God is the true DEVIL. Lucifer, not so much...

originally posted by: BlackManINC
The entire chapter is dealing with the day of the lord and his wrath poured out in the end times. If you have a problem with God's methods in punishing the wicked, then that is your problem.

Helpless babies who didn't sin yet are not 'wicked'.

In order to understand God, you must first read Christ's teachings in The New Testament, otherwise there will be a vail keeping you from understanding the truth clearly:

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Jesus taught about the good tree and the bad tree and how you will know a person by their fruits.

Each person is responsible for their own wrongdoings, not the wrongdoings of others. This is why we are told to do good to those who hate us, and to forgive enemies and turn the other cheek instead of fighting back (Matthew 5:44).

Proverbs 9:12
If thou be wise, thou shalt be wise for thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.

Galatians 6:4-5
But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. For every man shall bear his own burden.

Galatians 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

originally posted by: arpgme

Helpless babies who didn't sin yet are not 'wicked'.

I don't know what "babies" you are referring to because those weren't even "children". The term "little child" was also used to refer to King Solomon well into his adulthood. You creatures will take the Bible literally when it suits you, while claiming that you understand God in the same breath.

And now, O Lord my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in. - 1 Kings 3

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

I don't know what point you are trying to make with this verse. I guess this is some silly attempt to demonize the old testament by using only a sentence from an entire chapter to rob it of its context. 2 Corinthians 3 is simply pointing out the fact that Jesus fulfilled the prophesies in the old testament describing his coming, of which many Jews to this day do not accept.

originally posted by: BlackManINC
I guess this is some silly attempt to demonize the old testament

No, it has nothing to do with the Old Testament, only the person reading it.

Without Jesus you are still in darkness about what the Old Testament actually says trapped with a vail.

That is why it is important to start with Jesus Christ first.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: DarknStormy

It's never explicitly stated but it is implied. Lucifer literally means the "light bearer", Jesus calls himself "the light of the world", a.k.a. the one who bears the light.

The deceiver you are talking about wrote half of the NT, his name is Paul. He may have claimed to believe in Jesus but he completely changed his message with the epistles he wrote. He is literally the anti-christ, the one who claims to speak for Jesus when in fact he only speaks for himself and his own self-interest and the interests of those over him.

He was a puppet whose strings were pulled by those in power at the time, the Romans. Funny that Paul worked for Rome before his "conversion".

Funny that Paul knew James and peter.

a reply to: Akragon

All creatures, including Adam, the Son of God and Satan must follow the law of God. We can assume a few laws from our own experience.

1. We must be born again. We will return. It's a process that is followed by all life and by all processes in nature.

2. We are baptized into the water of creation. This is a process called involution and evolution. Part of that process requires inconscience, or amnesia. In other words, we cannot remember what came before. Resurrection, or being born again, is the process by which we finally reach union with God in Spirit baptism. Christ is the first fruits of the new man.

The Lord did not know there was another God. The Lord is the Son of God, or Adam. He was the first fruits of man, or the Son of God. We are all part of that seed, or bread.

From this, we can conclude that all creations are required to follow these laws fully. Adam is the Alpha. Jesus was the last Adam, or Omega. In scripture, this is the mark, or Aleph Tav. It appears throughout scripture and is know as the mark. The mark is the opposite of this Hebrew word:

Chet means Sin in Hebrew. It's literal translation is missing the mark, or Tav of creation. The last letter is recognizing who Jesus was. He was Adam. For Christ to be fully human, he was required to be born again. He is the first and last.

The first shall be last and the last first. To say that the Lord is an entity that is not God, you are correct. He is Adam. Until he remembered who he was, he did not serve the true God. It's part of the process for us all. He proclaimed that He was God, and beside him were no others. He was wrong. When Jesus recognizes the Father, this is the first time the Father was proud of the Son. Why? He reached out for the true God.

The Lord of the OT was Adam. He had amnesia and needed to reach out like all of us.

Who wrote the Bible? Man (Adam). We are the body of Christ, or bread that we share as seed. We are all the Lord. Blame him and you blame yourself for the OT. You will be born again.

a reply to: AlephBet

Almost everything you said is purely Paulian thought... Not my thing really...

Plus Adam and eve are nothing more then a myth...


All creatures do not have to follow Gods law... we have a choice... and of course this also depends on what one believes Gods law is...

I prefer the two commandments over the laws of Moses personally...

a reply to: Akragon

Gravity is a law. A crop will not grow unless the last crop yielded seed. Humans die, then are born again. There is plenty of evidence to support this. Paul and Jesus both talked of this same bread of life. Bread is used in relation to the harvest to show us the connection to our life here and the process we all follow. Seed that is crushed makes bread. We are the seed.

You say the OT is false and Paul is false. What of Jesus?

a reply to: AlephBet

What about him?

He is as he claimed... the son of God... He spoke the truth... and his words can be proven to be true IF one chooses to follow them... This can not be said about Paul or the OT...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: AlephBet

What about him?

He is as he claimed... the son of God... He spoke the truth... and his words can be proven to be true IF one chooses to follow them... This can not be said about Paul or the OT...

John 6:35New International Version (NIV)

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

All of us came from Adam. Adam is the Son of God (Alpha) and Jesus is the Omega.

1 Corinthians 10

17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Paul understood why Christ called himself the bread. We are the seed, just as Adam is the Father (DNA) of us all. Christ identified himself as Adam in this verse. Just as Job identified the Redeemer as the one who caused the error in creation. He knew the Redeemer would be Adam.

Job 19

25 I know that my redeemer[c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.[d]
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;
27 I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

28 “If you say, ‘How we will hound him,
since the root of the trouble lies in him,[g]’
29 you should fear the sword yourselves;
for wrath will bring punishment by the sword,
and then you will know that there is judgment.

The root of the trouble came through Adam, the one who is the subject of the verses above. He is the same one called the LORD of the OT who proclaimed Himself God, when he was actually the Son.

a reply to: AlephBet

All of us came from Adam. Adam is the Son of God (Alpha) and Jesus is the Omega.

Now you're twisting revelation into his words as well...

We did not come from Adam... Adam is a myth... Just as the "garden" is a myth

1 Corinthians 10

17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Paul understood why Christ called himself the bread. We are the seed, just as Adam is the Father (DNA) of us all. Christ identified himself as Adam in this verse. Just as Job identified the Redeemer as the one who caused the error in creation. He knew the Redeemer would be Adam.

When you actually think about it... the idea that all sin came from Adam is ridiculous...

Mankind is not "fallen" like Paul claims... We have never changed as a species... We're naturally selfish and greedy... and that did not spring suddenly when adam ate an apple... Its caused by our own nature...

The root of the trouble came through Adam, the one who is the subject of the verses above. He is the same one called the LORD of the OT who proclaimed Himself God, when he was actually the Son.

No... that is just Christian dogma... Jesus did not speak in the OT...

Nor was he in any way related to the so called god of the OT...

Look at what James called God... He said "God is love"... Find any verse in the OT when this so called God shows his love... He/she/it is jealous, envious and wrathful... sure theres lot of claims that this god loves... but he certainly shows nothing of it

a rather pitiful excuse for a God in all honesty