The Cymry or the true history of Britain.

originally posted by: urbanghost
A beaker doesn't prove a whole race of people came to Britain on mass.

Either way, you cannot prove to the contrary. That is the point I have tried to make. There is no evidence either way, although the fact that burials were in the "Beaker custom" provides some indication that contact was more than just selling a few jugs and be done. At least, that's the plausible explanation and therefore the one which is most likely.

Regards

Either way, you cannot prove to the contrary

a reply to: paraphi
Neither theory can be proved as you say yourself. Ideas travel, even burial rituals. It is not the only explanation that is most likely or plausible, both are equally as likely. If there is no evidence either way then how can you possibly say that one theory stands out over another? Do you have the final say on which is more likely? That is just your opinion. Until more evidence to prove they came here on mass turns up, then as you said yourself, you cannot prove to the contrary.
As for Brymbo man, archaeologists say the beaker culture was between 2800 – 1800 BC, with the pottery stopping in use about 1700BC. Yet brymbo man is from 1600BC. See the confusion surrounding the subject? They can't even agree on dates.

A very good article written by Dr Ray Howell from the University of Wales. He wrote a book called Searching for the Silures, it has some new thinking about the celts and the welsh. A lot of what he says is similar to what I am saying.
Here is his bio. Pretty impressive credentials.

Another good article written by Prof. Huw Pryce of Bangor university about the origins of the Welsh.
This is his bio.

Hi. I'm new to this site so hello I'm from the midlands and have found some of this really interesting and sad that we don't learn enough of it in schools... I was just thinking that there could maybe be a link with red hair etc. if so then you can see from the map on the page ive linked below that the most dense populations of redheads in the world are from the uk, specifically Scotland Ireland and Wales.

"the frequency of red hair is highest in Ireland (10 to 30%) and Scotland (10 to 25%), followed by Wales (10 to 15%)".

www.eupedia.com...

a reply to: Rena2160
Welcome to the forum.
The red hair in Wales probably comes from later, traditionally and in descriptions going back to the romans, the Welsh are described as dark curly haired. It could have come from Ireland, Wales and Ireland have had contact for hundreds of years. There is a school of thought that the Celtic influence in Britain doesn't come from the Celts invading but was took on by the inhabitants. There are big differences in the celtic art of Britain, it is similar to La Tène but has much more local influences to it.

This stone is different to most in Wales in that it has what looks like a warrior holding a shield on it. Originally thought to be Christian, it is now thought to have been reused. It was found in Llanbadarn Fawr along with another stone.

The shield held by the figure on the stone is very similar to the way a bronze age wicker shield is constructed. These shields were also made with a bronze skin on them similar to this one found at Rhyd-y-gors.

I have to tell you about the ancient knife I found near Rhayader. It was dowsed as being 3,000 years old but I doubt that it was really that old. I don't think there would be anything much left after all that time. It was a curved lump of rust in long undisturbed soil. The spade damaged it which revealed what appeared to be an inlay of very fine gold wire. Most unusual if that was the case but it was only an impression from visual inspection, I never had it properly looked at. Unfortunately a lady who had no idea what it was threw it on a North Devon tip many years ago.

I found it while digging a hole for an apple tree. The apple variety was 'Discovery'. Very apt. Where the handle had been there was just a faint stain. At the end of the stain was a small nondescript quartz crystal which I wear around my neck in a leather pouch.

The location is a bit sensitive but if you go onto google maps and look for the lake called Llyn Gwyn about halfway between Llandrindod Wells and Rhayader that's very near the site. A large light grey shadow passed beneath me when I was swimming in the middle of that lake one hot day. It didn't take me long to get back to shore. I was told there were Roman remains beside the lake but I don't know if that's true.

Just over the hill towards Llandrindod was where I first saw a black leopard. A local farming lady was with me and drew my attention to it. Once I began talking about it, other people who'd had less distinct sightings said "That must be what I saw".

Abbeycwmhir is not far from there. Weirdness abounds in Abbeycwmhir. I was told the monks used to walk to the summit of a hill there at dawn and they did it for so long they wore out several paths.

I walked over to Abbeycwmhir one day. When I arrived I somehow missed the path to the Abbey. Looking down from the road I realised I was above the Abbey so I cut across a field and approached from above. It was an astounding 'coincidence'. As the interior of the Abbey came into view I saw a distinguished bearded and long haired man lift a sword in front of Llewellyn's memorial stone while several photographers took pictures. It was over and done in that short time and they all filed out of the Abbey. I'm still awestruck by the timing, after that long walk to be there at exactly the right time. I saw that man once again in deep conversation with Richard Booth and a local politician in the grounds of Hay Castle.

a reply to: Kester
There is a roman camp to the north of LLyn Gwyn and a standing stone less than a mile away. There is also a place called the Druids Circle very close to the lake to the east.
LLyn Gwyn means the White Lake. There is a legend attached to it.

