A Military View of the Bundy Ranch Situation: Why Everyone Should Be Worried

reply to post by OpinionatedB


No permit for 15+ years?

BRING IN THE TANKS

Do you expect to be held at gun point for not paying your rent?

reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace

We have had those rights for, what, 200 years? This overwhelming attitude of shoot first ask questions later attitude by the cops has been something that had become a serious problem in the past 30 years or so and it is escalating. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

No, you just don't know your history:

In April, the Dillinger gang settled at a lodge hideout called Little Bohemia Lodge, owned by Emil Wanatka, in the northern Wisconsin town of Manitowish Waters. The gang assured the owners that they would give no trouble, but they monitored the owners whenever they left or spoke on the phone. Emil's wife Nan and her brother managed to evade Baby Face Nelson, who was tailing them, and mailed a letter of warning to a U.S. Attorney's office in Chicago, which later contacted the Division of Investigation. Days later, a score of federal agents led by Hugh Clegg and Melvin Purvis approached the lodge in the early morning hours. Two barking watchdogs announced their arrival, but the gang was so used to Nan Wanatka's dogs that they did not bother to inspect the disturbance. It was only after the federal agents mistakenly shot a local resident and two innocent Civilian Conservation Corps workers as they were about to drive away in a car that the Dillinger gang was alerted to the presence of the BOI.Gunfire between the groups lasted only momentarily, but the whole gang managed to escape in various ways despite the agents' efforts to surround and storm the lodge. Agent W. Carter Baum was shot dead by Nelson during the gun battle.

en.wikipedia.org...

Back then, both sides had Tommy guns. Now, they have M16s and Kalashnikovs. There has been a mutual escalation in firepower, not attitude.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


That's not my argument at all nor do I think he is legally in the right but I also know laws are written to protect the super rich. The land was donated by his family to the state but granted his family grazing rights to the land with no expiration. Obviously a big mistake to begin with but it wouldn't surprise me if it was under duress anyway. My point was you are doing the same thing the BLM are doing by calling him a "freeloader" when he is a hard working rancher to justify the position of a greedy and self-righteous government.

reply to post by DJW001

Back then, both sides had Tommy guns. Now, they have M16s and Kalashnikovs. There has been a mutual escalation in firepower, not attitude.

I disagree.

I see police becoming more and more abusive and drunk on their own power.

There also isn't a tandem escalation in firepower when police departments have armored vehicles like the MRAP and full auto weapons.

There has been a huge escalation in attitude. As well a complete overhaul of how police from the street cop to the SWAT team operate:

Here's a Google Search Result page of what happens when you type in Militarization of Police

This is an interesting scenario developing.
The rancher may be in the wrong but the gov't response is ridiculous.

I understand not many military personnel would fire on US citizens but I can imagine they will say budget cuts reduced the number of troops LEO available and justify bringing in something like the Blackwater guys.

Then I can see them recruiting a couple meth heads, dressing them up in militia garb, arming them and having them infiltrate the militia crowd. Then at just the right moment one is programed to fire his weapon and its on.

reply to post by Biigs


No but I expect to be thrown out on my ass on the street.

And if instead of leaving I call in my friends with lots of guns and various protesters to stand between my friends with their guns and the cops with their guns I expect the cops are going to get out their own guns.

OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biigs

 

No but I expect to be thrown out on my ass on the street.

And if instead of leaving I call in my friends with lots of guns and various protesters to stand between my friends with their guns and the cops with their guns I expect the cops are going to get out their own guns.

Except that's not what happened here and you know it.

The timeline of escalation of force is well documented for all to see.

reply to post by Biigs


Yep no permits!

Hmmm, ya know, so far I've seen a few park rangers with tasers and a couple of dogs, a few SUVs. and a dump truck. Hardly the military. What the hell am I missing here?

reply to post by ~Lucidity


Maybe you missed the snipers?

The command and control center they are setting up?

The ROZ they put up to control the battlespace?

reply to post by Rosinitiate


I believe you have seriously heard wrong.

The dispute between the Bundys and the BLM revolves around unpaid “grazing fees” and public land that has been closed off to protect the “desert tortoise.”

The BLM designated 186,909 acres of the Gold Butte off limits for the “critical desert tortoise” population in 1998. Bundy had already lost his grazing permit five years earlier for refusing to pay fees for the land, which his family has ranched since the 1870s.

Since the 1800s ranchers have taken up homesteads and used land for their cattle herds. Ranchers abided by the “Three-mile Water Law,” which entitled them to grazing rights for land three miles around water the rancher owned or maintained. Disputes were settled amongst the ranchers themselves.

“There have been people shot through the last century over grazing disputes,” Goicoechea said. “There’s no doubt about it.”

Until 1934, disagreements over the land were not adjudicated. The “Taylor Grazing Act,” signed by President Franklin Roosevelt, set up districts for grazing on public land, and issued permits to ranchers for a more orderly process.

However, those permits for the majority of Clark County—including the permit for the Bundy Ranch—were transferred in 1998 to the Habitat Conservation Plan to protect the desert tortoise..

freebeacon.com...

reply to post by projectvxn


Maybe? Every time I go to search or see a video this is what I see: park rangers.

Oh and also some pics from other incidents used to illustrate stories about this.

Do you have links to pics of the snipers and militarized police?

reply to post by projectvxn


No its not... and you still haven't answered me when I asked you..

Listen to yourself for a minute.

You are saying that this man, on his own land, in his own home with wife and two or so kids, suddenly for no reason found themselves, on their own land, surrounded by an army of feds with snipers...

No one else there, and no justification..

So how did the protesters and militia show up in the first place again?

OpinionatedB
reply to post by Biigs

 

No but I expect to be thrown out on my ass on the street.

And if instead of leaving I call in my friends with lots of guns and various protesters to stand between my friends with their guns and the cops with their guns I expect the cops are going to get out their own guns.

Your point is taken however there are so many folks large and small who are basically "squatting" on the american dine these days that the governments response in a case like this falls on deaf ears. The cattle are eating grass for petes sake and it grows back every year. The only thing in crisis here is government power and fee collection. There are already hordes of lawless of every stripe "grazing" on public wealth.

The government should just consider these grazing lands a subsidy to the cattle raisers like it does for so many others for any number of reasons and forget about it.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


I did answer you.

You're just not reading.

Here's a link since you don't wanna bother with what I'm saying.

It's also a good read for you too lucidity

reply to post by Logarock


The guys with guns showed up because guys with guns showed up.

Its got nothing directly to do with the land or the cows.

Unless.... the cows are terrorists, quick Edd, its coming right for us!

so in all this was this bundy guy ever given or even been offered just compensation for his land that was taken as the constitution demands?

Biigs
reply to post by Logarock

 

The guys with guns showed up because guys with guns showed up.

Its got nothing directly to do with the land or the cows.

Unless.... the cows are terrorists, quick Edd, its coming right for us!

edit on b2727740 by Biigs because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Logarock


Bundy does not contest the legitimacy of the federal government’s existence. He looks right to the constitution for a solution to his problem, and fails to find one. If a government has a right to exist, it has a right to own property, and do with it as it sees fit.

reply to post by projectvxn


Serious question please.

Is this just a redneck conflict ?
All I see is white Americans, cows and guns ...