Creationist Debate Stalls South Carolina State Fossil Bill

When 8-year-old Olivia McConnell proposed that her state, South Carolina, adopt a state fossil, she may not have expected her request to prompt a drawn-out fight with creationists in the state legislature.

In letters to her local representatives, Olivia asked that the woolly mammoth be made the official state fossil, because mammoth teeth dug up by slaves in a South Carolina swamp in 1725 were among the first vertebrate fossils discovered in North America.

Her senator, Kevin Johnson, told CBS News this week that he thought a bill honoring the request "would just fly through the House and through the Senate." But the bill is currently languishing in the House, months after it was proposed in January, because some lawmakers with creationist beliefs have objected on religious grounds.

The original text of the bill simply read: "The woolly mammoth is designated as the official state fossil of South Carolina." In its most recent iteration, which was shot down in a vote on April 9, the bill had been amended to read as follows:

"The Columbian Mammoth, which was created on the Sixth Day with the other beasts of the field, is designated as the official State Fossil of South Carolina and must be officially referred to as the 'Columbian Mammoth', which was created on the Sixth Day with the other beasts of the field."

Read more at Live Science

The mammoth said to have gone extinct some 12,500 years ago must rub some creation believers the wrong way. I feel sorry for the poor kid but I hand it to her she sounds determined to see it through. She said it may not happen till she is 40 and maybe by that time those sitting in office will have had the education to know the earth isn't only 6,ooo years old. lol. At the moment that 8 year old has a firmer grasp on reality than the state legislature does. Makes me wonder if they have watched and how they feel about the new Cosmos show. Maybe Bill Nye would consider going there to talk some sense into them and save the kid from some serious headaches.

Here is the link o the state bill SCL

The phrase "from the mouths of babes" comes to mind here... you'd think something as inoffensive as a state fossil wouldn't ruffle feathers but then I remember that a select few throwbacks are still kicking around...

Philosophy, and Religion, should take a side seat to Science.

In education, they need to only take place as Sociology classes, no more.

"Creationist" Who argue these points, hardly understand their own theology, let alone science concepts.

I wonder if they have a state bird and designated it too was created on the 6th day?

a reply to: Grimpachi

Does South Carolina have schools? A fair question, considering.

Maybe each of these legislators who believe the world is 6,000 years old should be questioned individually by reporters from around the country and Europe, to see how their thinking came to be and, bottom line, if they really believe their nonsense or are just saying these things to win over the way-too-stupid wing of whatever party they're claiming to represent.

Not all creationists believe the 6,000 year theory. Genesis should not be taken so literally. Evolution is still a theory. I believe that God created our world and that various creation stories are often misinterpreted and taken too literal. The Big Bang theory and the theory of Evolution do not contradict a creator, they just contradict people's interpretation of the creation story.

sounds like they might want to consider making religion the state drug

I think they should elect Olivia and other like-minded tots like her to replace the fossils in the state capitol

a reply to: Aleister

SC has schools it seems like they are doing a decent job. Remember it was the 8 year old who proposed the mammoth being the fossil, but its the living fossils in the legislature who have a problem with it.

As far as getting reporters to publicly shame them I doubt that would do any good as there are plenty of like examples of politicians of the same mindset I would bet such an endeavour would actually earn them more support in that area.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Even the Catholic Church adopted a position of theistic evolution (or evolutionary creationism) in the 90's. This is thoroughly depressing news but not entirely surprising when I remember the results of a Pew poll from last year:

White evangelical Protestants were most likely to not believe in evolution, with two-thirds saying humans have existed in their current form since the beginning of time. Half of black Protestants said the same. Only 15 percent of mainline Protestants agreed.

Views among the general population have remained roughly the same since Pew last surveyed on evolution in 2009, although the gap between Republicans and Democrats on the issue has grown. Currently, 43 percent of Republicans and 67 percent of Democrats believe in human evolution, while in 2009, 54 percent of Republicans and 64 percent of Democrats held that view.

source

The Red State Dark Ages.

a reply to: benrl

What would you call "Science"? Carbon dating, which is totally unreliable, or would you call some person's theory as Science, just what do you call Science? If it can be explained in a mathematical formula, does that make it Science?

I think neither Science, Philosophy, nor Religion need take a side seat to any.

I believe in Creation, but also that 6 days shouldn't be taken literally. It's just how I view it. I think the 6 days could have been 6 thousand years or whatever. My ego isn't so huge that I think we can explain everything with scientific theories. I believe there had to have been a Creator who gave us life. We didn't just arrive out of thin air, life that is. We have a Creator. We were created. We are a part of an intelligent design. My ego isn't huge enough to think that I need to be able to rationalize everything our Creator has done in history, either. I don't put myself in the position of God. I don't think that our minds can accurately comprehend everything about our Creator, or Creation, for that matter. And when you go and measure time in the Theory of Evolution, you are using man's standards. Everything about our scientific theories is open to change at the very next scientific "discovery". So there's really no absolutes in Science.

