Corporatization is The Enemy, What to Do?

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ketsuko

But corporations do write laws.

Technically people do.

They CHOOSE to make more money and support or pretend to support their company.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ketsuko

But corporations do write laws.

No, the politicians and their lawyers do. So, what does that say about us that we keep voting in people who will allow themselves to be influenced by corporate lobbyists? We elect the leadership we deserve, and if we keep electing greedy politicians who are happy to sell us out, then what does that say about us?

But what's the real problem here?

The government corruption or the corporations making use of it?

allowing corporations the rights of a person without the liabilities
allowing money to be free speech
allowing investment banks to do commercial banking and vice/versa
allowing a private entity control of the family jewels - control of the central money supply
allowing prohibitions on goods to increase their value while spending money on wars against them for this reason...
allowing separate courts for corporate malfeasance like for GMO or Vaccines
allowing blanket immunities against prosecution for the PTB
allowing to big to fails not to fail
allowing bailouts
allowing derivitives
allowing government propaganda aimed at the peeps.
alllowing centralized owning of land by the feds and not letting states control their own lands, policies and people...

well just some of the road blocks to a real honest federal government of the people

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: Kali74 CANADA is a Crown Corporation . what to do .

That's a loaded question, no pun intended. Every government entity right down to municipalities and towns are all corporations. In Ontario as an example, the UN is forcing Agenda 21 down our throats from top down, directly through treaties at the parliamentary level and from bottom up, through ECLEI (UN NGO) and the AMO (NGO). Revenue Canada is a funny one, they are also a corporation (NGO with legislated mandates), a corporate subsidiary to the Bank of Canada. The Bank of Canada is owned an operated by shareholder banks which are owned and operated under the control of the IMF/BIS/World Bank.

Courts are corporations and so are police departments, pretty much everything to do with government is a corporation and it doesn't matter what kind of fancy name they give themselves. It all boils down to one bigass criminal racket. Judges aren't judges, they are statutory administrators, they do not adjudicate because that would fall under common law (which has all but disappeared), "judges" administer statutory legislation. Our laws are not even what you think they are.

Canada, like the US, is a form of oligarchy, but because we have a useless "monarchy" pulling the strings, it is more a mix of feudal oligarchy and predatory corporatism much of which is controlled by Powercorp (Desmarais). Canada (a colony) is also a subsidiary corporation owned and operated by the City of London, via the Crown, whereas the US is a corporation that attempted to purchase the continental US from the british, but still have not paid their debt (and I don't think they should, screw the UK). However, under merchant law, the british can foreclose on the US, making the US a british colony once again.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ketsuko

But corporations do write laws.

No, the politicians and their lawyers do. So, what does that say about us that we keep voting in people who will allow themselves to be influenced by corporate lobbyists? We elect the leadership we deserve, and if we keep electing greedy politicians who are happy to sell us out, then what does that say about us?

But what's the real problem here?

The government corruption or the corporations making use of it?

Corporations are writing Bills and not just Bills that deal with business law. For example, private corporations are taking over the prison system and because they can turn prisons into sweat shops, they're motivated to create more crimes punishable by imprisonment... many States that turn over their prisons to a private company often agree to a minimum occupancy quota. Prison corporations write up the Bills and hand them off to a rep to introduce.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Yes it's a risk... sort of. We already have completely lost control over the government though and we're only about a few straws short of breaking the camel's back. What do you propose we do? Define your revolution.

Simple, don't vote the incumbent, period.

With that one step, you hurt Lobbying, campaign finance, an term limits.

All with one action.


And heres my question to you, if people can't even vote non-two party, how can what you propose ever happen.

Try the methods in place, before you toss the whole thing out.

a reply to: benrl

Amending the Constitution is a method in place. If you have your drinking well and manure pile next to each other and your manure keeps getting into your drinking water, do you keep pulling out the manure or do you do something more permanent?

A ConCon is certainly an option that could change the status quo (for better or worse).

But how would a "guarantee" of *corporate* non-interference be 100% "guaranteed" ?

It would take 1000's of people to do that.

And the State level infiltrations would interfere with ratification.

The turmoil would be mania.

TPTB that planned all this are smart enough to have their own safeguards in place by now.

