US in Iraq worse than Hitler

The head of Turkey's parliamentary human rights group has accused Washington of genocide in Iraq and behaving worse than Adolf Hitler,

From linked article

"The occupation has turned into barbarism," Friday's Yeni Safak newspaper quoted Mehmet Elkatmis, head of parliament's human
rights commission, as saying. "The U.S. administration is committing genocide...in Iraq.

"Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the

pharoahs (of ancient Egypt), nor of Hitler nor of (Italy's fascist leader Benito) Mussolini," he said.

"This occupation has entirely imperialist aims," he was quoted as telling the human rights commission on Thursday.

source

With the footage of the soldier killing the unarmed, injured Iraqi freedom fighter it is little surprise that the U.S is now trying to bully other countries into signing immunity accords shielding U.S. personnel from being surrendered to the tribunal,

From linked article
The Republican-controlled Congress has stepped up its campaign to curtail the power of the International Criminal Court, threatening to cut economic aid to governments that refuse to sign immunity accords shielding U.S. personnel from being surrendered to the tribunal.

The move marks an escalation in U.S. efforts to ensure that the first world criminal court can never judge American citizens for crimes committed overseas. More than two years ago, Congress passed the American Servicemembers' Protection Act, which cut millions of dollars in military assistance to many countries that would not sign the Article 98 agreements, as they are known, that pledge not to transfer to the court U.S. personnel accused of committing war crimes abroad.

source

What I find surprising is that Britain is one of the countries that is opposed to the stance that the U.S is taking on the grounds that it undermines the treaty.

If there are no "War Crimes" being committed then the U.S should have nothing to fear.Discuss.

I think that Mehmet Elkatmis needs a history lesson. Maybe he can begin with the chapter about his own nation's genocide in the last 100 years.


EDIT: forgot what millennium this is.

[edit on 27-11-2004 by cavscout]

Such a diatribe is completely unworthy of comment and to keep from being docked points I will end this sentence with a yawn.

The man who wrote that article is a fool, trying to play off emotion of uneducated people. In hopes of getting people angry due to the fact they have not payed attention to the truth.
-If the United States was to commit genocide as he put it we would have lost very few troops. The reason we are losing our soldiers are due to the fact we are playing by the rules of civilized warfare only attacking direct threats instead of anyone we see. It would be a lot easier to just roll through the cities shooting on anyone we came across.
-That marine who shot in the mosque was protecting himself and his squad, a moving body in iraq no matter how injured might be has proven to be very deadly. If he was just trying to commit genocide he would have just entered the room spraying bullets instead of checking the enviroment in proper military fashion.

Genocide is a crime of hatred, There are many genocides going on in the world today, fortunately none are being committed by the United States.

That's O'K Grady. Those red flags can be a real bummer.

Posted by ItWasntMe
There are many genocides going on in the world today, fortunately none are being committed by the United States.

Well it's interesting you should point that out. Google defines genocide as "the systematic and planned killing of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group." Isn't that what the U.S is doing to the "insurgents" who are not an army, but are in fact Iraqi citizens fighting against an occupational force whose invasion of Iraq is classed as "an illegal invasion" by the United Nations?

Posted by ItWasntMe
If the United States was to commit genocide as he put it we would have lost very few troops

Well compared to the death toll of over 100 000 Iraqi civilians you could consider the number of U.S troops killed as "very few".

As we have seen in other threads the U.S policy seems to be to "filter information" coming out of Iraq in regards to things like casualty numbers so I feel it would be safe to assume that's not the only information being filtered. There are more and more reports about these incidents appearing everyday,

From linked article
Iraq News, BAGHDAD, The U.S. military has used poison gas and other non-conventional weapons against civilians in Fallujah, eyewitnesses report..

�Poisonous gases have been used in Fallujah,� 35-year-old trader from Fallujah Abu Hammad told IPS. �They used everything -- tanks, artillery, infantry, poison gas. Fallujah has been bombed to the ground.�

�They used these weird bombs that put up smoke like a mushroom cloud,� Abu Sabah, another Fallujah refugee from the Julan area told IPS. �Then small pieces fall from the air with long tails of smoke behind them.�

He said pieces of these bombs exploded into large fires that burnt the skin even when water was thrown on the burns. Phosphorous weapons as well as napalm are known to cause such effects. �People suffered so much from these,� he said.

