Swiss Plan to Pay Basic Income – Regardless of Job

reply to post by zazen


Whats your answer to social progress thats going to be necessary as we evolve technologically?

from my understanding of this, every citizen gets the 2000$/Month, regardless if he/she works or not.
So, if you choose not to work, you get the 2000$, but if you work, you still get paid the 2000$ + the money you earn from employment.

This system isn't "You get 2000$/M from the Governmet or your payment from work", it is a true minimum income... And I like the general idea of this.

reply to post by Talliostro


What impact do you think this will have on crime?

Maybe there will be a little more happiness in the Swiss country. Sure beats the taxed to death American society. How are they going to pay for it? Lol we are talking about the Swiss I'm sure they've thought about it.

i don't know about switzerland but i couldn't live on $2k a month in HK.

that would be sweet if it was supplemental to my pay, tho.

$2000 mo. no social services? never will happen in the usa.

reply to post by onequestion


I have no clue, honestly.
My best guess is, that moneymotivated lesser crimes (like small robberies, pickpocketing) will subsede while personalmotivated crime will rise. From my view in Germany, crime here is far different than what's going on beyond the pond in the 'mericas, so no clue really.

reply to post by onequestion


This Swiss initiative is a glorious one….

Did you also know that people in Schwitzerland can demand an election regarding any passed law if they can amass 20.000 signatures? Now that's true democracy for you.

Also, they have a law preventing company owners earning more than a specific ratio between boss and worker. I think it's 12:1.
In other words, it generates real growth rahter than money bins.

The majority of people in the west, America as well as most European coutries are infested with the ill belief that it's good to have "more" than everyone else…. it's SICK.

Real happniness comes from living in a society where you feel that it safe for everyone to live. Both in terms of social security and healthcare but also workwise.

An initiative like this will keep the moral of those who are unfortunte for a brief periode in their life as in losing their job, becoming seriously ill and so on. It will carry them through their hardship and give them the incentive to return to contribute to society again once they are ready.

This is a quote from Sustainable Man on Facebook:

An anthropologist proposed a game to children in an African tribe. He put a basket full of fruit near a tree and told them that whoever got there first would win the fruits. When he told them to run they all took each other's hands and ran together, then sat together, sharing and enjoying the fruit. When he asked them why they had run like that as one could have had all the fruits for one's self they said: "UBUNTU, how can one of us be happy if all the other ones are sad?"

How beautiful is that!?

If there is one thing this world does NOT need, it's greedy people who can't see the benefit of helping the guy next to you when he needs it. I honestly believe we need to destroy every single investment bank in the world, and get rid of the people who created them.
Sometimes the only way to put things right is for the common man to change the world by the edge of a sword.

reply to post by flice


Post of the week.

onequestion
reply to post by Talliostro

 

What impact do you think this will have on crime?

If you could get it to work. It would lower the crime rate by helping the criminals of desperation. But it would not eliminate crime in total. There will always be those willing to take that which they feel they deserve from those that earned it and paid for it. It also does nothing to address those that are looking for the relatively easy money of sex trafficking and drug trades.

reply to post by onequestion


$2000 a month for doing nothing! That is brilliant! If there is one way to push a fully developed economy towards increased progress then that is it! This will contribute to the culture, innovation and job and labor market! Everyone will be happier! Horray! I love this plan, way to go Switzerland, I hope it works out.

KeliOnyx

ownbestenemy
reply to post by onequestion

 

Where are they going to get the revenue from to continue the payout of this amount when more people choose to not work then? That would be my first question and I find it interesting that this is the second thread on this notion that just popped up on ATS....

More people may initially choose to not work, I won't waste time arguing that point. As this isn't a means tested welfare program that disincentives work but is instead a flat endowment there will always be those people that will want better that won't take a penalty for doing better. That isn't to say I don't foresee problems with it. The first problem I see is housing and rent costs spiking quickly because people have a guaranteed 2k a month to spend. Followed shortly by every other business raising prices and dropping wages at the same time because people have more to spend and lowering wages for cost saving because that is 2k a month per employee that they really could get away without paying.

That's a lot of BS because wages would get more competitive and part-time employment in services would rise. Consumption of consumer goods would only go up to a point so prices would likely not rise much and business would expand to meet increasing supply. The real estate market for low-medium income would likely flourish as well. Their domestic economy may likely streamline from this which seems kind of counter-intuitive.

reply to post by opethPA


people aren't generally lazy only because people can't get by being lazy as the world is but in an environment where work doesn't create any gain or fulfill any need or where there is no real benefit to working and everything is taken care of, it's then that humans become lazy, empty and selfish. such a child like society will destroy itself and will lose themselves, they will not be able to endure through a difficult time or recover from large disasters. that kind of humanity will go extinct without a struggle.

humans who struggle know the truth of reality and live it, if they lived in a paradise without difficulty then passion and creativity would wither and die, there would be no great artists, musicians, inventors, etc, the world would've been boring and dull.

at the rate things are going machines will do everything because the inherent human desire to make life easier for themselves, sure it worked for awhile to help us survive many things up till now but we are at the point where it's becoming too easy and we will begin to bore ourselves and become empty. without proper stimulation humans become broken and depressed, they stop functioning properly and live short empty lives without any fulfillment.

chaos is life and struggle is the best thing to create chaos, without it life would be pointless and would end without ever trying.

reply to post by namehere


That's not what's happening here though. You still are rewarded for working and producing. Not enough is provided to attain anything beyond basic survival. All that is being eliminated is total destitution. Even then 100% of basics won't be automatic because some will find ways of misusing that basic amount in some way. They could lose it down the sewer pipe, or gamble it and lose it or whatever. But aside from mismanaged usage of it, it would provide enough to simply get by.

