Can !GUN! people help me answer this question?

a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Yeah the law abiding citizens list, not the domestic terrorist watch list....i hope.

Sorry for derailing OP.

a reply to: Thisbseth

No id call an office and just say you have a question..if you feel safer calling someone else id call an ffl dealer in your area..those guys are usually pretty up to date on all gun laws and they may even be able to help you in other ways...also they are all gun nuts so you may have some things in common!

80% polymer is extremely easy. With an aluminum receiver you'd need a drill press and access to a machine shop.

originally posted by: Thisbseth
a reply to: shaneslaughta

well i was denied for a shotgun when I was 18, I have only Mist. non violent on my record though. So I have been holding off applying again. I am now 25 btw

I was going to pop in here and give some pointers on the best ways to go about building an AR until I read this. It really sounds like you are trying to skirt the law. There is no "legal loophole" to building a firearm for personal use. You can purchase a receiver from an individual and build a rifle on it as long as you are legally allowed to posses firearms.

If you were denied your best bet is to see if you can get approved, and if you cannot get approved find out why. If you have something on your record that prevents the purchase of firearms it may also prevent possession as well.

a reply to: shaneslaughta

NO worries.

a reply to: SpaDe_

Well, Im not trying to get away with it without the law knowing, I said that already. but thanks for the advice.

WEll first you... where you from?

California? Ugh.

Let me help you with about the only thing you can possess there, or soon anyways.

A slingshot.

Yes, it's a good deal ONLY if you know exactly what your doing! If you mess up if could destroy the gun or bring harm to yourself.

I am in training to reloading ammo, it's a long process if you shoot a lot, but a erfff up can't cause harm. Keeps me from doing it myself still, and I have been shooting guns, buying guns, loving guns for 30 years and counting

From what I understand, you can buy all the parts to a gun unregistered, except the lower stock in most states. That's because the lower stock is "considered" the gun.

Problem is. If you don't know what your doing, you'll never finish the project or F it up.

Leave to a professional if you have a customized idea, and pay for it IMO.

Just saying

originally posted by: anon72
WEll first you... where you from?

California? Ugh.

Let me help you with about the only thing you can possess there, or soon anyways.

A slingshot.

slingshots, very dangerous!

Illegal in Juneau, AK. Not kidding either, look it up.

originally posted by: SpaDe_

originally posted by: Thisbseth
a reply to: shaneslaughta

well i was denied for a shotgun when I was 18, I have only Mist. non violent on my record though. So I have been holding off applying again. I am now 25 btw

I was going to pop in here and give some pointers on the best ways to go about building an AR until I read this. It really sounds like you are trying to skirt the law. There is no "legal loophole" to building a firearm for personal use. You can purchase a receiver from an individual and build a rifle on it as long as you are legally allowed to posses firearms.

If you were denied your best bet is to see if you can get approved, and if you cannot get approved find out why. If you have something on your record that prevents the purchase of firearms it may also prevent possession as well.

If you don't know, contact then US Dept of Justice, FBI. NICS, for appealing firearm denial.

NICS website. [email protected]
1-877-444-NICS, if you don't call and resolve your matter to buy a gun, you should not own one!

a reply to: Thisbseth

you can not leagley build a firearm if you are not leagley able to possess one. I was at a local gun shop yesterday, they had complete ar lowers for $90, the part the government considers a gun with a serial number on it. that is the best way to build your own.

It wouldn't be a good weapon for concealed carry, but you can get a .50 caliber air-rifle. No federal paperwork is required. It packs a pretty solid womp.
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: Thisbseth

if you were talking about actual kit guns(like military fire arms in semi automatic form,or full auto with applicable permits) if they do not have an intact receiver(been de milled) you can have kits sent to your door but with out the parts to make it fully functional you need to go buy more things to make an actual gun out of them.

if you are talking about building your own gun via a "stripped" lower reciver you would need a background check for that .the only guns that they will send from the store/place purchased to your door are as follows: 1 any black powder fire arms(meaning no metallic cartridges and needing percussion or flints to set off the powder charge (see BP revolvers and rifles like from colonial times) 2.IF and ONLY if you have what is called a Curio and relic permit you can order a gun online and if it is a curio and or relic it can be sent directly to your door if you possess the relevant permit hope that cleared some things up

as far as i know the only way to buy a modern gun with out a background check is from a private party transfer but even those it behooves the seller to at least look into the buyer to make sure they arent selling to a person who should not possess such weapons

Black powder pistols come sold in kits. Takes about a day to complete. Go buy some Pyrodex loads ( new school). And some proper caliber lead balls, don't forget the wad clothes, new school ones are already greased. Then load, aim, fire. It will kill just as well as a store bought ( wait till your approved) gun. Just as deadly.

Thanks to all that replied that's why I love me some ATS. A lot of different opinions coming together! And now I know where to start with this. I'm interested in more answers if any one else wants to chime in

originally posted by: Thisbseth
Thanks to all that replied that's why I love me some ATS. A lot of different opinions coming together! And now I know where to start with this. I'm interested in more answers if any one else wants to chime in

EDITED TO ADD: It appears that you are in CA. All bets are off, you may well have broken the law just by looking at the word "firearm". What is written below may not apply to you at all.

ALSO EDITED TO ADD (because I should have read the whole thread before replying): If you've been denied once, get that matter resolved before making anything. A misdemeanor is, in some circumstances, capable of making you a prohibited person. Get that cleared up first.

