How about we make separate 'nations' for each religion?

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Well it was sensible, stuff has to move in a cycle though, men couldn't take the lack of equal opportunity, took over, started the dark ages, women couldn't take the lack of equal opportunity, and well, the story isn't finished! Maybe this time it'll work out better!

reply to post by ScottProphhit

stuff has to move in a cycle though, men couldn't take the lack of equal opportunity, took over, started the dark ages, women couldn't take the lack of equal opportunity, and well, the story isn't finished! Maybe this time it'll work out better!

Maybe so!

Thanks for your contributions.
Honestly, I just want everyone to get along, stop hating and killing and fighting.
Bumper sticker on my ride:
I'm For Separation of Church And Hate.

I have the answer - why don't we all stop being human?

The root cause of all of this is human nature and none of us wants to acknowledge it. If we did, we'd stop blaming everything else. The reason we can't get along is because we can't get along. It isn't because of this or that religion. If we didn't have religion to blame it on, we'd find other reasons to not get along.

People don't get along with each other. That's the bottom line. We don't live with each other in mind as beings worthy of consideration, and when we fail ... we blame any and every other reason rather than the truth - we're just plain miserable when it comes to treating each other well.

reply to post by ketsuko


There is two aspects to being human. Love and fear. Fear comes from love btw, its the other end of the spectrum but the whole spectrum is love. That's human nature.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by ScottProphhit

 

Maybe so!

Thanks for your contributions.
Honestly, I just want everyone to get along, stop hating and killing and fighting.
Bumper sticker on my ride:
I'm For Separation of Church And Hate.

No problem, and well the life of a dreamer is full of just that

reply to post by ketsuko

I have the answer - why don't we all stop being human?

The root cause of all of this is human nature

I've already acknowledged tribalism, which is to what you are referring.

The problem is for HUMANS to overcome the 'us vs them' thinking.
There is an excellent book by Robert Wright called Non-Zero that everyone interested in this subject would do well to read.

Ingeniously employing game theory—the logic of "zero-sum" and "non-zero-sum" games—Wright isolates the impetus behind life’s basic direction: the impetus that, via biological evolution, created complex, intelligent animals; and then, via cultural evolution, pushed the human species toward deeper and vaster social complexity. In this view, the coming of today’s interdependent global society was "in the cards"—not quite inevitable, perhaps, but, as Wright puts it, "so probable as to inspire wonder." So probable, indeed, as to invite speculation about higher purpose—especially in light of "the phase of history that seems to lie immediately ahead: a social, political, and even moral culmination of sorts."

In a work of vast erudition and pungent wit, Wright takes on some of the past century’s most prominent thinkers, including Isaiah Berlin, Karl Popper, Stephen Jay Gould, and Richard Dawkins. He finds evidence for his position in unexpected corners, from native American hunter-gatherer societies and Polynesian chiefdoms to Medieval Islamic commerce and precocious Chinese technology; from conflicts of interest among a cell’s genes to discord at the World Trade Organization.

Wright argues that a coolly scientific appraisal of humanity’s three-billion-year past can give new spiritual meaning to the present and even offer political guidance for the future. Nonzero will change the way people think about the human prospect.

reply to post by ScottProphhit


Wait. Can you look at your post again, please, and separate what ketsuko said and your response to him from my reply to you?
Please?

Thanks again, Scott


....ETA: thanks. Wanna be neighbors?

reply to post by ketsuko

You might quietly find your answer in these pages: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Get rid of religion, let the fighting die down.

= No more war and hatred.
Simples.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Yes, but separating us even further isn't the way to do that. As has been already pointed out, certain religions already have their own nations and it doesn't work.

Again, it is human nature. People feel insecure when the people around them are different for whatever reason. I, personally, don't get it. You have your thing; I have mine. They're different things, so be it. I'm cool with that so long as you keep your things in your life and don't attempt to make them my things over my objection.

Thing is that there are a lot of people who have their thing and feel like it if it's right for them, it must be right for everyone. The key is that they don't realize that they feel this way, not because it actually is right for everyone, but because they feel challenged by the notion that others might feel like something else is right for them.

Why do you think teens have so many fads? It isn't because the hip, new thing is really all that great; it's because no one can stand the thought of not being like everyone else. It makes them feel better about themselves to be like everyone else, even if they really don't like what the hot, new thing is.

This doesn't change just because you leave high school.

Wont work.

People stake to much value on land. If someone of interest has died there, then no one but their followers could ever own it. We would have millions fighting over a worthless strip of land............................... Oh.. Wait................Nvm.

reply to post by ketsuko

Thing is that there are a lot of people who have their thing and feel like it if it's right for them, it must be right for everyone.

