US Is an Oligarchy Not a Democracy, says Scientific Study

schuyler
"Democracy" is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.

I would prefer a true "meritocracy" over "oligarchy," but given the choice I'll take either of those two over "democracy" any day.

edit on 4/14/2014 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

Exactly, you are the first honest conservative I have ever met.

The worst thing is to let citizens have a vote and impact policy!!!

Experts confirm what you've always known.

What are you gonna do about it?

schuyler
"Democracy" is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.

Democracy is fine as long as the majority think the way you do, but once you are in the minority--on ANYTHING--you are in trouble. Relying on the majority to be tolerant towards you means your fate is not in your own hands. Relying on human beings to be tolerant of anything has historically not gone well for those in the minority. Just think: In a "democracy' half the people have an IQ of 100 or less. Because we are under the illusion that "everyone is equal," it's those people who will decide your fate. That phrase once meant that "everyone was of equal worth before God." (yeah, yeah. Religion and all that. Blah, blah.) But NOW it means everyone is of equal intelligence and not just "equal opportunity," but "equal achievement." So if you don't manage to "achieve," it MUST be someone else's fault. It couldn't possibly because you are stupid, lazy, or lack character.

I would prefer a true "meritocracy" over "oligarchy," but given the choice I'll take either of those two over "democracy" any day.

edit on 4/14/2014 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

A constitutional democracy can protect the lamb from being eaten! Its true that a direct democracy could quickly turn into bad thing, but that's what a bill of rights is for. Don't confuse yourself a representative democracy is no better! We need to clear the slate to help effect a more perfect union!

I think if we put our heads together we could come up with a bill of rights that would protected all minorities and address all of todays concerns. If we could just get the special interest and monies out of existing system it would be a vast improvement. Of, course the day Congress reforms itself would be a cold day in hell!

My thinking is that Congress has failed miserably, and so should be abolished with a direct vote from the masses to replace it. A clear separation of powers should also be in place. There should be no higher authority except for constitutional law etc.. The days of imperial presidencies should come to an abrupt end.

We will never have a perfect system of government, but we can do a whole hell of a lot better than the corrupt self serving system we have today!

From what I have been hearing Russia is passing around the word War!. "The Ukrainian crisis was merely the final straw on the back of an overloaded camel. " in particular. Its just not on the news yet, and already we have seen a Russian plane almost force a US ship to fire upon it.

It is horrible to say but a brutal war with Russia et al could stir the public to action. Will Ostank tuck tail? I doubt it, and so war is a real possibility at the moment. Don't confuse yourself we have never been closer, except maybe during the Cuban missile crisis.

Words Build Bridges into unexplored regions, so get to talking. There is nothing more American than the notion of a government fully accountable to the people and the freedom it would infer. There is nothing un patriotic about questioning a system which employees secret police forces to monitor our every move and listen to our ever word etc..

rickymouse
I think everyone on ATS knows that it is like that already. They may not have known the name of it though.

edit on 14-4-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

I thought most on ATS kew this as well. After all, with us setting the bar of 'spiracy sites, this should be common knowledge here. Star, sir.

schuyler

I would prefer a true "meritocracy" over "oligarchy," but given the choice I'll take either of those two over "democracy" any day.

edit on 4/14/2014 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

But the current version is not a true meritocracy at all unless your share the view that money not only equals speak but 'merit' as well.

What we are seeing is the effects of 'inherited wealth' that ruled in Europe at the founding of the USA. The framers of the consitiution were very aware of the danger of 'inherited wealth'. That was the purpose of Inheritance taxes, to keep inheritances modest so that one couldn't 'skate' on inherited wealth. The founders believed in meritocracy but what we have now in in no way an example of one.

reply to post by qwerty12345

qwerty12345
It's supposed to be a Republic not a democracy to begin with.

This distinction doesn't really matter in this context though.
The roman oligarchy wasn't democratic, but republican.

A Republic isn't more resistant to the forming of an oligarchy.

If only someone warned us... someone like Plato, effing ~2300 years (!!!) ago.

reply to post by olaru12

olaru12
I'm not so sure. In the political threads and mudpit; partisanship divided along party lines still seems to be the operating principal.

I see ATS as becoming increasingly theocratic, conservative and ultra right with most members still adhering to the status quo and pointing fingers at the opposite party instead of the real power in America the facist Corporate Oligarchy military industrial complex neocon scum.

Funny way to say it, but still a correct assessment.

Just make sure to include all sides of the political spectrum (and not only in the US, but pretty much everywhere throughout our so-called first world/western society).

You folks really should watch The2ofusr1's video he linked. You are mostly just banging your shields.

To The2ofusr1... Thank you for the link. It is enlightening. And thank you for the research and post! Have you ever been on Alternative radio??

It seems that Nazi/Nicheism went underground, reinvented itself, and started WWIII... And the world is losing. Again, though, how does a society defend itself against a band of organized sociopaths who constantly attacks with continually escalating schemes? What is the sol'n(s)?

What I don't understand is why everyday citizens support these policies and people that concentrate power and wealth in the hands of the very few and destroy the lives and livelihoods of millions of people.

To me it is very obvious.
The cultural values are the root of the nation, from them stem the direction and form of it's evolution.
Our nation was started upon the idea that the Individual has more value than the Majority.
We all support and rally to that cry. We all abhor the idea of being part of "the herd"; the majority.
Our individual ego is fed well and fat with the message that it is not dominated by the choices of the majority, and we embrace that.