St. Patrick passed it on his way to visit St. David. He was accompanied by another saint, and when they reached this lake one of them suggested resting awhile. This was done, and during the halt the saints discussed religion. Coming to a controversial point, the men grew irritable, and St. Patrick was very angry. Several Welsh people overheard the religious quarrel, and expressed surprise and annoyance. St. Patrick in spite turned them into fishes. One of the party was a woman, who was transformed into a white lady. She was often seen accompanied by flashes of light. On account of this insult to St. Patrick, the sun never shines upon the lake but during one week of the year.

a reply to: urbanghost

Thank you.


Flashes of light? I saw a very bright light one night just West of the lake. It was on the spring equinox. At first I thought it was a motorbike headlight then, realising it was too close to be on the road, I thought perhaps someone with a powerful torch. Then it started to move. It accelerated so fast it was impossible to track it far. It went South West towards the valley which I have heard called the Valley of the Princes. I was left with the very strong impression that it was a thinking being. We had been conducting some earth magic on the exact spot it was hovering over when I first saw it.

The lack of sun a little West of the lake I can certainly confirm. In summer the sun rises to the side of the hill and you get plenty of sunshine. In winter, because of the shape of the hill, suddenly the sun is rising behind the hill and you have to wait and wait and wait till it finally rises above the hill. Meanwhile you can see the sunshine on the hill towards Rhayader and it's slow advance towards you. On a frosty morning it's frustrating to see the frost melting within sight but it takes hours for the sun to finally arrive.

a reply to: urbanghost

Would these be large, light grey fish by any chance?

Prior to the romans coming to Britain, the ancient Britons were already mining for resources. The known copper and gold mines were in Wales. Copper and gold were valuable resources in ancient times and whoever possessed them would have had a lot of power. The romans came here because they heard about the wealth of the tribes here through trading. The axes and jewellery were much superior to those made elsewhere.
Because the gold was coming from deep in what is now Wales the tribes there would have been very powerful. Many gold crowns, torcs, bracelets, a bowl and even a gold capefor a horse have been found in Wales.

a reply to: Kester
sorry it doesn't say anything about the type of fish, just that they were turned into them.
Just found this about Rhayader might interest you.

a reply to: urbanghost

There were two small standing stones near there. A local farmer, (who I strongly suspect was the joker who crept up to my remote camp one extremely dark and wet night and fired his shotgun right next to my tent, Oh ha ha ha,) ripped these stones out of the ground. He was actually taking them to the tip, I assume as an insult to anyone who cared since he had a million places on his land he could have put them if they were really in his way. Fortunately a local influential man stopped him and persuaded him to sell the stones. They were then put either side of the influential mans gateway. He told me he was going to move them into a Zen garden behind his house but last time I passed they were still either side if his gateway.

a reply to: Kester
A lot of stones in wales have been moved by land owners. The lady of the manor in Neath in the 19th century had loads moved from her land and into her garden to make a rock garden. They were lost for years when the house was abandoned. Some were very old and one had a carving of a warrior on it.

a reply to: urbanghost

Somehow I missed the Rhayader beast although I was back and forth to that area around that time.

There is a creature that leaves three puncture wounds. A policeman who deals with big cat incidents has said around once a year in his area he's called out to a kill with this triangular 'bite'. He interprets it as a bite but knows there is no animal with this arrangement of teeth capable of killing sheep. I think these are talon wounds.

The theory is a gargoyle type creature hovers in the air in bad weather when there is no chance it will be spotted. It or they can sense fear from many miles away. When a lost hiker is feeling strong fear the creature homes in on the emotion, descends on them and carries them away. I had no inkling of this until I became lost one night in the hills north of Hay. I realised I'd strayed off the path and the fear began to take hold of me. I couldn't stumble on in the dark because of the risk of walking off a cliff. A night in the open in that weather would have been very uncomfortable, ill equipped as I was. I became convinced a gargoyle had sensed my fear and was homing in from a few miles away towards Brecon.

Struggling to contain my emotion I managed to work out how far along the path I'd walked and I realised at that point there were rushes to the left of the path and bracken to the right. Looking down I saw bracken and, relieved, I walked a short way downhill back onto the path. I always put it down to sheer imagination. Then many years later I heard tell of gargoyles in the exact area that I perceived the threat was coming from.

I hope no one's reading this on an iphone while lost in the hills.

a reply to: urbanghost

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: Rena2160


Were there not about 5 major tribes living in what is now Wales at the time the Romans came in? One, the Silurian's, were described by the Romans as being darker completed with black curly hair. Sort of like Tom Jones lol.

a reply to: Logarock

They say Tom Jones is a natural healer. Going to his concerts is like going to Lourdes.

I trust it isn't seen as rude to comment on your signature.
If they really knew better than us they wouldn't have to listen to us.

a reply to: urbanghost

As well as the tin mines in Cornwall. The Phoenicians are thought to have made contact with them to trade for tin, or the mines may have been operated by the Phoenicians themselves.