Reports: Russia Spy Ship Operating Just Off U.S. Coast - Russian Jets Violating Ukraine Airspace

a reply to: Zaphod58

Shush now with your facts; that doesn't sell newspapers or generate web hit income. Or drive up the stock market or commodities.

originally posted by: Bellor
a reply to: QuantumEffects

If you really think the Russian Government is any better than the U.S., you are highly misinformed. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

As misinformed as someone who thinks that I live in the U.S when I do not?

You can emigrate from the U.S. at any time you want - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I can only imagine how the Founding Fathers of America would have responded to such a mind numbingly stupid argument.

Also for your future reference that is not true, Americans cannot emigrate from the U.S at any time they want. What a truly ignorant statement to make.

Thank you for destroying a sizable amount of my brain cells.

You said free "us' from tyranny suggesting you live in the United States. The thread you made said "we" are sanctioning Russia so I assume you live in the US. If not, then you're not under the "tyranny" are you?

Why can't Americans leave the US at any time? You're telling me you can't move to Mexico?

a reply to: ausername

Shooting down allied planes (an act of war) is less important than invading a country NATO has interest in? Say what? In what world?

Sorry that not running around screaming we're all gonna die isn't cool, but you don't have to be in the know to realize this has been going on for decades with tensions higher than they are now.

a reply to: Bellor

So let me get this straight.... you don't think Russia is trying to build an empire? maybe we should allow Russia to storm your unknown "free" government

originally posted by: anon72
Yep. Fine time to start a war....

I saw a headline this morning.....

Russian is either getting ready to start WW3, OR it is conducting the largest military exercise in human history!

If it is an elaborate exercise they apparently don't want to talk to the white house about it any more.

The Russians have reportedly CUT ALL communications with the white house...

This was very common during the cold war. Even in the 1980s it was not uncommon for Russian spy boats to be off of the US coast. This is not a big deal.

originally posted by: jrod
This was very common during the cold war. Even in the 1980s it was not uncommon for Russian spy boats to be off of the US coast. This is not a big deal.

Of course it is not a big deal.

Move along now kids, there is nothing to any of this. It is all completely normal.

No need for alarm.

In the extremely unlikely event that it turns into something more, please familiarize yourselves with the clearly marked emergency exits, and keep your seat-belts securely fastened...

a reply to: QuantumEffects

You said free "us' from tyranny suggesting you live in the United States

I should state I am at all times under the basic assumption that as America operates as an empire it is reasonable to assume it projects vast economic and social interests onto its Protectorates therefor its reach should be measured on a global scale. As such nation states that are not American are still directly impacted by decisions made in America, to what degree is obviously pegged on the level of local autonomy.

Without getting into that too much, Empires are complex and always will be a point of radical contention, including even the qualifying criteria that truly defines what an Empire is. But accepting then that an Empire is surely what America is then there are certain, obvious assumptions that are to be made, such as maybe not everyone you speak to about America is an American citizen currently residing in said country.

Why can't Americans leave the US at any time? You're telling me you can't move to Mexico?

And your asking me why I cant just go and live on Mexico?, well any number of reasons. To assume if one simply does just not agree with the state than one could then just leave his country and travel for a new life in the next is an outrageous and highly speculative suggestion.

What if I lackd the means?, you would have to assume I am physicaly able for such a thing, that I have faculties to do so, I must have money to be able to continue a life in a new country. What if I could not afford to leave my job?, I have to eat, I cannot just leave that. I could not even afford a bus, train or plane to mexico!, I guess I could walk, thats free but with no job I will more than likely starve to death on the way there. I also do not speak Spanish.

Simply assuming people can just leave the nation they were born into is as I said quite frankly outrageous and no real answer or solution to anything.

a reply to: JDmOKI

So let me get this straight.... you don't think Russia is trying to build an empire? maybe we should allow Russia to storm your unknown "free" government

Madness, never at any point have I made any such assertion, that is entirely your own fiction. Russia has without doubt one of the richest histories of all nations on our planet, I am not commenting on the nature of its governmental structures or as it may be ambitions. If you do have a topic concerning Russia that you would like to discuss I would be more than happy to.

a reply to: ausername

You think this is a bigger deal than shooting down planes, sinking at least one sub, and possibly attempting to launch a nuclear missile at Hawaii?

All of those things happened in the Cold War, and nothing happened. But suddenly, because Russia is going after Ukraine, this is suddenly a huge deal.

a reply to: Zaphod58

No, but I appreciate the history lesson. As to relevance to what is happening now, it is all a matter of perspective.

One must consider the source, and the possibility of whether these claims are false, first and foremost, or whether they're being blown out of proportion. Consider that Fox is a right wing network, and the right is pushing for military action much harder than the left...That could mean something, although I am not saying this is what is going on for certain.

Next is the fact that one cannot gauge Russian intent simply the positioning of a single spy boat in international waters. Such a thing IS routine, and there is nothing illegal or threatening about it. Now maybe US citizens will know how citizens of other countries have felt in the past, when US spy ships, or even combat vessels, were positioned right off the coast of their country.
So I won't even further address the issue of the Russian vessel, as I don't think it has any significance. People need to realize that even if Russia were taking actions such as gathering intelligence, this does not mean they want war.

People must realize that a military must be ready for all possibilities, and that Russia is just as worried about the US taking military action as the US is worried about Russia taking military action. It is no surprise that during the Cold War the Russian citizens thought the US the aggressors, while the citizens of the US thought Russia were the aggressors. So that could very well be the explanation for Russia's spy ship, as well as aircraft near the Ukranian border.