Exactly. But it isn't. As soon as they figure that out....they each want their own club-house.

The key is that they don't realize that they feel this way, not because it actually is right for everyone, but because they feel challenged by the notion that others might feel like something else is right for them.

Okay....right.....no argument there.

Why do you think teens have so many fads? It isn't because the hip, new thing is really all that great; it's because no one can stand the thought of not being like everyone else. It makes them feel better about themselves to be like everyone else, even if they really don't like what the hot, new thing is.

Right. Like religion. Everyone in your neighborhood goes to _________ church/temple/mosque. So you have to go there, too.

This doesn't change just because you leave high school.

Nope! It surely doesn't.

The thing is, there were people (like myself) in high school who refused to conform to 'the hip fad' - and recognized they WERE different from everyone else. It wasn't easy, but it was real....I have never attended a high school reunion. I don't care to see those people who thought they were oh-so-special-and-cool.

The other thing that doesn't change just because you leave high school is the fact there are 'mean girls' and 'jocks' and 'preppies' and 'bong-squads' and 'debate dorks' and 'cheerleaders'. All segregated in their little bubbles of specialness.

So, for those groups to each have their own zone is reasonable. They can leave the rest of us everyone alone to do whatever they want.
I hated high school. It was emotional torture (the social aspects of it; I was a straight-A student and in the marching band = dork). LOL!!!!

reply to post by Dizak

We would have millions fighting over a worthless strip of land............................... Oh.. Wait................Nvm.

LOL!!
Yeah.
That.

reply to post by OpenEars123

Get rid of religion, let the fighting die down.

= No more war and hatred.
Simples.

Thank you

reply to post by ketsuko

Yes, but separating us even further isn't the way to do that. As has been already pointed out, certain religions already have their own nations and it doesn't work.

Okay, was just reading through again.

First you said it is human nature. That there's no help for it.

Now you are saying that separating people is not the way.....
but
but
isn't that contradictory? If people need to be separated; if that's (in fact) human nature, AND you say there's no help for it ----
then why force tribes/groups to live together? That's rather counterproductive.

Either humans can learn to get along, or they can't. You said they can't.

But then you say that setting up separate territories isn't the way, either.

Granted.
So. Now - what do we do?

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Not really. You're just enabling the problem. People do what they do because they never learned how to be truly comfortable and confident inside themselves, in their own skin.

Be who YOU are, not whom you think everyone else expects you to be. People are tribal because it's much easier to be whom you think everyone else expects you to be. So, segregating everyone into tribal areas will only reinforce that group affirmation bias without actually teaching you to stand on your own as yourself.

Groups of self-affirming individuals are better off than tribes because they can think independently without forming a "box" of groupthink. By dividing us instead of challenging us, you doom us through a lack of intellectual diversity.

The problem, or catch-22, is that it's much easier to be lazy and form a tribe rather than actually do all the work to figure out how to be a fully-realized individual instead of just looking at everyone else in the group and being like them.

some of us are trying to develop something fair, borderless and controlled by individual citizens not corporations and politicians.

Direct Democratic Republic

some of your contributions would be very welcome!

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


What happens when the children are born that don't believe or have different belief systems? They become adults and then there becomes a division and wars and fighting and prosecution happens.

Instead of separating everyone, we can find peace by allowing others to believe what they want - and by that, I don't mean not allowing people to express their view that another person's belief system is wrong. I mean, not prosecuting or harming people for their beliefs.

reply to post by arpgme

What happens when the children are born that don't believe or have different belief systems?

And there we have it.

What about the kids? It's simply unworkable -
kesuko is, of course, also correct that enabling divisiveness is not an answer - but facts are facts. Human change comes in little tiny increments. They say seven generations for a 'new mode' to kick in.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


With all of the wars that start in religion's name as is, the last thing we need to do is separate everyone out.. I imagine even more wars would break out as a population expands and wants to usurp the "holy land" of another religion..

I think diversity is a good thing in the long run.. as an example, you wouldn't bomb the next state over if you knew you would also be killing "your" people.. but if you knew it contained ONLY those of another religion you may not "agree" with .. you'd be less hesitant ..

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by arpgme

 

What happens when the children are born that don't believe or have different belief systems?

And there we have it.

What about the kids? It's simply unworkable -
kesuko is, of course, also correct that enabling divisiveness is not an answer - but facts are facts. Human change comes in little tiny increments. They say seven generations for a 'new mode' to kick in.

Not to mention, it's pretty much like the plot of the movie "Divergent" .. segregating populations didn't work so well for them