Freemasonry and the New Atlantis

reply to post by Kantzveldt

Oh...I appreciated learning something from your thread here. Sometimes...(to use a metaphor)..I think some threads are kinda like discussing elephant guns with an elephant in the room!

reply to post by Kantzveldt


The Egyptian knowledge the European mystics followed was primarily Hermetic lore from Egypt
Much of it influenced not only Masonry but science also.

The book The Forbidden Universe is a great reference to the historical source of much of western mysticism:


www.picknettprince.com...

The Forbidden Universe uncovers a story that has been suppressed for centuries: that an ancient magical tradition holds the key to the true origins of science. In 1543, from his deathbed, the astronomer Nicolas Copernicus published his great world-changing work, setting out the sun-centred model of the cosmos. For most historians this marks the start of the Scientific Revolution, but this book charts an alternative story, which begins with the rediscovery of long lost Egyptian documents: the writings of the legendary sage, Hermes Trismegistus, or 'thrice-great Hermes'. The astonishing secrets of the Hermetica cast their magic over many of the greatest minds in history. Although barely acknowledged today, the Hermetic revival not only fuelled the Renaissance but also launched the revolution in early scientific thinking that formed the bedrock of the Enlightenment. As Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince prove in this brilliantly argued history, all the pioneers of science - Copernicus, Tycho Brahe, Kepler, Galileo, Bacon, Leibniz and even Isaac Newton - owed their world-changing achievements to forbidden occult beliefs.

Kantzveldt
reply to post by mysterioustranger

 

If it wasn't i'm sure they'd have something to say

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

 

The Mountain of wit there being Mount Nebo upon which Moses was buried, the Babylonian equivalent of Mercury/Hermes, NB the nib or beak of the scribes.

edit on Kpm430103vAmerica/ChicagoMonday1430 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

And Jesus was transfigured on mount Hermes aka mount Hermon.

BuzzyWigs
It was Sir Francis Bacon who edited/translated the Bible into English. This is very interesting to me.

I was just working on an idea for a thread about Jesus, Magic, and the condemnation of 'Magic' in monotheism. Jesus was a 'magician', some believe. And for some reason, everyone is condemned if they practice it - which is, incidentally what Jesus taught - that we could all do what he has done. The Jews WERE into Kabbalah, and also reincarnation, in Jesus's time.

S/F to the OP (very interesting thread, and ties into another one about Babylon, Islam, and magic)...

Really got my gears turning (well - squeaking, anyway).

edit on 4/14/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (I always mess up "Francis" (the male name) and "Frances" (the female name.)

This is just a clarification not a condemnation.

Yahoshua WAS NOT a magician.He did not perform any kind of magic and in essence did not perform miracles either.... they were perceptions of others however they were not delusions or illusions.Yahoshua clearly stated he did and said NOTHING unless he heard or did it through the Father…and no that doesn't mean he performed a "ritual" of magic or gnosticism or kabbala or anything else…. he was simply stating that it was being done "through" him not "by his "powers".

Yahoshua stated he was not "of" this world .That doesn't mean he was from another planet or was an ascended master he was stating his existence.He existed in two realms simultaneously.The physical realm and the kingdom of the creator God realm.That's how he did what is "perceived" as miracles.They are not "miracles" in the kingdom of the creator God realm they are "natural".They are not breaking any laws of physics of the Kingdom of God realm.The lower laws of the physical realm were conforming to the higher laws of the kingdom of creator God.There was NO magic involved at all because there s no such thing as "magic"..because Magic is "delussionment" and of course the lowest level of "false magic" illusion.

Yahoshua never "taught" that everyone (we) can do what he did.The fact is the majority of all the things Christianity believes Yahoshua is talking to them is not(and the things they believe he is talking to others is to them!).The fact is he was speaking directly to the disciples.In this case there is no doubt since it was at the last supper...in other words Yahoshua NEVER said everyone could do the things he did.He said the apostles(disciples at the time) would…and the records show they did however it has no record that anyone else did.This is the common case of extrapolation of things that are NOT in the scriptures only assumed to be by association.It is the common practice of religion to "create" doctrines when no doctrine or truth to the doctrine exist.

