Edward Snowden - How did this man get to where he is? Not an ideal Canadidate

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Bilk22

Okay, I'll bite and I'm curious... What exactly do you mean by fabrication? The SVR creating him to mole in and then come back with a goodie bag, or our side made him as a disinfo double, or both working together to use the 'Snowden brand' to snow the public on whatever comes up?

If you mean the latter...It sure isn't lost on me that Snowden is the little Da Nang dive shack or St Louis Records fire of leakage potential for anything that may be important enough to shovel out that way. It comes with a near perfect credibility a segment of the world will accept, site unseen. It's like a golden transmission line for propaganda while it lasts, if that could be what it's all about.

It would be a clever move to actually counter Manning's damage in some ways that make it look like it compliments it, if Snowden remained loyal to his employers on this. (Pretty spy novel on that tho.. I admit)

Yes I think Snowden was a plant by the current administration. It serves many purposes. Most of which you hit on. It also achieves what I said earlier - that it was the way to move people toward accepting the surveillance state. They couldn't come out and say this is how it's going to be from now on. That would have sent even the most oblivious into a frenzy. But doing it this way, it causes a chaotic reaction where people don't know what they support - some see it as treason by Snowden, some see it as patriotic, further some see the data collecting as necessary for national security and others see it as overreaching. You can read it in posts. Some think Snowden is a traitor, but do not support the data collecting. There's no unified response. If it were just announced that "we're taking your privacy away", most everyone would agree they don't want that. Now Snowden and what he did is the issue and spying and data gathering on everyone is the sidebar. Heck what are we discussing here? Snowden and not the overreach by the feds.

I think people are giving the CIA/NSA too much credit. To be fair, there are some very smart people there, but like in any job most of the employees are average or worse.

You don't need to be a genius to know how to use these tools, you don't even have to be a genius to know how to make them. Anyone with an 11th grade education in math, 6 months education in programming/databases, and a handful of reference materials has the proper knowledge to make the spy software that is being used (though maybe you need some creativity to figure out how to use that knowledge). The hardest part is getting hardware access and the government can provide that.

Snowden had a semi technical background and could have arguably self taught anything else he needed to know. Getting hired on and then getting the government preferential treatment to promote from within explains how he got the CIA position. Booz Allen sees his resume and hires him for quite a bit of money. It's not the first time someone has been overpaid relative to their experience and it sure won't be the last.

Everything he said should worry you, not because of the shadow government but because if he had access to it, how many other perfectly average people also have this type of access, and what can they do with it? That was part of his entire point. He's not special. Neither are the other people who use this software. That holds true for the person at NSA who is spying on you and the person at your ISP who is spying on you.

originally posted by: Aazadan
I think people are giving the CIA/NSA too much credit. To be fair, there are some very smart people there, but like in any job most of the employees are average or worse.

I agree with you on this and this is a pretty big reason why I have a problem with the "Snowden was head hunted" line of reasoning that some people take. There was no reason to headhunt Snowden, or any other IT guy.

originally posted by: AazadanSnowden had a semi technical background and could have arguably self taught anything else he needed to know. Getting hired on and then getting the government preferential treatment to promote from within explains how he got the CIA position.

I normally would agree with you but not in this case. The CIA, and by that I mean the intelligence element of the CIA and not the part that handles general hiring for non-intelligence related activity, is exempt from preferential treatment of any kind so Snowden's position as a security guard for them would have given him no preferential treatment, it would have been based solely on his qualifications and he didn't even come close to what they say they prefer.

originally posted by: Goteborg
I normally would agree with you but not in this case. The CIA, and by that I mean the intelligence element of the CIA and not the part that handles general hiring for non-intelligence related activity, is exempt from preferential treatment of any kind so Snowden's position as a security guard for them would have given him no preferential treatment, it would have been based solely on his qualifications and he didn't even come close to what they say they prefer.

If nothing else he would have seen the internal job posting and been able to apply. I don't know how accurate the no preferential treatment line is, but lets say he gets enough preference that his application is taken and he's given a test to see if he has the skills. Then lets say he passes the test. That opportunity to prove he had the skills may have been all he needed, as a random person his poor resume and education background wouldn't have gotten him the test, but as a government employee it did.

Something as simple as that could explain it all. Sometimes just having that connection to be able to take the skill test is all you need.

originally posted by: Aazadan
If nothing else he would have seen the internal job posting and been able to apply.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that he had applied, but that's a far cry from being hired.

originally posted by: Aazadan I don't know how accurate the no preferential treatment line is, but lets say he gets enough preference that his application is taken and he's given a test to see if he has the skills.

The no preferential treatment line is accurate:

fedshirevets.gov...

Not only is the CIA exempt but so is the postal service which surprised me because you'd think they would be all about EEOC.

