Obsession with arguments for and against faith or science

reply to post by AnnieWolf19


I'm confused as to the intent of this thread, are you trying to look for a possible husband, debate atheism vs theism, debate evolution vs creationism, or what? What do you want to get out of this thread?

I'd also like to know what lead you to reject science's claims. Is this because you interpret the bible literally? If that is the case, I'm sorry to say but you are a vastly shrinking minority since that line of thinking has been all but proven to be incorrect, but if you want to find more people with that thinking, you should move to the American south to the American mid-west. It's pretty much the only place left on earth where thinking like that remains (much to the rest of America's chagrin...)

For those who want to think about it. This thread can be seen as am example of the OP praying for something and god thru man giving several messages (one post not mine was exactly what she asked for from my point of view) that she can choose to receive and act on to get exactly what she have asked for.

a reply to: oneoneone

Thank You oneoneone for your proposal and your care. No, I'm not going to hurry with having a husband. Maybe that would be good for me to finally feel security and stability next to somebody, but it's better not to hurry. My life is complicated, so maybe it will be better to wait till my 30th or 40th birthday.
Anyway, for me comforting information is that throughout the history many men and women died and they had no opportunity to be with anybody and have any children. It will find out in the future if I am in a such group or not.

To be honest I met people, who are trying to explain me this Oneness with the Universe for about 2 years, but I can't get it because it's hard to get involved with something of what roots you know as New Age (actuallyold-new age, but renew ideas of hippies from 60's).

You can read about my dilemma about things you wrote in my post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I just shared my doubts, my lifestory to see what people will write from their own experiences after reading my thread.

I know that in some coutries some subjects are much more known than in others, so it's good to hear different opinions.

Probably to the end of my life, whatever I will choose to be true, there will always be some dilemmas and doubts in my mind "did I actually make a good decision about my life".

On one hand I don't want to be a believer, who is afraid of science, but on the other hand I don't want to make a bad decision about my Christian faith. I could became an Evolutionist Christian, but I do not know if that has any sense.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Can U explain what "OP Praying" means?

a reply to: AnnieWolf19

You are obviously not 'afraid of science'. You are using a computer that is using the internet, perhaps you take showers with hot water? Perhaps you flush your toilet and you use the sewer system? Maybe you have electricity in your home? Maybe you get your food from the supermarket?

My advice would be...make things as simple as they can be. You can build and build worries and thoughts and complications literally endlessly, or at least your entire life, more worrying and stress and thinking and worrying and wondering. My advice would be to make things simple. You have to eat, you have to drink, you need clothes, you need shelter, you need to sleep. This is life. How can you do these things while being a good person to yourself and others. If there is a God, that is all 'it' can ask of you. Take a deep breathe, take some nice stretches, relax, open your eyes, deep breathe, you have been living, you are doing fine, keep up the good work. You can worry if you want, infinitely...or you can simplify your life, your understanding of 'the problems you create by creating them', and just live peacefully, be good, and do what you have to do to continue a comfortable existence. I wish you the best. Chill out yo.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

I take the Genesis account as literal narrative history, because I believe that every word of the Bible is perfect, true, and inspired, but you are certainly entitled to your own opinion on the matter.

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

I take the Genesis account as literal narrative history, because I believe that every word of the Bible is perfect, true, and inspired, but you are certainly entitled to your own opinion on the matter.

Im sure if you asked a baby what 64367+4363634 equals it would answer with a burp and confident smile.

originally posted by: AnnieWolf19
a reply to: oneoneone
To be honest I met people, who are trying to explain me this Oneness with the Universe for about 2 years, but I can't get it because it's hard to get involved with something of what roots you know as New Age (actuallyold-new age, but renew ideas of hippies from 60's).

You could say new age combines religions, science and ancient research, or anything by comparing some of them, however not directly with all flaws removed and all immediately combined. There are sources with pure disinformation, sources from people mixing disinformation from non new age thoughts and new age thoughts with their own, creating again new versions.

While you progress your wisdom step by step in life, the brain mechanism of how to use and express information, it will improve and you will find reasons for why to care for larger groups rather than just yourself or your family.
Most don't ever reach that far to understand what oneness means or why to care for all, because they have to work for too long or get distracted all the time, not having time to think, perhaps only one in a million being aware enough to combine all of natures mechanics today.

The new age definition of oneness has many meanings of course. Putting things into groups is often used to control people. Left vs right, religion vs atheists, rich vs poor (super rich excluded), hippies vs the rest of the world. I know about new age, however consider myself part of all and non at once, simply to not let myself be divided for less efficiency: all religions, science, new age.