And the bank system is international. So a single nation may not be able to fight the agenda now.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle I am or have been thinking that the only real viable option is via the Native's .Kind of a return to Natural common law .??

a reply to: xuenchen

Hmm generally I strongly disagree with you, however you did make me think about something. Multi-nationals are the ones with the most power so if by some miracle the people managed to pass an Amendment breaking the ties of Corporate and State, could we remain players on the world stage?

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: xuenchen

Hmm generally I strongly disagree with you, however you did make me think about something. Multi-nationals are the ones with the most power so if by some miracle the people managed to pass an Amendment breaking the ties of Corporate and State, could we remain players on the world stage?

I think that is precisely the problem.

Any "resistance" would be counter-attacked with financial retaliation and strangulation.

These guys are not dumb.

They've managed to get the agenda this far in the last 100 years or so.

They control everything with "money".

It's possible that Governments and Nations are already compromised beyond repair.

A total worldwide financial collapse is about the only thing that can kill it off.

But that would be at great sacrifice.

originally posted by: Kali74

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ketsuko

But corporations do write laws.

No, the politicians and their lawyers do. So, what does that say about us that we keep voting in people who will allow themselves to be influenced by corporate lobbyists? We elect the leadership we deserve, and if we keep electing greedy politicians who are happy to sell us out, then what does that say about us?

But what's the real problem here?

The government corruption or the corporations making use of it?

Corporations are writing Bills and not just Bills that deal with business law. For example, private corporations are taking over the prison system and because they can turn prisons into sweat shops, they're motivated to create more crimes punishable by imprisonment... many States that turn over their prisons to a private company often agree to a minimum occupancy quota. Prison corporations write up the Bills and hand them off to a rep to introduce.

Even supposing they write it ... who has to pass it.

It all ends up back at the politicians WE vote in. Without them, it doesn't matter what the corporations do. I can write a Bill, too, but unless they vote it into law, it matters not. So, why do pols give them so much power? And why do we vote in pols who give them so much power?

It boils down to greed at every level, from the politician to the common voter. We're all out to get what we think we can for nothing, and they exploit that. So, if they play by the rules of the system we consistently enable, why do you blame just them?

a reply to: ketsuko

So, if they play by the rules of the system we consistently enable, why do you blame just them?

I don't just blame them. The system needs to change.

a reply to: Kali74

This thread isn't necessarily about income inequality, wealth redistribution or unequal pay... those are simply symptoms of the disease - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The disease is ignorance.

Someone flipping burgers doesn't DESERVE the same pay as a brain surgeon.

Someone who cleans toilets doesn't DESERVE The same pay as a alrline pilot.

Jobs are not equal so pay should not be either.

It is the fundamental differences between skilled, and unskilled labor.

Hell even with the progress of technology todays jobs are easier, than they were 20,30 even 50 years ago.

The greatest enemy to us is ignorance.

Because there has always been 'income inequality' for labor.

The one size fits, all cookie cutter doesn't work, never will.

The answer is for those that claim to be 'liberal' embrace it's greatest ideal which is free market economic where the market dictates wages.

the best way to hurt any corporation is in their pocketbook, if there is any corporation that you have in mind is to boycott their products.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Kali74

This thread isn't necessarily about income inequality, wealth redistribution or unequal pay... those are simply symptoms of the disease - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

The answer is for those that claim to be 'liberal' embrace it's greatest ideal which is free market economic where the market dictates wages.

As stated this thread isn't about income inequality so I'll respond to the only applicable part of your post. In what way has the United States had a free market economy in the times since our founding, if even then? Take one of the latest issues cropping up because corporate and state are impossibly tangled... The former FCC Commissioner after voting yes to allow Comcast to buy NBC left her position at the FCC and took one at Comcast, and now the current Commissioner who refuses to define the internet as telecommunications thus abdicating FCC jurisdiction over it (killing net neutrality) was the head of the lobby group that lobbies Congress on behalf of the wireless industry. So much corporate interest in government and donating to candidates, is in complete opposition of free market anything.

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: bobs_uruncle I am or have been thinking that the only real viable option is via the Native's .Kind of a return to Natural common law .??

I am pretty much of the same belief, unfortunately, common law will be discouraged or disallowed as it does not fit in with licensing, taxation or statutory fines. Common law requires an injured party, I believe you can still request trial under common law in this stupid colony.