The test you mention, whatever that may be, is where I really start to question the stories about Snowden. His "military training" was red flag number one for me but this is number two. When CIA positions open up they are extremely competitive because CIA jobs are pretty good jobs and from what we've been told about Snowden he wouldn't have been anywhere near the cream of the crop so why would the CIA waste their time with Snowden? The background story relies on Snowden being shown some sort of preference but there was no preference so barring some other compelling reason for the CIA to waste their time with him I have an extremely difficult time believing the story we've been fed about Snowden.

originally posted by: Aazadan Then lets say he passes the test. That opportunity to prove he had the skills may have been all he needed, as a random person his poor resume and education background wouldn't have gotten him the test, but as a government employee it did.

The skills are secondary. Obviously you have to have the skills to do whatever job you want to apply for but the CIA is looking for well educated people with experience who can gain a security clearance. The skills alone mean nothing so Snowden needed a lot more than the opportunity to prove he could work in IT.

originally posted by: AazadanSomething as simple as that could explain it all. Sometimes just having that connection to be able to take the skill test is all you need.

Already commented on. I understand where you're coming from here and I think you're probably closer to the truth than some people are, I too like to look for simple explanations because they're usually true. The problem with Snowden's backstory and in particular his alleged entrance into the CIA is that I think there are far too many "what-ifs" involved.

Snowden had to have been cleared at one point in order to work for BAH, the question is where and when? There's a defense contractor near me, you need a security clearance just to work as a janitor in that place. Gaining a clearance working for a contractor seems far more plausible to me than the story we've been told about Snowden and his background with intelligence agencies because according to the story Snowden wasn't an intelligence operative, he was an IT guy.

None of this really matters anyway. Assume for a second that everything we've been told about Snowden's background is true, it still doesn't explain how he did what he did. Edward Snowden described himself as having root access to the NSA network. Think about that. That means that Snowden had to have been cleared and granted access to every code word the government uses in order to classify intelligence and I don't believe that.

originally posted by: Goteborg
None of this really matters anyway. Assume for a second that everything we've been told about Snowden's background is true, it still doesn't explain how he did what he did. Edward Snowden described himself as having root access to the NSA network. Think about that. That means that Snowden had to have been cleared and granted access to every code word the government uses in order to classify intelligence and I don't believe that.

That's the part I find most believable actually. People do a lot of stupid things with technology, I know for a fact that private companies follow similar procedures. In the IT world it's usually one rule for them (access to everything, little if any monitors) and one rule for everyone else (everyone is locked down, everything is tracked). I don't see why something that is standard practice in the private sector would suddenly change, when most employees in those positions come from the private sector. Most members of management don't really understand technology so when those in IT say it's taken care of, that's good enough for them.

As for the security in place that let Snowden smuggle things out, it's true that they clamped down after Manning but again, the IT crowd has their own special set of rules.

I still say Snowden is a boy-toy for a powerful male homosexual currently out of the government - and desperate to get back in, by pulling some over-the-top stunt like sending boy-toy to Moscow with supposed reams of stolen NSA Intel.

I researched this last year, and found that Snowden bounced from choice-assignment to choice-assignment in the Intel Community (both federal and private contractor), and was making over $100,000 a year, when seasoned Agents/Contractors mostly make far under that. (Scroll down to the second article below the linked article below.)

Even Cryptome.org is now saying "PDF properties of Snowden docs show none are originals of spies.
Likely sanitized-redacted by Snowden/outlets, originals need open scrutiny."

cryptome.org...
SNOWDEN DEVELOPED NSA DATA BACKUP SYSTEM CALLED "EPICSHELTER"

And if his older-male "handler" was looking to boost his role in government, he may have really triggered a scrutiny he didn't anticipate:

cryptome.org...
DOD INVESTIGATES "BOOZ ALLEN" CONTRACT FAULTS

cryptome.org...
SNOWDEN'S TOR EXIT NODE IS "TheSignal Hop"?

cryptome.org...
NAME OF MAN FROM 'THE GUARDIAN' WHO DESTROYED SNOWDEN'S DISCS

cryptome.org...
(May 2010) DOD-IG REPORT: PERVASIVE LABOR MIS-CHARGING BY CONTRACT EMPLOYEES OF N.S.A.

He's what Snowden was doing before/around this time:

en.wikipedia.org...
EDWARD SNOWDEN
Joined the CIA in 2006. In 2007, he got cushy temp assignment (and 4-bedroom house) in Geneva, Switzerland. Quit CIA in 2009, went to work for Dell as an NSA contractor near Tokyo. In March 2012, Dell assigns Snowden to that well-known hard-ship post - Hawaii. He began downloading secret NSA docs in April 2012, about a month after he arrived.

streetwiseprofessor.com...
A HACKER CONVERGENCE TO HAWAII IN MARCH 2013
Snowden quits Dell on March 13, 2013. He develops a PCP public key (using his BAH email address) on March 24, 2013, then takes a pay-cut to work for Booz-Allen (also in Hawaii). He defected to Hong Kong in May 2013.

originally posted by: projectbane
Pretty much a failure at everything. Ok he got his GED (not exactly a smart cookie, dont let the glasses and preppy boy look fool you! Paper wise this guy is a moron)

Aaaaaaand there it is. The stupidest thing I've read in weeks.