I cannot say for sure that we would literally be one, however actions pass on from being to being and come back to us in whichever way could be true. Simply ceasing to exist is very unlikely or impossible after all my research done. Many religious people sadly take things too literally again and think after life they would be completely separated in a magical world, not having to worry about what they did to others. Then we partially separate into good and evil, listening to others instead of knowing the effect that circulates back to us. Also the amount of % of a chance of anything to be true and what alternative possibilities have in common are of relevance, even if you cannot know if they are true. I have many conclusions, rather only from myself, however the word oneness includes many possible meanings, which all seem reasonable to express.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
vethumanbeing
OptimusSubprime
reply to post by AnnieWolf19

OptimusSubprime Why does it have to be faith OR science? What can't we have faith AND science. Having said that, there is an important distinction to be made between real science, where the scientific method can be applied, such as Astronomy and physics... and fake pseudo-science like evolution and man made global warming, where the scientific method can not be applied 99% of the time, and therefore requires just as much faith to believe in as religion.

VHB As you say, why is Creationism, Darwinism so polarized (polar-dizzmesmerised) "the Who being us, versus Those being them". The two actually work together and no one gets it. The practical earth sciences will never understand the metaphysical those forces are based in thought intent. Faith in something can be easily corrupted by others thought forms, how does one that beleives in the Bible know it to be true? They dont by weights and measures, but hard Science misses the added element of Magick call it god or human freewill intent just as faith driven belief systems are missing the "ill logic" in their stance; faith born only with no real measureable proof.

littlebylittle I agree and say that science do not want any proof. So many people who are materialists cannot even handle what they with science have observed. Spooky Quantum entanglement for instance.
If they really wanted to prove the healing quality of faith (intention->manifestation) tools then they would have already done it. Now days it is just greed of money that makes people not have spiritual healing as a complement to giving substance that the body lack to heal itself to the best of the bodies potential. Many scientist really hate the placebo effect since it is against their faith in materialism. Faith driven people going after the healing witches again. History repeats itself with different actors/views.

They the material sciences are not looking at how the universe works regarding balancing itself (it always does even if involving one little material 3d planet (they cant measure it so it ceases to exist). Pagans/Aboriginals, native american shamans, 'witches' understand how to manipulate forces unseen, for hard science not being measurable puts all activity of the metaphysical in a "WOO WOO" catagory fashion not to be taken at all seriously. Where is the imagination here? NOWHERE.

originally posted by: AnnieWolf19
a reply to: LittleByLittle

Can U explain what "OP Praying" means?

That mean you praying. Op stands for opening post/poster. So if you write a thread people will call either the first post or the poster OP depending on what they want. Sorry about the confusion I should have written your name fully instead but I have gotten into the habit of using OP.

a reply to: oneoneone

On the subject on oneness/non-duality.



Namaste on all levels soul brother.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Thank U for your explanation. Everywhere people have their own abbreviations

a reply to: oneoneone

Thank U for your opinion. You are right that people in the world need everything to be categorized to make it simple to write about people's belief, talk about it.

Instead of using long sentences, describing what is person's view on this world and what one man practices it's easier to see that he or she is New Ager (believes in oneness with the Universe, meditate, maybe experienced Kundalini awakening and thinks that everybody are gods). And it's for any other belief.

As I read definition of New Age is so wide that it's hard to actually explain what it contatins. But mostly it contains pantheistic views on this world, with Eastern mysticism, yoga, meditation. People who practices those things don not have to know about New Age, but experts from categorization will place them in place called "New Age", "New Thought", "Universalism" and so one.

If one group of people would say "we only believe in power of meditation and we they meditate all day and night to reduce violence on this planet", experts would call them "Meditators" or in a different way.

a reply to: AnnieWolf19

Of course it makes sense. It means that the stories in Genesis are just the cliff notes of the whole account and the time frames and events are summarized. God would use things like the big bang when he says "let there be light" to create the universe. He'd use evolution to develop life throughout the universe. There are many Christians around the world who believe that this is the case. I'm really not sure why some are so opposed to that idea. Science doesn't necessarily say it has to exist without religion, but religion seems to think that it can just plug its ears and pretend science doesn't exist. There are many things that science cannot show currently (like the non-existence of a god), so it is feasible to have this belief (understand it is still irrational since there is no proof of a god either) while understanding that science is also true.

