Why does proof of God somehow destroy the concept of Faith??

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

It's the aspect of what is most important to you.

When you lack material comforts you have an easier time learning how to value other things - your health, your family, your spiritual life - things that are more substantial and meaningful than simple material goods. When all you've ever known is a life of material ease, it's easier to remain shallow and focused on those creature comforts.

In the Bible when Jesus questions the rich young man and tells him to give up all he has, many assumes the moral is that you cannot be rich and enter Heaven. That's not the lesson I take at all. The lesson I take is that the young man is so focused on the material that that's the lesson he drew. In the end, it's the willingness to realize that no matter how comfortable you are here and no matter how much you have, it's nothing in the next life, so you better be willing to give it all up if necessary. Your spiritual life better be more important to you. That's the lesson Christ taught.

It's a lesson of maturity.

I agree that proof of god removes misconceptions you might have of god that religion teaches. Knowledge is very different than faith.

I have a feeling faith that is referred too is probably about how to manifest things by believing something will be and manifest it thru a chi flow. But then that is a thing that the priest do not tell you about.

a reply to: DuckforcoveR
I think another key phrase in regards to this topic is:
"believing and knowing are two different things"

a reply to: AfterInfinity
That script was pure awesome. Wish it had been animated by the Fleishers or John K.

Why does proof of God somehow destroy the concept of Faith??

Why !? It is simple. Because Paul ruined Christianity and he made people think that Jesus is God ! He opposed Saint Peter.

The OP is on the same road that led me to my unfaith (well, I tried to sorta have faith at times in the past, then I read the bible), the path to agnostic/atheism.
Just keep asking questions and you will lose your faith eventually.

Or, you can stop questioning and believe it with no evidence whatsoever.



ALL HAIL THOR!
(the hammer's comin' down!)

originally posted by: Toadmund
The OP is on the same road that led me to my unfaith (well, I tried to sorta have faith at times in the past, then I read the bible), the path to agnostic/atheism.
Just keep asking questions and you will lose your faith eventually.

Or, you can stop questioning and believe it with no evidence whatsoever.



ALL HAIL THOR!
(the hammer's comin' down!)

FOOL! How dare you acknowledge Thor as your deity? Zeus and his divine brothers of the Pantheon will smite your lightning god and rain his ashes across your land! You will know a trembling of the earth such as you'd never dare imagine as the fallout of his execution lays waste to hundreds of miles of cities and villages and plunges your world into a smothering darkness so deep you can't hear yourself begging for mercy!

...Otherwise described as a volcanic eruption.

Proof of God does NOT destroy faith. It is the reason of true faith.

Scripture tells us that true faith is based on things, facts, that are provable and real, while they are not seen:

(Hebrews 11:1) Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

It is an assured expectation. For example, if I told you the sun is going to rise in the east tomorrow, you would not doubt it. You haven't seen it happen yet, but we have faith that it will. Why? Because the set laws of the universe make it work orderly. And every day for the past 4.5 billion years or so it has done so. So we have a good foundation for putting faith in the fact that it will do so tomorrow.

Scripture tells us that faith is not based on emotion or feelings, rather it is based on facts and reasoning:

(Romans 12:1) . . .Consequently I entreat YOU by the compassions of God, brothers, to present YOUR bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with YOUR power of reason.

It also says that one should continue to prove whether they are in the faith or not:

(2 Corinthians 13:5) 5 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are.. . .

When in the first century Paul preached about the good news of Jesus Christ, for example, he reasoned with people with the holy scriptures then available, and proved that he was the foretold Messiah:

(Acts 17:3) . . .explaining and proving by references . . .

-----


Why does God allow suffering? The Bible tells us that his right to rule mankind has been challenged. Jehovah God in his wisdom has allowed man to rule himself for a time. He has foretold that mankind ruling himself would result in much heartache and lead to no salvation:

(Ecclesiastes 8:9) . . .man has dominated man to his injury.

(Psalm 146:3) . . .Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.


Man has haughtily rejected God's rule. So he has stepped back and let him rule himself. The problems you see on earth, famines, earthquakes, hurricanes, genetic defects, sickness, death, crime, violence, hatred, war, and the plethora of other plagues that scourge mankind are not of God's doing.

He will step in when he deems it right. The time is soon at hand. There will be undeniable evidence of man's incompetancy to rule himself.

Then God will establish a government of righteousness up over all the earth:

(Daniel 2:44) “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

Under Jesus kingdom government, all wickedness will be done away with. Death will be brought to nothing, famine will be no more. There will be no more natural disasters. No more war. Peace will reign to the ends of the earth forevermore. Mankind will be brought back to perfection.

All of the things mankind has been unable to do, God will do.

You have the opportunity now to decide where you stand. For God or for this wicked world. The choice is yours.

He is not aloof, he is not uncaring. He has patiently permitted rebellion on earth for a few thousand years, a mere few days to his eyes. When he snuffs it out never again will he allow wickedness and rebellion, here or anywhere else in the universe.