The fact that you included "Don't let the glasses and preppy boy look fool you!" tells me that you already hold a (poorly) predefined set of qualities associated with 'intelligence', of which I can assure you that manner of dress and official qualifications (paper wise [sic]) hold no bearing on an individuals intelligence.

As for the GED/no degree in IT so why did he get the job argument, I have a family member who works as an engineer for a very big company in the automotive industry (for the last 20 years). He is 100% self taught, no actual certifications, no paper to 'prove' that he knows what he's talking about, yet they trust him with 10's of millions of dollars to design and build new robotics, then create the programs to control the machines, then create the training material and personally train technicians to monitor/fix the equipment.

Not bad for someone you would term 'unqualified' due to his lack of paper qualifications.

a reply to: projectbane

I am reviving this thread from 2014, with new and relevant information:


cryptome.org...
EDWARD JOSEPH SNOWDEN BEING SUED IN KANSAS

a reply to: projectbane

But you will realise that Ethical Hacking courses/degrees were only created a couple of years ago when the need was finally realised and so most counter hackers are self taught and most still are. He hasn't failed at whistle-blowing anyway, that much is clear and all I actually care about. His CV is really not my concern and shouldn't be yours. He worked for the NSA, they saw him skilled enough to give him a post there. Why do we need to prove that he isn't skilled at his job when his employers have deemed him to be skilled enough? Is this just a blatant smearing of Snowden? I don't know what point you are trying to make. Does this discredit him in anyway? No. Do the NSA and GCHQ take on highly intelligent, self taught hackers to counter hack their systems and who may have never completed a college course in their life? Yes. Do they also take on staff who have high functioning autism with high IQs who may also not look 'good on paper' but can program and hack better than the pros. You do realise this industry isn't like any other and that many are hired after they prove how well they can hack, not how many qualifications they have on a piece of paper?

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
A useful idiot is all he is

His history reads like a wannabe spy /special forces flop/weirdo without any credible evidence to back up or warrant his job position or posting.. He does not have the background or history to prove he is anyone other than a wannabe, and of course a bit of an attention seeker,

However he is a very useful idiot for Russia China et el even of he was a receptionist he is still useful for propaganda purposes if he's willing to sell out his own country for fame and fortune

I don't understand how people can say you can self teach the qualifications needed for these jobs positions, and you do t need certificates and qualifications proof, if that's the case then I guess we can all fly helicopters and get the jobs we want

The Snowdon story has always stunk of Intelligence leak & anti west propaganda campaign under the guise of whistle blower

If you were a hacker you would understand clearly how they all self teach.

Anti -western propaganda ????? I am at a loss for words.
READ his leaks. Then WORRY about what your government is actually doing to you. Then weep for the liberties that you no longer have.

Or believe the mainstream brainwash and keep calling him an 'attention seeker'.

Your choice.

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: projectbane
I think a few on here are missing the point. By a long way.

Yes many people with NO qualifications have exceeded all expectation and formed companies in the fortune 500.
These people did this from the ground up and excelled.

HOWEVER, when applying to join an agency like the cia OR nsa or even a top consulting firm your first impression is your resume. He has nothing on his. NOTHING. he wouldn't get in the door!! Let alone get the job.

Booz Allen HAmilton firm even questioned his "misrepresented" CV. He had nothing of note and no apt qualifications to present.

He should not of even been selected for interview!! It would not happen!! That is my threads point!!

If anyone has ever tried to get a prestigious job, competition is immense and so is screening before interview.

To me it doesnt add up!!!

Yes all true and why I have always suspected Snowden is a fictional character, brought to you by your favorite letter agency. Think about it. He has no HS diploma and no college degree, so no way to look into his past. Most people he encountered, probably forgot they ever met him if his stints in school were short-lived.

My belief has always been, his roll was to implant within the global consciousness, that Big Brother sees and hears everything. This accomplishes multiple objectives. It draws out people. It causes them to make posts on the internet which reveal theirs their thinking, their politics and any future motivations they may have. For those that are considered a threat to TPTB, it causes them to change their patterns of exchange, pushing them to more remote parts of the net, corralled in a sense, where they can be more easily managed. It also sends a message to various governments across the globe that they too are being watched.

My friend, please trust me. They can already see and hear everything you are doing. They have been for a long time. I really can't be bothered explaining it all here in a post but just trust that I'm currently studying ethical hacking and the things I'm being taught are enough to make you wear a silver hat for life, cut your internet off and unplug from anything with a battery cell.
But hey, ignorance is bliss as they say. Some people even prefer it when faced with the truth.