A good example of statutory law (merchant and/or contract law, see the Uniform Commercial Code) is - you're speeding at double the speed limit at 3am with no cars on the road and you're fined $10,000. Stupid maybe, but no one was injured or killed and there was no property damage, so the $10,000 fine will not "fly" under common law.

A good example of common law is - a politician receives benefit from campaign contributions and lobbying, and then signs a treaty like NAFTA, the TAP or TPP that allows corporations to ship their business offshore or sue the government, thereby costing tens of thousands of Canadians their jobs and credit ratings and increasing taxation through inane law suits. Premeditated action and driven by greed or power (personal benefit), the politician has irreparably damaged tens of thousands of Canadians and therefore a charge levied in a Common Law court is valid, because there are victims that have suffered damages.

I don't think we are going to get anywhere however, until politicians, international bankers and their handlers are tried for treason and crimes against humanity. I am just waiting to see if eventually there will be trials or bag limits? It's all good.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: benrl

Amending the Constitution is a method in place. If you have your drinking well and manure pile next to each other and your manure keeps getting into your drinking water, do you keep pulling out the manure or do you do something more permanent?

Amending the Constitution by the current criminals in office will leave you with a much more restrictive Constitution. The amending process, by it's nature, allows all of the original amendments to be modified in either a positive or NEGATIVE way. You could end up with no personal firearms ownership, more surveillance (if that's even possible short of reading minds) and a full blown totalitarian state. You really have to purge the criminals in office FIRST and then have people with YOUR best interests at heart take a good solid look at amending the Constitution.

Cheers - Dave

One of the greatest benefits to corporations, and what tends to get them what they want, a say in how society functions, is lobbying. To separate corporate influence from government the people need to seek a total ban on lobbying. Let us not, however, pretend that that alone would alter the course, it would merely drive it behind closed-door deals.

Corporate heaven is where government people go after their administration has died, there are just too many incentives for government administrations to pander to corporations needs and business wants. However, Western countries have moved away from democracy as people know it to a corporate democracy which served and changed Western societies in particular into plutocratic corporate entities. Power and control now comes from wealth, which is why the gap between rich and poor has been greatly widened and continues to get wider.

The people may still have a democratic say, but more often than not, it is ignored against the arguments of the corporations business needs. Real regulation of big business is what is needed, a dilution of its influence upon government legislature, and very severe punishment for bribery and corruption. Just take a look at the jobs people whom at various leve3ls of government have gone into when they left public service. Look at how they gained their job.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: benrl



Admirable but I disagree. I think it's far too late to flush. Our government is no longer ours if it ever really was after Day 1. I think we need to outlaw the bond between Big Money and State.

Then flush with force and great discrimination...

A Constitutional Convention is a bad, bad idea as it will simply open the door for modification of anything in the Bill of Rights which the leeches in DC find in opposition to their wants. You don't give more power to a group that has demonstrated a complete lack of deservedness for the power they already hold, you strip them of their power! We need a revolution, not a changed Constitution.

This.

Government and Corporations have been in bed for 100 years now. You can't expect the people who benefit from the rigged system to vote legislation into place to unrig it in favor of someone else.

This isn't just a problem in the United States, either. It's a worldwide problem because we now have global corporations that know no borders. That makes it a global problem that requires a global solution. See where I am going with this?

It will come down to the entire world deciding enough is enough. The question is what we will do when someone steps forward with the "perfect" solution. It may already be too late, and we are simply being herded into that very global response with the goal of furthering the very globalist agenda that caused the problem in the first place. NWO. One world government.

How can the poor and downtrodden of the world or even the average joe's stand up against the oligarch's when they are the ones who pull all the strings and have access to cutting edge military technology? Are people really willing to risk their lives to change the world for the better and put the blue bloods behind bars? Because that is precisely what it will take. No compromise, no peace agreements, and no ceasefire. The only way they will ever give up the absurd amount of power they have is at the point of a bayonet.

We have the numbers, but they have all the toys.

All I know is this: America plays a crucial role in all of this, and if the globalists and the corporations win the U.S completely (and they are damn close), the rest of the world is doomed. I don't say that because I am an American (I am Canadian), but because the American people are the only ones who have the numbers, the arms, the remaining freedoms, and the tech to actually stand up and tell the powerbrokers enough is enough. Unfortunately, as a whole they seem to lack the backbone to do it, or the foresight to realize what is in store for them if they don't.