The bible is the bait and hook the "devil" uses to get you.

a reply to: adjensen

because the church doesn't teach it

The Church teaches very little of what Jesus actually taught, and sometimes it teaches exactly the opposite.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Pathetic. And so far off course it's laughable.

The same could be said of the OP.

Just a little FYI there...

a reply to: adjensen

I'm not really interested in getting into this debate for about the millionth time.

You asked why Christians don't believe in reincarnation, and I told you. We don't believe it because the church doesn't teach it

OH! Well then....if the church doesn't teach it....then that's all the answer needed, I guess. 'My teacher/the school doesn't teach that, so it can't be true. Just ignore it.' Okay. Got it.

I'll just go back to my vapid idiotic musings and entertain myself and possibly any others who get what I'm talking about. And of course set myself up for condemnation and judgment and belittling by those who disagree with my attitude.

a reply to: adjensen

a reply to: BuzzyWigs He didn't say "you must be baptized." Actually, yes he did. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. (Mark 16:16 NIV) The bit in John that I quoted is clearly talking about two kinds of birth, not two occurrences of the same kind of birth. All other debates on the matter aside, Elijah never died, so he couldn't have been reincarnated into the person of John the Baptist (who directly rejected claims that he was Elijah, as well.)

But are the baptized thru water and them setting a cross over your third eye sensors what Jesus was after or baptized in spirit thru the crown to the third eye?

Is the ritual that the organised church do for your good or to blind you and disconnect you from god?

a reply to: Murgatroid

The same could be said of the OP.

Just a little FYI there...

Thanks. Duly notated.
I don't believe in 'the devil' either.

Do you??

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm not really interested in getting into this debate for about the millionth time.

You asked why Christians don't believe in reincarnation, and I told you. We don't believe it because the church doesn't teach it, and it is not seen as being supported in scripture. Whether non-Christians agree with it or not, or what their interpretation of scripture is, isn't really necessary to explain why we don't believe in reincarnation.

You are lumping so many people in such strict mind frames. One does not have to be a non-Christian to believe in reincarnation, and some interpretations DO find enough scriptural "evidence". Kind of like the rapture, but less dramatic.

Believing in the bible, hell, a rapture, reincarnation or whatever other concept is up to the Christian individual, not his community. In this case, a hive mentality does not work considering you supposedly don't have a collective soul, but an eternal, individual one....right?

a reply to: Murgatroid

Got any reasons for that or are we just going by the assumed fallacy that the bible is immune to being corrupted while everything else in the world (including the church) is fair game?

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Pathetic. And so far off course it's laughable.

The same could be said of the OP.

Just a little FYI there...

A nervous kind of laughter I'm sure .

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
I believe in the TRUTH...

It's something you don't see to often nowadays'.

I think Mr. Ellner says it well:

Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destroy health. Lawyers destroy justice. Universities destroy knowledge. Governments destroy freedom. The major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality. ~ Michael Ellner

BTW, LOVE the new avatar... awesome.

a reply to: Murgatroid

I believe in the TRUTH...

It's something you don't see to often nowadays'.

Me, too!!!
High five.

(and thanks. I like it, too.)

if a person has to blame a mythical construct - the devil - for their misdeeds
oh noes....
seriously
boogie men went out of style for most people at about age three
so please turn in your gun(s) because anything you do with it will be the gun's fault

believing the truth...isn't that faith?
knowing the truth...well now, thats a hole nuther thing altogether

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Murgatroid

The same could be said of the OP.

Just a little FYI there...

Thanks. Duly notated.
I don't believe in 'the devil' either.

Do you??

Depends on the definition of "the devil".

Normally I think of it as a personification of collective ego selfish (demonic) behavioral tendencies/patterns that we have not grown out of yet as souls. And the ones heightened with level of ego selfish (demonic) behavioral tendencies/patterns seem to be good sometimes in cooperating in their feeding on others. On some levels that are in fact energy vampires.

But then from my point of view there are some true satanist hiding within the Christian Church as you notice by the fruit of the Christian Church.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

On some levels that are in fact energy vampires.

Mmm....
now "energy vampires" are something I do believe in.
But that's for another thread.

a reply to: Murgatroid

That quote is so extremely spot on from my point of view also.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Reincarnation doesn't simply mean the afterlife and never has.. People can reincarnate in this lifetime if they choose to, what do you think the meaning of a "Born Again Christian" is? You could be a criminal and decide to follow the path of religion or something, either way you are prepared to reinvent yourself for the betterment of yourself and the people around you. That's if you don't get caught up in cults and crap of course. When it comes down to it, you can only change the course and thought process of your spirit, no-one else can.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Murgatroid

Got any reasons for that or are we just going by the assumed fallacy that the bible is immune to being corrupted while everything else in the world (including the church) is fair game?