Macabre accounts of killing of civilians are emerging through the cordon U.S. forces are still maintaining around Fallujah.

source

Maybe we should listen to what people like Patrick Collins, a 13 year career vet just back from Iraq who heads the Iraq Veterans Against War, has to say about things,

"The war itself has taken on its own identity. No longer are there any delusions about finding WMD's the is no Baathist organization to be weeding out. Now it has come down to what all real wars must come down too. US or THEM. The problem within this is that really the US is them and the Them is US. We are dealing a very heavy hand to the insurgents right now and from what I am hearing from my contacts this is no short term solution. The mission here is to capture or kill as many insurgents as possible and to keep pressure on them throughout the country. Therein lies the rub.....when you run around a country that isn't yours and kill massive amounts of their citizens, how can you expect to keep a popular uprising down? I would like for just ONE example of limited warfare incursion where this model has succeeded. source

It seems it is very easy for some of us to dismiss these reports as "rubbish" but as we know, the embedded media "presstitutes" can only report what they are allowed to. Sooner or later, the real truth to what has been going in Iraq will come out.

You guys. The crimes that are being committed in our name are atrocious.

If you can't say anything sensitive to the situation, why do you rabblerouse?

There's an out-of-control war machine at work. Maybe that's why we have company, eh?

Well let me tell you that the Bush administration not only has committed a genocide in Iraq (and other palces), it behaved like Hitler in Guantanamo (and other palces), but it is also after building the new Roman empire. Also the bad thing is that most of the Americans think just like Mr. Bush!

Mehmet Elkatmis isn't only refering to the genocide in Iraq. He is refering to the entire history of the United States which has murdered, raped, enslaved, and kidnapped hundreds of millions of people.

With that in mind, The United States is the murderer of people.

Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that:

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.

There is a tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made in a thread the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress...

en.wikipedia.org...'s_law


You lost!

Strangly I find myself coming to the defence of the U.S. on this occasion.
What fool likened America in Iraq to the nazi regime? get a grip! I would hope if the U.S ever did anything like that, the rest of the world would bomb them into oblivion!

BUT THEY HAVENT !!!!!

Ive never heard a more over the top lunatic analogy! Shame on you.

The very last paragraph of the article in question:

"Underlying Turkish criticism of U.S. policy in Iraq is the fear that Kurds in the north of the country may use the general turmoil as an
excuse to seek independence from Baghdad, a move which could reignite separatism among Turkey's own Kurds."

And there we have a very nice explanation for all that big talk.

As for the comparison with Hitler... well, not a good one.

But there are certain things going on in Iraq, starting with the very reason why USA went to war there, that make people think.
Obviously, Bush goal wasn't the freedom of Iraqi people. If that had been the primary objective, the plan, the way the war was fought, would be much different. Also, in real world, wars NEVER start because of such altruistic goals. Wars are fought for money, power, oil, strategic influence, personal revenge. Several of those are the reason for Gulf War 2.

To generals playing these war games, civilians who die are not human beings, they are acceptable collateral damage.

If we compare the wars of the past with the ones we fight today, if we compare how normal everyday people perceive it, one thing is very evident: although we still kill eachother every day, in this day and age human life is valued a lot more then it was in the past. A lot more people are aware of how horrible an act of killing another human being is. We value life more, hence why the outrage at all the dead Iraqi civilians is so big. We see the injustice, the brutality of that act, even though we fight against insurgents. Maybe there is still hope for humanity.

Sorry, for the slightly incoherent thoughts, I had a few drinks

This article should be for us an occasion to think about the relationships between the USA and the Nazis. After WW2, many Nazis were welcomed in the US and hailed as bringers of science and wisdom. Without the Nazis, no A-Bomb. Without the Nazis, no Spaceflight. Without the Nazis, no anti-bolchevist struggle. Without the Nazis, no USA.

Originally posted by Mokuhadzushi

This article should be for us an occasion to think about the relationships between the USA and the Nazis. After WW2, many Nazis were welcomed in the US and hailed as bringers of science and wisdom. Without the Nazis, no A-Bomb. Without the Nazis, no Spaceflight. Without the Nazis, no anti-bolchevist struggle. Without the Nazis, no USA.

And, how high does YOUR grass grow? (Wow, I could beat that up all day, but I've got somewhere to be. See you in about 6 hours my friend! Be ready!)

Well yeah we are kinda behaving like the nazi's in that we are being the aggressor in a war...and guess what, war is ugly. If there are 100,000 dead civilians in Iraq I would be suprised. If we have used a "poison gas" I would be suprised...however if we used some kind of sleeping gas or something I would believe that.

That fire bomb is a nasty weapon and so is the MOAB ... I think that the U.N should ban the "use" of such weapons.

But i would put estimates BELOW 20,000 ... thats just a guess.

Anti war people believe that it is ok to lie in order to prevent a war...the only problem with that is People that Want War are willing to do far worse than just lie in order to go to war.