The starting point is that any firearm you can legally possess, you can legally build. If you have the tools and the skills, you can take a few chunks of metal and turn them into a fully functional firearm - provided it is a legal firearm. You do not need to register the firearm in some states, you do not even need to add a serial number in many cases. There's more to it than that, however, and you may be subject to further restrictions, so read the rest before you start building anything!

A firearm is made up of lots of components but usually only one part is actually considered the firearm. In the case of the AR15, that is the "lower". The other parts are not restricted at the Federal level (with some exceptions, notably silencers).

An important difference (and this is where the 80% lower comes in) is whether you are making your firearm for personal use, or to sell. If you make a firearm with the intention of selling it, you need to have a Federal Firearms License. Slight oversimplification, but sufficient for now. Another important point is who builds it?

There is a point where your hunk of metal stops being a hunk of metal and is legally considered a firearm. The general rule at the moment is "80%" - once it is more than 80% complete then it is a firearm and subject to all the requirements and restrictions of any other firearm. If it's only 80% then it's still just a hunk of metal and completely unregulated. A number of companies are now manufacturing these "almost-but-not-enough" 80% kits for people to complete at home. As long as you personally are the one who takes it from 80% up to 100%, it's a personal build. You can't take it to a machine shop for them to complete or get a friend to do the work for you unless they have a FFL. It has to be you. You could use a friend's workshop if they have the tools, but it's got to be you doing the work.

So how do you know when something is 80% completed? You don't. The BATF sort of make it up as they go along. What a manufacturer will usually do is to submit a prototype to the BATF and get a letter stating whether the technical branch consider it to be a firearm. Once the company makes it too easy to complete (ie drilling all the holes, marking all the cutting points, broaching the magazine well, etc) then it will be treated as a firearm. This is the current issue with Ares Armor that probably triggered your original question. Actually, the AA issue is slightly more complex as part of the allegation seems to be that AA make >80% lower (so it legally becomes a firearm) but then "backfill" part of it so that is no longer >80% - however, once it has "become" a firearm it can't "unbecome" one and should have been sold in compliance with the usual firearms rules. "Who is correct" is another thread entirely, especially given AA's manufacturing process.

There are then a number of other rules - mostly made up by the BATF as they go along - that also need to be followed for it to be legal. If the firearm you make can be easily converted to full auto, you have a problem. For example, you could build a semi-automatic Uzi which could also fit a full auto bolt. This would be bad juju. To stay out of trouble, you would need to make your Uzi incompatible with a full auto bolt - which could include welding "denial islands" into the frame so that only a semi-auto bolt with a matching cutout would fit. If you make a rifle with a barrel below 16" or an overall length < 23"(?need to confirm) then you've made a SBR which needs to be registered and a tax stamp obtained.

Once past the Federal hurdles, you might also have local restrictions. I believe that SBRs are not legal in some states, even if registered and with a tax stamp. California has some really weird and wacky requirements, especially.

I've mentioned one or two restrictions, your best best is to research into the full list yourself. There are probably forums on the internet that will have more specialist knowledge and can help you through the process while staying legal.

So, back to your original question. Can you buy the individual components and have them mailed to you? Certainly. Lots of people do. The only issue is with the part that is classified as the actual firearm, for example the lower on the AR15. If you order a completed lower, you would have to go through all the same steps as purchasing a complete firearm, including having to have it delivered to a local FFL who will then complete any background checks before handing it over to you.

If you want to order a 80% lower, you can do that and have it delivered without restriction. You will need access to a reasonable amount of tools to complete the job, as well as having the experience with the tools to use them properly. Remember, you need to achieve a relatively high level of precision for everything to work together and one wrong cut will leave you with a worthless paperweight.

Plenty of people build their own firearms this way, there should be plenty of resources online for doing it. It's no different to the people who build their own kit cars, or kit planes, or kit RC helicopters. Just please, for the love of the deity of your choice, make sure you check the laws at both the state and federal level so you know what features it can or cannot have!

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer in your jurisdiction, please take appropriate legal advice, etc etc

If you wanna build a gun just buy a reasonably good quality hobby mill, a reasonably good quality bench top drill press and a reasonably good quality benchtop lathe and some other fixtures and jigs and reasonable good tooling.

Don't buy the combo lathe/ mill/ drill presses, they don't work as well and cost more.

Learning how to read prints and measure stuff with semi-exotic tools is a good thing to do too.

You can go as far as building a gun from scratch with these tools, which is really, really fun.

It's really quite easy, and very LEGAL.

Practice with scrap until you can cut what you want to end up with and enjoy learning the black art of "metalworking"....

I can make virtually anything I need myself, there is a lot of near arrogant satisfaction which comes along with that ability....

If I remember right....... the lower reseaver is not considered the wepon. Its the upper that has to be bought at all paper work done on. You can buy a completed upper or stripped upper but it cant be shipped to your home address, it has to be shipped to a dealer thats where the paperwork will be done.

ETA its the lower thats registered sorry for the disinfo.

originally posted by: hillbilly4rent
If I remember right....... the lower reseaver is not considered the wepon. Its the upper that has to be bought at all paper work done on. You can buy a completed upper or stripped upper but it cant be shipped to your home address, it has to be shipped to a dealer thats where the paperwork will be done.

In many cases the serial number is on the lower receiver/frame (certainly for AR15s), which becomes the regulated part.