from there; if i get time it'd be interesting to check the relative timelines on those experiments versus lazar's claims).

now that it's been synthesized if lazar's passing along legit information, either the scientific community is lieing about its terribly short half-life (which is pretty unlikely) or it's got a stable isotope that hasn't been synthesized yet; it'd be interesting to know about the latter possibility, but lazar's not looking good (on any front).

from what i know of the physics, i like the idea of a metal vapor in a near-vacuum getting some kinda electrical pulse through it as a way of tapping zero point energy; it wouldn't surprise me if at some magical concentration you got some funky electron orbital overlaps that pulled energy out of zero point fluctuations, but i wouldn't bet any money on that working either....googling scholar.google.com doesn't turn up much recent research on mercury vapor in vacuo, though (most of it stops after the 30s, I guess transistors killed off vacuum tube related research).

thing about mercury is it's so toxic, especially in vapor form, even if i had the money, equipment, and expertise to experiment with it, i'd be too afraid my vacuum tube would shatter and i'd poison myself; my house/lab etc.

i guess for the moment we can add mercury in vacuum chambers to ufo lore, and maybe some other "researchers" will notice it in a few other places.

Thats what makes it so hard

Its been said time and time again and has been proven to work;

That is, "The best way to hide the truth is to mix it with a lie"

But in actuality it only raises more questions

now that it's been synthesized if lazar's passing along legit information, either the scientific community is lieing about its terribly short half-life (which is pretty unlikely) or it's got a stable isotope that hasn't been synthesized yet; it'd be interesting to know about the latter possibility, but lazar's not looking good (on any front).

It's still only theoretical that it's been synthesized. It hasn't yet been conclusively proven, last I checked. Not to say Lazar is legit, as all elements so far that high seem to be highly unstable... But then again, we've really just started to get our feet wet here...and we can't even be sure of our own findings yet on it...

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why mercury?
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posted on 28-11-2004 at 02:00 PM Post Number: 990058 (post id: 1010752) �quotewhy mercury?
found these two items the other day:

quote: The controversial text known as Vimaanika Shastra, said to be by Maharshi Bharadwaja, also describes in detail the construction of what is called the mercury vortex engine. This is no doubt of the same nature as the Vedic Ion engine that is propelled by the use of mercury. Such an engine was built by Shivkar Bapuji Talpade, based on descriptions in the Rig-veda, which he demonstrated in Mumbai (Bombay), India in 1895. I more fully explained this in Chapter Three of this volume. Additional information on the mercury engines used in the vimanas can be found in the ancient Vedic text called the Samarangana Sutradhara. This text also devotes 230 verses to the use of these machines in peace and war. We will not provide the whole description of the mercury vortex engine here, but we will include a short part of William Clendenon's translation of the Samarangana Sutradhara from his 1990 book, Mercury, UFO Messenger of the Gods:

"Inside the circular air frame, place the mercury-engine with its electric/ultrasonic mercury boiler at the bottom center. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky in a most marvelous manner. Four strong mercury containers must be built into the interior structure. When those have been heated by controlled fire from iron containers, the vimana develops thunder-power through the mercury. At once it becomes like a pearl in the sky."
from: (Steven Knapp).

quote: Brad maintained that inside this big vacuum chamber in the central column that�s inside everything else � inside the flywheel, inside the secondary coils of the Tesla coil, inside the crew compartment � there is mercury vapor. Mercury vapor will conduct electricity, but it produces all kinds of ionic effects. These little molecules of mercury become charged in unusual ways, and if you fire a tremendous amount of electricity through mercury vapor that�s in a partial vacuum, there is something special, something unusual that happens in that process.
(from: disclosure project testimony of Mark McCandlish)

Steven Knapp's not what I'd call a reliable source by any means; does anyone know how reliable we can take the testimoney of Mark McCandish to be? In any case, I'd be surprised if it's properties of mercury that matter so much as it's just vaporized metal; I'm not aware of any metals with lower vaporization temperatures than mercury (and given that it's a liquid at room temperature, vaporizing it in a vacuum would be trivial).

So: any takers on the relative likelihood of:

a) Knapp ripping off the disclosure project
b) McCandish ripping off vimana stuff
c) simultaneous mutual invention
d) both of these guys stumbling on to something

also:

for the kids, don't go trying to make a vacuum chamber filled with mercury vapor at home; it's way way too dangerous for amateur scientists without a lot of specialized equipment and training.
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SuperVincent
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Registered: 27-11-2004

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Sisonek:
"so we've got some kind of agreement there, from two pretty unreliable (so far as i can tell) sources; I was curious if anyone either had anything to add about either source or alternatively had some kind of theory for why mercury would come up.."

Mercury came up in our analysis of UFO Spectrum.


www.surfin.com.au...

well, now we have three datapoints on ufos and mercury. word.

chris:

if more ufo research was as professionally-put-together and as careful in its analysis as the stuff at that link, ufology'd be a lot farther along than it is. thanks for putting out quality work.

in general, though:

the disclosure project guy's testimony seemed to state pretty unequivocally that the mercury-using power source was at the center of the craft; the indian text is vague, but it sounds compatible with the disclosure testimony.

if you're picking up mercury from the outside of the craft -- which would appear to be the case, unless the craft's transparent -- what gives? how'd the light from inside get outside, or alternatively what use is the mercury being put to in the craft's exterior that excites the mercury enough to glow? this gets curiouser and curiouser...

Sisonek: "chris: if more ufo research was as professionally-put-together and as careful in its analysis as the stuff at that link, ufology'd be a lot farther along than it is. thanks for putting out quality work."

Hi Sisonek, I just got a message that the Spectrum analysis link was moved to the trash bin. Given that the other link to some of my images was removed also, I don't expect that I will be able to share any further info. Nice to meet you though in the short time I was posting here.....

please let me know where i can find the first part of this , i have its second part
written in sanskrit my email id is [email protected]

the mercury goes in a pure iron boiler.a caduceus coil is mounted on top the boiler .this coil is also made of pure iron.the apparatus has a vacuum inside along with mercury.when the mercury boils it ionizes.the two opposing coils create two opposing magnetic fields.these two fields
combined create levitation.a pipe going strait up out of the boiler goes to the top of craft and is capt with a polished ball.this ball creates an ionized sheeth around the craft causing it to glow.the combination of the ionized craft and the caduceus coil cause lift.the coils also cool the mercury and redirect back into the boiler to be recycled.this prevents explosions.mercury gas is deadly.a boy in shreveport killed his parents by leaving some on a hotplate and going outside.the magnetic field is called the bv field.patents that i reference are on the mercury engine sight.pg 2 of ats.be safe