Let's say you got enough to eat rice & veggie bowls, water and a basic shelter. You could then simply survive that way if you choose doing nothing else. You wouldn't be homeless or starve to death, but that is about it. Most people would to various degrees choose to do more.

reply to post by onequestion


For sometime now i have been wondering why the political parties in the uk haven't put this idea forward as possibility. we have so many people claiming large amounts of means tested benefits its unreal. If every adult was given say 12k per year and told that is it, live on it there is no more, we wouldn't loose billions each year through fraud. Many mothers could afford to stay at home with their children, Many could afford to work part time, freeing up jobs for those who need to work. Those who see benefits as a life style choice would be forced to think differently, or move to a part of the country where work is harder to come by, as those places are cheaper to live in. I don't know how many people over 18/21 that we have in the uk, but surely this would not be much more expensive than paying our large benefits bill and the staff needed to oversee the means testing, fraud investigation etc.

In fact i wonder if there would be a way to abolish all taxes, (tax evasion must cost huge amounts of money) and then find a new tax solution, possibly based on the size of your property, anything over a 5 bed house? Or put up the rate of vat on luxury items, encouraging people to save rather then spend.

I suspect that most countries have a complicated tax system, which must cost billions to administer, systems like this are open to fraud, loop holes etc.

This would encourage people to only have children they can afford to support, those who would be put in real poverty by these measures could be helped in other ways, until the children they have already given birth too have reached the age of 18.

I am of course only talking about personal taxes here. There would need to be some arrangements made for businesses to contribute.

If illegal substances were legalized and taxed along with alcohol and tobacco plus fuel, the money raised would pay for things like the nhs.

I doubt any uk party would have the balls to suggest such a thing though. It would also take some strain off our justice system,

reply to post by onequestion


I guess my answer would be "spiritual progress", which may only come about after the human race has endured a great amount of suffering under its current paradigm. Like an alcoholic, humanity may have to hit rock bottom before it decides to change its course.

Well, if this comes to pass, I'll apply for work in Switzerland.
I have a strong work and education ethic that is currently being trampled on in the UK.

flice
Also, they have a law preventing company owners earning more than a specific ratio between boss and worker. I think it's 12:1.
In other words, it generates real growth rather than money bins.

I believe that that referendum failed to pass.

Swiss Voters Reject...

peck420

flice
Also, they have a law preventing company owners earning more than a specific ratio between boss and worker. I think it's 12:1.
In other words, it generates real growth rather than money bins.

I believe that that referendum failed to pass.

Swiss Voters Reject...

Quite sad, I think it's a great idea.
All extra income past 12:1 should be reinvested right back in the company instead of taken for profit and if CEO's really want more money, well, paying their lowest employe 1$ more an hour gives them 12$ more an hour. Sounds good enough, only the greedy would object to this.

flice
reply to post by onequestion

 

This Swiss initiative is a glorious one….

Did you also know that people in Schwitzerland can demand an election regarding any passed law if they can amass 20.000 signatures? Now that's true democracy for you.

Also, they have a law preventing company owners earning more than a specific ratio between boss and worker. I think it's 12:1.
In other words, it generates real growth rahter than money bins.

The majority of people in the west, America as well as most European coutries are infested with the ill belief that it's good to have "more" than everyone else…. it's SICK.

Real happniness comes from living in a society where you feel that it safe for everyone to live. Both in terms of social security and healthcare but also workwise.

An initiative like this will keep the moral of those who are unfortunte for a brief periode in their life as in losing their job, becoming seriously ill and so on. It will carry them through their hardship and give them the incentive to return to contribute to society again once they are ready.

This is a quote from Sustainable Man on Facebook:

An anthropologist proposed a game to children in an African tribe. He put a basket full of fruit near a tree and told them that whoever got there first would win the fruits. When he told them to run they all took each other's hands and ran together, then sat together, sharing and enjoying the fruit. When he asked them why they had run like that as one could have had all the fruits for one's self they said: "UBUNTU, how can one of us be happy if all the other ones are sad?"

How beautiful is that!?

If there is one thing this world does NOT need, it's greedy people who can't see the benefit of helping the guy next to you when he needs it. I honestly believe we need to destroy every single investment bank in the world, and get rid of the people who created them.
Sometimes the only way to put things right is for the common man to change the world by the edge of a sword.

Excelent post

GreenMtnBoys
How are they going to pay for it? Lol we are talking about the Swiss I'm sure they've thought about it.

Probably the same way we pay for it in America. Keep hitting the print key .