Also Yahoshua was NOT a Jew.Yes he was born through the line of Judah through his mother.However he was not a practicing"religious" Jew in the least because it was not his "nature or character"(the meaning of a name) to be religious in any form.Everything he did broke Jewish traditions and law.By the Jews twisted law they could execute him but not by the laws of Romans.They tried to kill him many times because of this.The bottom line is Yahoshua was NOT a Jew ....he had nothing good to say about the Jewish religion(and all religion).

The bottom bottom line is Yahoshua was NOT a magician in any form nor a Jew nor did he say anyone but the apostles would do what he did.This is very very important to DENYING ignorance because most people believe MANY things in ignorance.

Here's another video that speaks on Saint Germaine/Bacon whatever name you'd like to give him and his 'mission'.

reply to post by Rex282

The bottom line is Yahoshua was NOT a Jew ....he had nothing good to say about the Jewish religion(and all religion).

The bottom bottom line is Yahoshua was NOT a magician in any form nor a Jew nor did he say anyone but the apostles would do what he did.This is very very important to DENYING ignorance because most people believe MANY things in ignorance.

Oh! Okayyy....
Well, as far as I recall, he said

New International Version
Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

New Living Translation
Then Jesus told them, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and don't doubt, you can do things like this and much more. You can even say to this mountain, 'May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and it will happen.

English Standard Version
And Jesus answered them, “Truly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what has been done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ it will happen.

New American Standard Bible
And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.

King James Bible
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.

...

and many more....

biblehub.com...

I don't see where his statement was solely to the apostles/disciples and not intended for everyone. But then again, the 'Biblical' Gospels are lacking.

Sorry. If I've missed a cue, please show me where. I'm not a theologian, nor a 'Biblical scholar', but these are the things I've picked up over the decades of studying him/his story.

And, I beg to differ, (sorry) but he was a Jew. Perhaps an Essene/Gnostic Jew, but a Jew all the same.
Lots of people try to minimize the esoteric teachings of his and claim he never said or intended any of it as 'mystic', but I simply don't believe that. When cross-referenced with older traditions and ideas, his teachings match up very well with mysticism and its general approach to Divinity.

If you have detailed sources that refute this information...... Again - I'd appreciate having them posted here for [everyone's] reference.

reply to post by Rex282


Your post is mixture of about six different "theories", none of which are correct... You should read more and stay away from solely christian mystics, which I think is what you're doing.. Jesus didn't exist in two dimensions at once and that isn't referenced anywhere, which is ironic since your pulling up the OP for apparently saying something that isn't referenced....

Where is a quote from Jesus saying he is multi dimensional? And don't you get that him saying it was 'acts of the father' done through him was him saying that everything he or we do is an expression of God?... That's if you believe Jesus genuinely said that quote, which I won't debate here and I'm not saying he did or he didn't..

You're very sure you are right, there is no room for debate in your post so I wonder why you're here.. You're clearly not researching if you're already sure you are right... Which you are not, so I encourage you to switch from preaching to learning as in your current mode you are in danger of ruining or derailing good threads, such as this one...

Elijah23
reply to post by Rex282

 

Your post is mixture of about six different "theories", none of which are correct... You should read more and stay away from solely christian mystics, which I think is what you're doing.. Jesus didn't exist in two dimensions at once and that isn't referenced anywhere, which is ironic since your pulling up the OP for apparently saying something that isn't referenced....

Where is a quote from Jesus saying he is multi dimensional? And don't you get that him saying it was 'acts of the father' done through him was him saying that everything he or we do is an expression of God?... That's if you believe Jesus genuinely said that quote, which I won't debate here and I'm not saying he did or he didn't..

You're very sure you are right, there is no room for debate in your post so I wonder why you're here.. You're clearly not researching if you're already sure you are right... Which you are not, so I encourage you to switch from preaching to learning as in your current mode you are in danger of ruining or derailing good threads, such as this one...