Why is an 8-year-old girl lobbying the state legislature to adopt a state fossil?

Sounds like some kid is being taken advantage of (not to mention brainwashed) to me.

a reply to: gippers


I know not all creationists are young earth creationists and I agree the big bang and evolution can coexist with religion to an extent but as far as your comment that evolution still being a theory it is so in only the sense that we do not understand all the mechanisms as to how it works the same as we do not completely understand the mechanisms of gravity hence the reason there is the law of gravity explaining what it does and theory of gravity trying to explain the mechanics. Evolution is a fact yet there remains the theory trying to explain the mechanics of it.

Theory in science takes on a whole different meaning than it does in everyday life hence my signature with further explanation.

a reply to: NthOther

Do you have children? you would be surprised at how well they are able to not just grasp complex ideas but also formulate opinions and dare I say...think for themselves. Why would you think that an 8 year old is being brainwashed and used as a puppet for some insidious plot? What negative connotation can stem from thinking a state fossil is a cool idea? It's not like they don't teach science in the 3rd grade. In fact, it may not necessarily even stem wholly from a scientific point of view. When I was in elementary school we learned about things like state birds, state trees etc... in History. A state fossil is a rather likely extension of such.

a reply to: NthOther

I am not sure what gave you the idea she was lobbying as my article never said that so I looked up some other articles on the subject, they didn't say she was lobbying either, but it did say she sent a letter. I think kids are capable of that.

LAKE CITY, S.C. -- Eight-year-old Olivia McConnell, from New Zion, S.C., is so passionate about science, she can be found searching for -- and finding -- shark's teeth in the playground sand during recess.

Asked why she spends her recess looking for shark's teeth, Olivia replies, "Well, I like fossils."


olivia.jpg
Olivia McConnell CBS NEWS
Her love of fossils led her to discover that South Carolina has no official state fossil. She knew one of the first fossils found in North America, from an ancient kind of woolly mammoth, was dug up in South Carolina, so she wrote to Gov. Nikki Haley and other state lawmakers to lay out the case.
"I wanted it to be the state fossil because I didn't want that history to be lost, and our state to not get credit for it," Olivia says. "If something's wrong I've got to help out. It's just the right thing to do. That's what I'm all about."

At the state Capitol, Olivia's letter went to her senator, Kevin Johnson, who thought a state fossil was a great idea.

www.cbsnews.com...

She seems like a smart kid.

originally posted by: peter vlar

Do you have children? you would be surprised at how well they are able to not just grasp complex ideas but also formulate opinions and dare I say...think for themselves. Why would you think that an 8 year old is being brainwashed and used as a puppet for some insidious plot? What negative connotation can stem from thinking a state fossil is a cool idea? It's not like they don't teach science in the 3rd grade. In fact, it may not necessarily even stem wholly from a scientific point of view. When I was in elementary school we learned about things like state birds, state trees etc... in History. A state fossil is a rather likely extension of such.

I don't think kids are naturally idiots, if that's what you're insinuating.

But 8-year-old girls do not go on political crusades without someone (usually their parents) egging them on for their own vicarious indulgences.

originally posted by: TheToastmanCometh
I think they should elect Olivia and other like-minded tots like her to replace the fossils in the state capitol

In all seriousness, I agree.

a reply to: NthOther

As a father of 3, I strongly disagree that children aren't capable of formulating this level of opinion. I also disagree that its a political crusade. It appeared to me that a child liked mammoth fossils and saw that there were state birds, state trees etc. and thought it would be really cool to have a state fossil. And now that I got hooked on phonics and looked above while typing this and noticed Grimpachi's quoted article I feel vindicated in my earlier assumption. And no, I wasn't insinuating that you think kids are born idiots. I was genuinely curious what your experience level with children was that gave you the basis for your opinion. Background knowledge, due diligence, they make for a more well informed discussion on both sides, wouldn't you agree.? But your statement regarding parents vicarious indulgences makes me question giving the benefit of the doubt.

originally posted by: SoldierCarryingHashbrowns
The phrase "from the mouths of babes" comes to mind here... you'd think something as inoffensive as a state fossil wouldn't ruffle feathers but then I remember that a select few throwbacks are still kicking around...

those throwbacks are heavily congregated (pun:love in the south also. they basically run everything, and yet people wonder about where the stereotypes come from.

How can a fossil of an ancient animal cause so much insecurity?

That alone is known as a 'tell'. a stone cold tell. Why dont the 6,000 year-ers go back to the days of forbidding the wearing of more than one type of fabric (ps, their underwear alone is a sin) or put down the shrimp and lobster (cant eat shellfish).

had to add this, from the Great One.
dinosaurs .lol best way to make a fundamentalist angry