Earth will stand as a testament to all future generations here and elsewhere wherever life may be planted that rebellion from God rule only brings misery and death. And mankind will be so full of examples of the folly of leaving God's rule, never again will he have to allow it anywhere else in the universe.

Imperfection is an aberration, a spot, that has only been allowed for a short while. And it will be soon done away with.

And never again will the universe see it again.


(Psalm 72:7) 7 In his days the righteous one will sprout, And the abundance of peace until the moon is no more.

(Isaiah 35:1) . . .The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron.

(Revelation 21:4) . . .And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

originally posted by: iSomeone
Proof of God does NOT destroy faith. It is the reason of true faith.

Scripture tells us that true faith is based on things, facts, that are provable and real, while they are not seen:

(Hebrews 11:1) Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

It is an assured expectation. For example, if I told you the sun is going to rise in the east tomorrow, you would not doubt it. You haven't seen it happen yet, but we have faith that it will. Why? Because the set laws of the universe make it work orderly. And every day for the past 4.5 billion years or so it has done so. So we have a good foundation for putting faith in the fact that it will do so tomorrow.

Scripture tells us that faith is not based on emotion or feelings, rather it is based on facts and reasoning:

(Romans 12:1) . . .Consequently I entreat YOU by the compassions of God, brothers, to present YOUR bodies a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God, a sacred service with YOUR power of reason.

It also says that one should continue to prove whether they are in the faith or not:

(2 Corinthians 13:5) 5 Keep testing whether YOU are in the faith, keep proving what YOU yourselves are.. . .

When in the first century Paul preached about the good news of Jesus Christ, for example, he reasoned with people with the holy scriptures then available, and proved that he was the foretold Messiah:

(Acts 17:3) . . .explaining and proving by references . . .

-----


Why does God allow suffering? The Bible tells us that his right to rule mankind has been challenged. Jehovah God in his wisdom has allowed man to rule himself for a time. He has foretold that mankind ruling himself would result in much heartache and lead to no salvation:

(Ecclesiastes 8:9) . . .man has dominated man to his injury.

(Psalm 146:3) . . .Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.


Man has haughtily rejected God's rule. So he has stepped back and let him rule himself. The problems you see on earth, famines, earthquakes, hurricanes, genetic defects, sickness, death, crime, violence, hatred, war, and the plethora of other plagues that scourge mankind are not of God's doing.

He will step in when he deems it right. The time is soon at hand. There will be undeniable evidence of man's incompetancy to rule himself.

Then God will establish a government of righteousness up over all the earth:

(Daniel 2:44) “And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

Under Jesus kingdom government, all wickedness will be done away with. Death will be brought to nothing, famine will be no more. There will be no more natural disasters. No more war. Peace will reign to the ends of the earth forevermore. Mankind will be brought back to perfection.

All of the things mankind has been unable to do, God will do.

You have the opportunity now to decide where you stand. For God or for this wicked world. The choice is yours.

He is not aloof, he is not uncaring. He has patiently permitted rebellion on earth for a few thousand years, a mere few days to his eyes. When he snuffs it out never again will he allow wickedness and rebellion, here or anywhere else in the universe.

Earth will stand as a testament to all future generations here and elsewhere wherever life may be planted that rebellion from God rule only brings misery and death. And mankind will be so full of examples of the folly of leaving God's rule, never again will he have to allow it anywhere else in the universe.

Imperfection is an aberration, a spot, that has only been allowed for a short while. And it will be soon done away with.

And never again will the universe see it again.


(Psalm 72:7) 7 In his days the righteous one will sprout, And the abundance of peace until the moon is no more.

(Isaiah 35:1) . . .The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron.

(Revelation 21:4) . . .And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

"The evident demonstration of realities though not beheld" is a contradiction of terms if ever I saw one. 'Evident' is the opposite of 'not beheld'. Also, the hate of imperfection is an ugly thing. It is the hate of uniqueness, of art, of beauty. There is no beauty in perfection because there is no beauty in arrogance.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Perfection is not arrogant. In fact Jehovah God and Jesus Christ two perfect beings with immortality have clothed themselves with humility they themselves being immortal:

(Psalm 45:4) . . .And in your splendor go on to success; Ride in the cause of truth and humility [and] righteousness,. . .

In fact God likes humility so much and hates arrogance so much that he says he takes action against the arrogant, while he glorifies the humble:

(James 4:6) . . .Hence it says: “God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.”

(Proverbs 3:34) If it has to do with ridiculers, he himself will deride; but to the meek ones he will show favor.

(1 Peter 5:5) . . .God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.



As far as being able to know something is real, or is to happen, although you cannot see it, real things can be without being able to be seen. There is no contradiction there.

I used an example above, I think is worthy of noting again, as it appears you missed it:

For example, if I told you the sun is going to rise in the east tomorrow, you would not doubt it. You haven't seen it happen yet, but we have faith that it will. Why? Because the set laws of the universe make it work orderly. And every day for the past 4.5 billion years or so it has done so. So we have a good foundation for putting faith in the fact that it will do so tomorrow.