72 Bible Verses about Multidimensionalism



CdT

reply to post by Willtell


It was from Egypt but it was Greek thought of the classical period and the Alexandria school, they only really looked to Egyptian and Near Eastern religions to provide inspiration for what was very much their own take on things, certainly the Greeks were behind scientific rationalism.


reply to post by qwerty12345


I had a dream once set in Paris in the vicinity of Saint Germain, it was a bright sunny day and crowds were passing me going toward the Paris Saint Germain stadium, full of life and happily waving their merry tricolors, whereupon i chanced upon the ghostly and ghastly white apparition of la Comte Saint Germain who informed me that all his works had been pointless and that life was better simply lived rather than studied...a true dream

Kantzveldt
The Mountain of wit there being Mount Nebo upon which Moses was buried, the Babylonian equivalent of Mercury/Hermes, NB the nib or beak of the scribes.

Yes, Lomas misinterprets it to mean Mount Horeb, assuming a connection with the Masonic Rite of the Holy Royal Arch. Cowley though was not a temple builder, not in that sense anyway. Nor was Bacon. It was from Nebo that Moses saw the promised land that he was never to enter but to where he had led his people, just as Bacon, according to Cowley, had led the founders of the Royal Society to the promised land of reason.

"Though Reason cannot through Faith's mysteries see,
It sees that there and such they be;
Leads to heaven's door, and there does humbly keep,
And there through chinks and key-holes peep;
Though it, like Moses, by a sad command,
Must not come in to th' Holy Land,
Yet thither it infallibly does guide,
And from afar 't is all descry'd.”

Kantzveldt
...la Comte Saint Germain...

Which one?

reply to post by KilgoreTrout



It would be the one associated with the French revolution as those carrying Tricolors had the appearance of romantic young revolutionaries, even though they were going to a football match,though he is often associated with inspiring it he is also understood as regretting the course of events.

Going by the general accounts the Dragon Prince of Transylvania it would seem...

Mystic and Philosopher

The Holy Magic revealed to Moses discovered within an Egyptian monument
and preciously preserved in Asia under the emblem of a winged dragon.

1. To find things lost in the seas since the flooding of the globe.
2. To discover mines and diamonds, gold and silver within the bowels of the earth.
3. To preserve one's health and prolong one's life for a century

Saint Germain and the Dragon

The Triangular Book

I'm sure he was right though and that life really is too short for all this craziness

Kantzveldt
I'm sure he was right though and that life really is too short for all this craziness

Your dream, and 'he' only a manifestation of what your subconscious wanted to communicate to you.

However...

One of the unique things about humanity is the special human brain. We have the capacity to think and to memorize. We have something that can have very special qualities. Because of that, education becomes very important. I believe that education is like an instrument. Whether that instrument, that device, is used properly or constructively or in a different way depends on the user. We have education on the one hand; on the other hand, we have a good person. A good person means someone with a good heart, a sense of caring for the welfare others, a sense of commitment, a sense of responsibility. Education and the warm heart, the compassionate heart-if you combine these two, then your education, your knowledge, will be constructive. Then you are yourself becoming a happy person. If you have only education and knowledge and a lack of the other side, then you may not be a happy person, but a person of mental unrest, of frustration. This will always happen. Not only that, but if you combine these two, your whole life will be a constructive and happy life. And certainly you can make immense benefit for society and the betterment of humanity. That is one of my fundamental beliefs: that a good heart, a warm heart, a compassionate heart, is still teachable. Please combine these two.

www.livingdharma.org...

We've been the 'New Atlantis' since the end of the 4th root race. After the catastrophes of Atlantis/Lemuria the ones who survived mingled with survivors from other regions of the Earth producing our current "Aryan" root race, the 5th root race of Humanity. By 2062, exactly 100 years after our solar system aligned with Aquarius, we will see the fall of our 5th race and the rise of a new Humanity, the 6th root race, which will be born from the mingling of the survivors of the cataclysms to come.

reply to post by EviLCHiMP


Are you a member of the theosophical society I take it? Or a fan of H.P. Blavatsky?

reply to post by Elijah23


With all do respect, is a label necessary in order for knowledge to hold any merit?