Originally posted by HISTER
That fire bomb is a nasty weapon and so is the MOAB ... I think that the U.N should ban the "use" of such weapons.

Firebombs and fuel-air bombs are already banned under the geneva conventions.

I think saying that the U.S. has surpassed Hitler in Iraq is unfair. The Nazi regime not only murdered Jews - it built machines to dispose of them more efficiently, like the gas chambers and the crematory ovens. It also commissioned the infamous Dr. Mengele to experiment - most often painfully - on Jewish subjects. I think that the horror and inhumanity of all that has yet to be matched. I hope it never is.

However... the U.S. is indeed going about the occupation of Iraq in a clumsy and heavy-handed way. The mission to topple Saddam has turned into a mission to "build" Iraq - and the U.S. is ignoring the fact that some Iraqis may genuinely be pissed off at being occupied by a foreign force. But the Bush administration has a "shoot first and discuss later" and "diplomacy is for wimps" attitude. And let's not forget the "We don't have to understand terrorists - we just have to kill them." And as long as that doesn't change - as long as the U.S. administration doesn't realize that not all terrorists become terrorists for the same reasons - it's condemned to kill more and more Muslims.

As for the International Criminal Court... well, if the U.S. wants immunity, then it can't deny any other country immunity - unless there's a double standard I don't know about.

How about those "daisy" or cluster bombs they used in afghanistan?

Originally posted by instar
How about those "daisy" or cluster bombs they used in afghanistan?

I agree. The inhumane and war criminal fashion in which the US uses forbidden weapons to bomb civilian neighborhoods and infrastructure do indeed qualify as equals as the atrocities of WW2.

Psychosis, you picked the perfect name, friend. Genocide is NOT when terrorists and murderers come pouring into Iraq to kill our soldiers and disrupt the Iraqi life and in turn, our troops kill them. Your attempted point is nothing but a perverted stretch of any truth.
So is your regurgitation of the lie that 100,000 Iraqi non-combatants have been killed in this war. The trurth is closer to 4,000. While that is certainly more than anyone would like to see, that is still much lower than the ridiculous number shrilly screamed out by those unable to think things through. CAn you imagine the stuctural damage had we been so careless as to kill 100,000 non-combatants? No, obviously you can't.

Yes, we find it very easy to dismiss as rubbish that which weak-kneed, spineless liberals throw in our faces, not to mention the garbage by Mr. Elkatmis. He's the head of the Human Rights commision? Do you have any idea how the Turkish government deal with the Kurds? Do you want to know about human atrocities that are going on and have been going on for a long, long time? You need to speak to some friends of mine who have spent time in Turkey. After talking to them, you wouldn't listen to anti-U.S. propaganda again. Or maybe you would, but you'd know you were buying into what is more than likely a lie.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Psychosis, you picked the perfect name, friend. Genocide is NOT when terrorists and murderers come pouring into Iraq to kill our soldiers and disrupt the Iraqi life and in turn, our troops kill them. Your attempted point is nothing but a perverted stretch of any truth.

No my friend you are stretching the tuth and insulting this fellow poster. The iraqi resistance is not made up of foreigners. Stop believing Bush lies.

So is your regurgitation of the lie that 100,000 Iraqi non-combatants have been killed in this war. The trurth is closer to 4,000.

No, poor idiot. The figure 100.000 is not a 'lie', but scientific truth, published by a world's leading medical journal.

While that is certainly more than anyone would like to see, that is still much lower than the ridiculous number shrilly screamed out by those unable to think things through. CAn you imagine the stuctural damage had we been so careless as to kill 100,000 non-combatants? No, obviously you can't.

You seem to watch Fox News. I pray for your sick soul. Civilian neighborhoods were among the top priority targets for the animals of the US Air Force.

Yes, we find it very easy to dismiss as rubbish that which weak-kneed, spineless liberals throw in our faces, not to mention the garbage by Mr. Elkatmis. He's the head of the Human Rights commision? Do you have any idea how the Turkish government deal with the Kurds?

Ahhh, the Kurds, a newfound friend for the Bush psychogarbagists, since Turkey told them to bugger off. Remember that expression 'the poor Kurds' the human rights loving republicans will not fail from using it over and over and over and over.

Do you want to know about human atrocities that are going on and have been going on for a long, long time?

Honestly, Thomas Crowne, since when have you become a fiery advocate of human rights ? What happened to you my little warmongerer ?

You need to speak to some friends of mine who have spent time in Turkey. After talking to them, you wouldn't listen to anti-U.S. propaganda again. Or maybe you would, but you'd know you were buying into what is more than likely a lie.

Nobody listen to your Nazi friends.