Now we must ask ourselves the following question: Could Ukraine have a reason to lie and say their airspace is being violated? Sure they do. So I will not take such claims at face value, because those making the claims likely have an ulterior motive. Look at how silly the following ideas are: People are scared of RUSSIA ATTACKING, yet they're saying that Russia is PROVOKING Ukraine? How does that make any sense?

If they are waiting around to provoke Ukraine into taking some sort of first action, then obviously Russia does not want to invade. And if they wanted to invade, why would they need to provoke Ukraine in the first place? That may be considered a bit circular, but it is something to consider. And I've stated previously on ATS my belief that military action at this point would not make any sense. If Russia was going to invade, their best opportunity has passed. They should have done it right after Crimea.

And you have to realize that invading Crimea is not really the same as invading Ukraine itself. First of all Russia has a lease that allows 25,000 troops to be stationed in the south, and their naval base there is probably their most strategically located for conflicts in the larger region. They want to hang on to it at all costs, that is how important it is for their overall peacetime military strategy. That is why they invaded Crimea. Now I cannot think of a single good reason that would be justified, based on how Russia is thinking, for invading Ukraine. They have let so much time pass that they have allowed Ukranian troops to prepare defensive fortifications and networks all over the place, and they have also allowed other countries such as the US to prepare for all possibilities.

Yes Russia could invade Ukraine and get away with it, at least in that it would not start a war with any other nations, because it is unlikely that any other nations would actually fight a war with Russia. NATO will try to do something, but none of those countries want to be responsible for starting WWIII, although things would not be likely to escalate that much, even if an invasion takes place. Also, waiting this long has allowed NATO to position troops in friendly countries along the Russian border.

People see that Russia has troops along the Ukranian border and they say that means an invasion is coming. Yet they fail to realize that NATO has troops stationed along the Russian border, which have recently arrived, but we know that NATO is not going to invade Russia. Therefore saying that positioning troops along the border equates with an imminent invasion is simply incorrect. Russia has a large military force, and like other nations their homeland force is sitting on bases doing nothing. Wouldn't it make more sense to position them along a potentially hostile border, if they're just going to be sitting around anyway? Especially if you wanted to give the appearance of force.

It seems to me that Russia wants the rest of the world to think that they could invade at any time, but I don't think they will. Putin is not a stupid man, and I'm sure he realizes that war would be horrible for Russia and the rest of the world. Even if he doesn't think there is a high probability that he will be attacked by US or NATO forces, he likely knows the possibility remains. He doesn't have some diabolical plot to turn the world communist or anything, as Russia is no longer the USSR. Putin knows he cannot recreate the USSR in modern day Russia, and he knows what he can and cannot get away with.

So anyway, Russia is not going invade, and I've been saying the same thing ever since this whole fiasco started. I also know that there are many ethnic tensions between Ukrainians and Russians. We know some of the things the Ukrainian leaders have said about Putin and Russians in general, and it would not surprise me if these people went to extreme lengths to attempt to not only gain sympathy, but to turn the rest of the world against Russia. They are doing what they can to make Russia appear to be so evil that they could invade at any moment, and that they are constantly violating Ukrainian airspace, etc, etc...I think it is probably just propaganda.

But let us consider the possibility that Russian fighters did violate Ukrainian airspace. This could be a provocation, but it could also be other things. They could be testing the capabilities of Ukrainian response or radar systems, they could be simply photographing the area across the border, among other possibilities. And then it is possible that the pilots operated independently, without orders, or possibly they had orders but these orders came from a Russian officer who did not have orders himself to allow such a thing. We don't know. And to say that war is inevitable is not right in my opinion.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Zaphod58

No, but I appreciate the history lesson. As to relevance to what is happening now, it is all a matter of perspective.

If this were anything serious, Russia wouldn't have sent an old beat-up rust bucket of a "spy ship". I imagine the ocean-going tug is along for the inevitable break down.

a reply to: Montana

I wasn't talking about just the spy ship. But of course I understand how easy it can be for people to lose the ability to think beyond the most narrow view of the topic of discussion.

originally posted by: ausername
a reply to: Montana

I wasn't talking about just the spy ship. But of course I understand how easy it can be for people to lose the ability to think beyond the most narrow view of the topic of discussion.

Well aren't we just ever so precious?

Many of us went around this block a few times, and have a pretty good idea of what we are talking about. I will leave it to others to decide who makes more sense. Have just a wonderful day!

originally posted by: DuckforcoveR
a reply to: Libertygal

and the Knock Out game

lol. "real world problems"

Yeah, scoff. It's called fomenting a race war. Divide and conquer.

But, I guess that's funny to some.

Murdering people in what is called a "game" is symptomatic of a bigger problem.

Guess that just escapes some people.

United we stand, divided we fall.

a reply to: ausername

The ships and subs off our coast are not that big of deal.

Hasn't Russia doing something lately to subvert the petro-dollar?

That is kind of a big deal.

a reply to: jrod

I haven't been able to keep up with it lately, but I do know I went from paying 3.15 a gallon to 3.60 as of yesterday.
Isn't "Summer Blend" cheaper? Man, we are in trouble.

In less than a month and a half.

So yeah, something is happening, and especially considering it's not even a blip on the radar of most media anymore. Used to be, if it went up or down over 5 cents, they screamed for days. Now? Nothing.

Who knew we got that much oil from Russia? Is this why Obama is pussy-footing around?

a reply to: Libertygal

There is some news about it, just got to know where to look.

US Threatens Russia Over Petrodollar-Busting Deal

This is how Russia will replace the Petrodollar