Why would this not be possible? In a universe created implying a Creator,
it takes no imagination and only limited understanding to consider that it
may indeed be industructable.

Because that's what truth is Kraz. Unchanging and indestructable.

Put that in your science book.

originally posted by: randyvs

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Murgatroid

Got any reasons for that or are we just going by the assumed fallacy that the bible is immune to being corrupted while everything else in the world (including the church) is fair game?

Why would this not be possible? In a universe created implying a Creator,
it takes no imagination and only limited understanding to consider that it
may indeed be industructible.

Because that's what truth is Kraz. Unchanging and indestructible.

Put that in your science book.

Those are a lot of feel good words and rhetoric, but not very good at explaining why the bible is immune to corruption. As I've mentioned, the church isn't immune to this corruption. God obviously doesn't protect the very institution that is charged with spreading the word of god to the masses, so what makes you think he'd protect the vessel used to do so?

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Reincarnation doesn't simply mean the afterlife and never has.. People can reincarnate in this lifetime if they choose to, what do you think the meaning of a "Born Again Christian" is? You could be a criminal and decide to follow the path of religion or something, either way you are prepared to reinvent yourself for the betterment of yourself and the people around you. That's if you don't get caught up in cults and crap of course. When it comes down to it, you can only change the course and thought process of your spirit, no-one else can.

What's the difference between a cult and a religion? Serious question.

a reply to: DarknStormy

When it comes down to it, you can only change the course and thought process of your spirit, no-one else can.

Correct. And it takes many, many stints here (or in other worlds/dimensions) to get to the goal.
But, the really really good news is that we all make it. Eventually.

Screw up as much as it takes. You'll be fine. We all will.

I would like to interject a few of my own thoughts regarding Satan or the Devil as I see him/her. First of all it is stated by the Bible that Lucifer was created perfect. It is also believed that he was one of the covering cherubs ( abided in the presence of God ). If these things are true( And I believe they are). It sets up a scenario that makes a lot of sense as far as from a development of energy stand point. First of all if lucifer was a created being ( I don't think that many Christians will argue against this) he as well as us was created without his own consent ( for obvious reasons) as such.... ultimately he is not at fault for his existence or the results of it. Also since he was created perfect I have to believe that he is fulfilling his purpose as the "perfect" adversary. In other words if the potential for sin exists within a certain set of parameters then that sin must be developed to it's fullest extent and overcome at that level or the potential for it to rise again still exists. Therefore it makes sense to create the being that would be used to develop it "perfect".

Now while I am on the subject of perfection I think it would do each of us well to try as much as we can to put ourselves in Lucifer's shoes so to speak. The Bible says that he was perfect until "iniquity" was found in him. Now we are not told how much time elapsed between his creation and when this "iniquity" was found.....but, I think it is safe to assume that it was probably much longer than a current human life. Now... let's say that it was only 100yrs ( it could have been eons) but even if it was only 100yrs let's imagine the scenario. You are Lucifer... you are better than every other created entity you are ALWAYS right and you are NEVER wrong. You are smarter then everyone else and you are better at "EVERYTHING" then everyone else. How long do you think it would take you to first of all realize you are wrong and second of all admit you are wrong??

Now another part of being created "perfect" that needs to be considered is that when you are already at the top there is nowhere to go but down. The Bible speaks of how he is "FALLEN" now. I don't have time to go into all of the ramifications of these dynamics but I will say that I fully believe that everything is going according to plan and there is a very bright lining to this very dark cloud. I will throw out a few topics that would be good food for thought regarding this subject. Jesus said it is "NECESSARY" for offenses to come. Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is " NOT DIVIDED". God said Esau I have hated and Jacob I have loved that it might be according to election ( Think of the casting of the lot between the goats on the day of atonement). Think of the day-of-at-onement in general. There are other aspects to this subject that could be addressed but I am out of time for now. The bible does contain much truth but we have been conditioned to look at the bible from a distorted perspective. The bottom line to me is the only thing that can keep us from coming to a correct understanding of the truth is for us to not want to know or to hold on to false beliefs because we are afraid to let go and trust God to lead us. Ultimately human wisdom cannot unravel the mystery but even the simplest mind can come to know the truth if it is open to leading.

Harry