Blavatsky is simply a source amongst many but definitely only a small piece of the puzzle.

reply to post by CirqueDeTruth


You've missed my point, I know that the bible references what we could class as "multidimensionalism" but I was asking where Jesus said he existed in 2 dimensions...

The Bible references these things because the bible is a reference to knowledge much older than the text itself, which many of you will know and it contains much kabbalistic and hermetic gnosis, of which multi dimensions as we now call them, was an integral part.

But knowing that and ending up at Christ being a multi dimensional being who was doing no magic or miracles but every day boring stuff in the super fun time dimension that just looked amazing here is two different things, very different... One of them a bit crazy.

EviLCHiMP
reply to post by Elijah23

 

With all do respect, is a label necessary in order for knowledge to hold any merit?

Blavatsky is simply a source amongst many but definitely only a small piece of the puzzle.

edit on 15-4-2014 by EviLCHiMP because: (no reason given)

Yes, a source is necessary for knowledge to hold merit, especially when it is something that you can not know intuitively... Such as that we are the 5th of 7 races like Blavatsky and her theosophical society states, as we wait for our next maitreya... And so on, so yes, it does matter. And she is one of many sources that states that same thing yes but there are many varying theories or streams of knowledge that are quite contradictory to Blavatsky's work and also hold good merit.... So a source let's us know which theory you are spouting...

Elijah23

EviLCHiMP
reply to post by Elijah23

 

With all do respect, is a label necessary in order for knowledge to hold any merit?

Blavatsky is simply a source amongst many but definitely only a small piece of the puzzle.

edit on 15-4-2014 by EviLCHiMP because: (no reason given)

Yes, a source is necessary for knowledge to hold merit, especially when it is something that you can not know intuitively... Such as that we are the 5th of 7 races like Blavatsky and her theosophical society states, as we wait for our next maitreya... And so on, so yes, it does matter. And she is one of many sources that states that same thing yes but there are many varying theories or streams of knowledge that are quite contradictory to Blavatsky's work and also hold good merit.... So a source let's us know which theory you are spouting...

You are entitled to your opinion, but not everyone is lucky enough to have access to information that you can't find on the internet.

reply to post by EviLCHiMP


Are you saying that you have access to information that is not available on the internet? Or that I do? ...

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Great thread OP.

I agree that their input would be helpful, but one thing to remember, two of the greatest occult minds that were associated with Freemasonry were already students of hermeticism many years before their masonic associations, Freemasonry implements hermetic thinking and rituals in their organization but they are by no means the inventors of hermeticism so I do believe that approaching any of the mysteries there is absolutely nothing wrong with being hypothetical because, again, two of the greatest associated with the occult were not initiated into the organization until later in life their own investigations and philosophical thinking led them to same fork and foundations at the footsteps of the Masonic Religion.

Someone said it earlier, Manley P. Hall explains a lot and he does make it clear that the modern version and speculative Masonry is really a shadow of the original craft and also of operative Masonry, and many teachings in the ancient mystery schools were not written and also you have to remember that after Alexander the Great commissioned the building of the Library in Alexandria, they were able to amass many books and writings/tablets etc that it is highly probable were destroyed when it was reportedly burned down, that may have held many secrets, but again the ancient mysteries, rituals and methods of application were not always recorded.

Crowley was key to compiling many of the keys to correspondence and the planets and their numerical assignments which are very powerful when utilized, many of the Talismans, Keys, Sigils were derived based up (SOL OM MON) Solomon and also the Alchemist-Magician John Dee or 007 (two balls and a Cain)

The root of most of this thinking is the Kybalion and mental alchemy , changing base metals to gold allegorically speaking.

Here is a book apparently written by a Freemason that will assist in explaining some things if you have no idea about Hermeticism I have found an excellent audio book in the public domain and will share it below to those who want to study.