It is inevitable, in my mind for a nation with such values to NOT end up feeling opposed to their government (which is of the people, for the people.... yet "the people" is the majority, the damned herd we all hate ), and feeding it to the corporate individuals instead.

You are free, as an individual, to duel with any other individual, in the competition for survival. (yahoo!) But you as a blood and bone entity have no chance against a giant corporate entity.

Kudos ATS this is one of the best threads I have read this year.

MOMof3
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

True. But it was the children of the less fortunate, indentured servitude, who settled the wilderness, that made the militias that won the Revolution.

Technically, that's still not entirely true. My family moved up into the Hudson River area soon after it was explored as settlers to New York near Brooklyn. If you also read the link to Shays' Rebellion, you'll see that the veterans of the Revolutionary War mostly went unpaid for their service--something which had been promised to them. That's part of what made Shays' Rebellion so dangerous--seasoned veterans. So, the militias that formed up to win the revolution got shafted afterwards by the Congress of the Confederation.

Some things never seem to change when you think about it. There is an other side of history which they did not teach us in the schools. It's a bit sobering really.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Correct. Inherited wealth, they believed would lend itself to class stagnation or even feudalism. One of the other things that we undid was get rid of short term corporate charters. Previously, corporations could only function with a set purpose, goal and a limited duration until its mission/goald were complete. Forming a corporation also required legislation. That changed in the late 19th to 20th centuries when states decided to free up the corporate charter process. The distinction between the two things were that a corporation is dealt with in an entirely different manner than would be seen in a partnership or sole proprietorship in the event of a death--even of a major stockholder. For both a partnership or sole proprietorship, estate taxes might hit (less so these days with changes to partnership laws) or even result in the dissolution (natural death) of the business. For corporations, death of an individual becomes meaningless and they are immortal (barring bankruptcy).

That opening up of the corporate model was definitely a factor in the accumulation and stagnation that we're seeing.

Oligarchy ?

But surely *everyone* knows that the US is being led to destruction by the international communist conspiracy...

/sarcasm

Anyhows... History repeats. Democracy will never be a viable, functional system as long as money is the lifeblood of our society. That's a basic mathematical equation. The mathematical principle of monetary mechanics leads to accumulation, and since money is power, this natural accumulation of wealth also leads to a natural accumulation of power. No law will ever change this simple mechanic, because laws are made and undone by the powerful. And that, my friends, is why we will never be free. Because we have managed to create a culture which represents that which enslaves us as the embodiement of $$$ freedom $$$.

Of course democracy is dead. Some say it died in 1913 (creation of the federal reserve) some say it died in 1954 (creation of the bilderberg group [an oligarchy run by plutocrats and technocrats]) while others say it died long before those. It should be obvious to anyone who pays attention by now.

Just like so many other scientific studies out there...just stating the obvious and what everybody else already knows.

Interesting study , it only confirms what we all know that the US is a fascist/corporate controlled country hiding behind the guise of democracy and justice for all.
The fact that the Uk is a mirror image of this is shocking

so much for stomping out fascism in the 2nd world war

I would venture most people here on ATS already know this is the case but the general public does not. They suspect something is wrong but still feel they have a voice, especially when it comes to voting.

I have friends who want Hillary to be the next president (shudder!) simply because they LIKE her. They have no idea what's really going on.

Great thread! Star for you!

spurgeonatorsrevenge

schuyler
"Democracy" is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner.

I would prefer a true "meritocracy" over "oligarchy," but given the choice I'll take either of those two over "democracy" any day.

edit on 4/14/2014 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

Exactly, you are the first honest conservative I have ever met.

The worst thing is to let citizens have a vote and impact policy!!!

The oligarch want a disjointed and unconnected and powerless population to rule over while they themselves collude, congregate and conspire to enrich they and their cronies.

the2ofusr1

The US media consistently lies for the government. Reuters continues to report, falsely, that Russia invaded and annexed Crimea. The Washington Post ran an obviously false story planted on the paper by the Obama regime that the massive protests in former Russian territories of Ukraine are “rent-a-mobs” instigated by the Russian government.

This thread is supposed to be about US democracy not a veiled attempt to promote propoganda about Crimea. Why on earth don't you pro putin folks READ....you know sites on the internet that are not linked to the US or even the west. How about China News Daily. even that site, pro chinese NOT pro west states that Russia has annexed Crimea. Your propoganda makes you worse than that peddled by SOME of the media for the simple fact that being on this site you know you should do some research. Just because a media outlet reports something that you disagree with does not mean it is lying it could be your beliefs that are wrong.....shock horror OMG !

reply to post by yorkshirelad


I know what the thread is about and I gave a link to a western author writing in a independent news media because the MSM wont publish his stuff . " Paul Craig Roberts (born April 3, 1939) is an American economist and a columnist for Creators Syndicate. He served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration and was noted as a co-founder ofReaganomics.[1] He is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service. He has testified before congressional committees on 30 occasions on issues of economic policy". en.wikipedia.org... www.informationclearinghouse.info...

You pick up on a taste of what PCR was writing and then call me pro-Putin/Russian . I think you protest too much and show your stripes .The fact that you bring in a counter to some of the info in PCR piece shows that you are willing to go to China to become a pro/western propagandist .Your attempt to project what you are on me is a joke . I don't care where I find the truth ,but if I didn't care what the truth was I would take your advice except the part about doing research ...have a good day