As far as art and beauty. All of these things are gifts from Jehovah the perfect God. And there is much beauty and art in perfection. Just look at creation. Look at the universe. Or look at a sunset, or a clear mountain glade on a clear day, or hear the laugh of a baby.

Imperfection is a blight to humanity, and it will be done away with.

a reply to: DuckforcoveR

The faith the Bible speaks of is not meant to be blind faith, but a faith built on certain knowledge which ensues in complete trust in God.

Churches which cannot put you into personal contact with your Creator have told and retold this lie of 'blind faith' over the centuries, but it is only to cover this deficiency.

I believe that we place too much emphasis on this physical reality and our mortal bodies, but these are not the ultimate goal of our being created.

Terrible things do happen to good people, because we are not under God or His protection. Come Judgment Day all those who did terrible things will pay a price we can only shudder at. Knowing this should fill us with a compassion and pity for them that 'know not what they do'! I for one don't want to face the vengeance that is God's!

When you worship you need to be very sure of who it is that you are worshipping! Too many of us are on our knees in front of the toilet praying into the bowl... spiritually speaking.

originally posted by: DuckforcoveR
a reply to: tsingtao

What I want is my own personal satisfaction that God "A" is an ass, God "B" is merciful but not as strong as God "C" (who's a complete egomaniac by the way) and so on.

Not really, by the way, as I said above. I just want to know why people keep preaching that proof negates faith. Why does KNOWING god (or many gods) exist completely disregard the ability for us to decide whether or not their Doctrine is what we want to adhere to.

Nothing more

well hey, good luck with that.

when u get it sorted out, let us know. ok?

i know the truth, and i'm a dummy.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: Toadmund
The OP is on the same road that led me to my unfaith (well, I tried to sorta have faith at times in the past, then I read the bible), the path to agnostic/atheism.
Just keep asking questions and you will lose your faith eventually.

Or, you can stop questioning and believe it with no evidence whatsoever.



ALL HAIL THOR!
(the hammer's comin' down!)

FOOL! How dare you acknowledge Thor as your deity? Zeus and his divine brothers of the Pantheon will smite your lightning god and rain his ashes across your land! You will know a trembling of the earth such as you'd never dare imagine as the fallout of his execution lays waste to hundreds of miles of cities and villages and plunges your world into a smothering darkness so deep you can't hear yourself begging for mercy!

...Otherwise described as a volcanic eruption.

no, you know they died when people stopped believing in them, right?

a reply to: iSomeone

Perfection is not arrogant. In fact Jehovah God and Jesus Christ two perfect beings with immortality have clothed themselves with humility they themselves being immortal

I don't feel either were perfect.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: iSomeone

Perfection is not arrogant. In fact Jehovah God and Jesus Christ two perfect beings with immortality have clothed themselves with humility they themselves being immortal

I don't feel either were perfect.

That is fine, and it is understandable. Most people on earth know little to nothing about them. To help you get to know them a little bit more here are a few passages referring to Jehovah's perfection, and Jesus':

(Deuteronomy 32:4) . . .The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he.

(Psalm 19:7) The law of Jehovah is perfect, bringing back the soul.


(James 1:17) Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, for it comes down from the Father of the [celestial] lights, and with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow.
----

(Hebrews 4:15) . . . For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.


(1 Peter 2:22) He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.

originally posted by: iSomeone

originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: iSomeone

Perfection is not arrogant. In fact Jehovah God and Jesus Christ two perfect beings with immortality have clothed themselves with humility they themselves being immortal

I don't feel either were perfect.

That is fine, and it is understandable. Most people on earth know little to nothing about them. To help you get to know them a little bit more here are a few passages referring to Jehovah's perfection, and Jesus':

(Deuteronomy 32:4) . . .The Rock, perfect is his activity, For all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; Righteous and upright is he.

(Psalm 19:7) The law of Jehovah is perfect, bringing back the soul.


(James 1:17) Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, for it comes down from the Father of the [celestial] lights, and with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow.
----

(Hebrews 4:15) . . . For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin.


(1 Peter 2:22) He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth.

Lots of assumptions being made here...

originally posted by: iSomeone
Proof of God does NOT destroy faith. It is the reason of true faith.

Ohhhh, boy!
No need of faith with proof, so yes, it does do away with the need for faith.

True faith? Like...real belief with no proof, as opposed to 'not real' belief?

Who is faithier, Bob, or Pete?

-Proof of God does NOT destroy faith. It is the reason of true faith.-
What does this statement mean?
Religious Mumbo Jumbo.

originally posted by: Toadmund

originally posted by: iSomeone
Proof of God does NOT destroy faith. It is the reason of true faith.

Ohhhh, boy!
No need of faith with proof, so yes, it does do away with the need for faith.

True faith? Like...real belief with no proof, as opposed to 'not real' belief?

Who is faithier, Bob, or Pete?

-Proof of God does NOT destroy faith. It is the reason of true faith.-
What does this statement mean?
Religious Mumbo Jumbo.

I have a feeling that you came to mock and make fun, and troll. If I'm wrong let me know. Because all those questions you asked were answered above, and you chose to ignore them, and instead choose to ridicule. Again, let me know if I'm wrong.