This may mean you have to update your understanding of religious accounts, but that isn't so hard when you understand that we are talking about a book that was written thousands of years ago by people who had a fraction of the understanding of the universe that we have today. It isn't surprising that they'd attribute natural disasters to God's actions or develop cult of personalities around a figure that elevate them into godhood (or demi-godhood) over the years and centuries. Though accepting science also requires you to accept that we still only know a tiny, small fraction of the total knowledge of the universe, so if we cannot currently explain something it doesn't meant that science is failing, we just haven't gotten advanced enough to answer that question. I don't know or we don't know are valid and ok answers for many of the universe's great questions.

a reply to: AnnieWolf19

If one group of people would say "we only believe in power of meditation and we they meditate all day and night to reduce violence on this planet", experts would call them "Meditators" or in a different way.

Meditation is only one of the tools in the tool box that you can use but from my point of view more for measuring yourself than effecting anything.

Some use chi/light to intent->manifest peace but I would call that a spiritual manipulation (manipulation can be egoistic/neutral/symbiotic in nature) of the whole not just observing the whole. Sometimes I think this is a waste of time just holding back karma that need to be resolved and delaying a problem but it might be need to give humanity more time. Saturating this place in chi/light I can understand so spiritual growth becomes easier (because that is what the en-light-ened ones collectively are doing is it not?).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

It isn't surprising that they'd attribute natural disasters to God's actions or develop cult of personalities around a figure that elevate them into godhood (or demi-godhood) over the years and centuries.

In a way a natural disaster is a lack of action of god. God can intervene thru man/nature but are from my point of view teaching a lesson that humans collectively should become self reliant and learn the lesson of cause and effect (what you seed you reap) evolving humanity one step at a time.

Idolizing is boring and people should form my point of view do the message instead of just believing it, but still doing the opposite.

O believe me when I say this, you know nothing of a messed up mind. Problem is, is that your trying to mix to very different...how should we say...Theologies/Practices. That really...AND..I mean really... Really Don't mix. It like Holy magic thats right everytime and mysterious black magic, that will blast to another dimension if mix the wrong ingredients.

Considering it medieval Europe over thr still, most Catholics probably lack the attention span to look at ether the bible, or science textbook of whatever, and are just into that he/she said gossip.

In my crazy co-co mind, I think the four beast are countries/industries or currencies trying to gain the inches of turf across the world. While the four horsemen are actually space ship models.

Now ain't that crazy?

I'd want nature to cause another flood and earth quakes here more quickly, but the darkest have already built underground cities. It's been around 9000 years of slavery and all the time people have thought in their time it would be the chance to crush the system while it only got harder to.
Wake up quickly, spread, get together with those who are aware.
Don't run from harming positions, but infiltrate and act without fear for yourself.
So that we could reduce the working time once again to 3 minutes a day or with new technology only use robots to do the work.
Perhaps one alone has more ways to revert the system than half of us being aware, so do not underestimate yourself and think until we are free, if you are gifted with the time most of us don't have.
Technology is a key, but should not be approached before understanding why to care for all that is and how we affect the invisible.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Is this because you interpret the bible literally? If that is the case, I'm sorry to say but you are a vastly shrinking minority since that line of thinking has been all but proven to be incorrect, but if you want to find more people with that thinking, you should move to the American south to the American mid-west. It's pretty much the only place left on earth where thinking like that remains

Living here in St. Louis, in the midwest, I have to say that is a stereotype that just is not accurate.

Broad strokes. Remember, you told me choice of words is very important.

It's like saying the only place one will find a Mormon in the country is in Salt Lake City.

The OP could find someone close to what she is seeking anywhere in the world.

She also needs to let herself realize she is only 20 and thinking can change vastly as one ages, lives life, and experiences.

******
a reply to: AnnieWolf19

And what's more people from my family and from studies focus mostly on relationships, making love and giving birth to children and ask me, why I'm not the same?

But how can I be in a relationship with somebody if in my brain is such a mess? I guess the best husband for me would be a guy, who went through different belief systems, was an evolutionist, had a crisis of faith, but in miraculous way he was touched by the Holy Spirit, who showed him a true meaning of God's Word and God gave him a gift in speaking in tongues.
But how can I find one and if I would find, would I actually like such guy?

OP, you don't need to feel like there is any hurry to find "that someone".

My thinking/ideas of faith and science have changed many times since I was 20 (sometimes greatly) and I am sure they will be tweaked in my future as well.

In time you may have a completely different outlook.