Police Shoot and Kill Man for Watering Lawn

It's just sad. And ridiculous that Ortiz and Shurtleff had absolutely no repercussions.

How can anyone justify a person, being killed by police after a lengthy surveillance, for holding a water hose?

What has happened to the human mind. The only sense that I see coming out of that thinking/action is an explanation of why society seems to be going downhill.

Sprinkler system be safer!

greencmp
reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy

 

This is just too common, 12 rounds no less.

I believe we may have to consider passing legislation to disarm them in our towns at least then we can talk about cities.

I have some ideas for replacing the existing police system with civilians in a jury duty model.

edit on 9-4-2014 by greencmp because: (no reason given)

In America if the cops put more than 10 rounds in the target do they win a cuddly toy or something??

wisper
Sprinkler system be safer!

Be careful. That may be seen as a weapons stockpile and receive a visit from swat.

The neighbor who called the police should have to pay for this murder. A good citizen does not call the cops. The police are your enemy.

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


Possibly someone already mentioned this but, even if he had a gun he was not breaking the law. Whoever was called, 911 dispatch probably, should have asked if he was pointing a gun at someone or threatening someone with it, otherwise there is not even a need to send respond units. If I have my gun in my hand in my yard what crime has been committed? Even if I am drunk, what crime has been committed?

When people start firing back is when this kind of stuff will end. The police were acting outside of the law just by responding. When the police act outside of the law they are criminals. What should one do when a gang of armed criminals approaches ones home and ones family with guns drawn?

There are no law officers to call so who does that leave to protect ones self and ones family?

reply to post by DestroyDestroyDestroy


This is what you get when you have folks joining the force just to kill with impunity! There should be cameras on every officer and stiff prison sentences for criminal cops!

roadgravel

wisper
Sprinkler system be safer!

Be careful. That may be seen as a weapons stockpile and receive a visit from swat.

WMDs? Maybe considered an assault hose, too high a capacity?

How can we expect big scary "assault weapons" to not scare these people when a common garden hose has em calling the cops?
What a sad story, and worst part is, I feel like there's a similar story on the news in this country daily now.

reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace

I keep wondering about what those neighbors are thinking about now and do they feel any effects of the mistake they made.

I think everyone is jumping the proverbial gun here, he was not watering his lawn, from my take he was messed up and acting like an idiot.

Two people inside the calling party's residence could see a man on the porch landing with a gun, which was described as a "six shooter."

When the initial officers arrived, they confirmed that the subject appeared to be armed with a handgun. They positioned themselves so they could watch the suspect while waiting for additional officers/resources, including the Air Support Unit and Mental Evaluation Team. For everyone’s safety, the officers did not immediately contact the subject to allow time for those resources to arrive and lock down the area, to prevent the subject from escaping the location while armed.


Victim Doug Zerby
They observed that the subject appeared to be intoxicated and was holding what appeared to be the handgun described by the calling party.

As additional units and resources were responding, the subject pointed what officers believed was a handgun at the apartment building. The subject continued to manipulate this object, which made noises similar to a handgun.

As the subject was in a seated position, he used a two handed pistol grip hold of the object with his arms fully extended, consistent with the behavior of someone about to discharge a firearm. When the subject pointed the object at one of the officers, two officers fired their weapons at the suspect, striking him in the torso multiple times.

Source

There is a picture of the nozzle, and from a small distance away it sure would look like a gun to me, and if I saw him pointing it at buildings or people I would call the police too. The response was too much, but he was not just a regular guy watering his garden.

reply to post by Speedtek


Spend more time in the garden section of Lowes, home depot, walmart...

Also, look for pictures of what is commonly referrer to as a six shooter (revolver) and compare the nozzle. Check some old western TV shows.

reply to post by roadgravel


Look at the source I posted, its not a big yellow nozzle, there is an actual picture of the nozzle from the incident, its black and looks very gun-like.

Speedtek
reply to post by roadgravel

 

Look at the source I posted, its not a big yellow nozzle, there is an actual picture of the nozzle from the incident, its black and looks very gun-like.

I've seen those for several years at the stores mentioned, Doubt I am the only person to have seen them. Willing to bet at least one cop has one at his house.

I am going out on a limb and say you don't own a spray water nozzle for a hose.

reply to post by Speedtek


Oh yes, lets go by the cheif's idea, or the side of the PD, of what happened. That is in no way one sided...This man agrees with what the cops did 100%, even manages to get a shoulder shrug in describing the events that lead up to the shooting, as if the cops really did have no choice but to shoot this man.

Yes we can say that he had something in his hand that looked like a gun. I am sorry, there is no way that it sounded like a gun. It sounded like a gun because the officers wanted it to sound like a gun.
Anyone that has ever been around firearms could tell the difference between a water nozzle and a six shooter. It needed to look like a 6 shooter because that is how the caller described it. Even went out of his way to say it looked in no way like a berreta or .45. Yes there s 6 shooter .45's but in the context of the caller's call it was clear he thought he thought he was looking at a six shooter revolver.
The nozzle looks nothing like a 6 shooter.

For cops to stand there for an extended period of time and not come to the conclusion that it was not a gun shows me that they had it in there mind from the get go that this man had a gun without a doubt and that is why such a quick reaction to shoot.
Yes there was a small chance he had a pistol, but the more obvious answer was that he in fact did not have a pistol.
Cops get fall back to all the "what if" and "the last guy" and the one we are not suppose to touch "I am going home to my family tonight"
Did this man not deserve an opportunity to go home to his family?
Cops need to put everyone else before them, they are there to protect and serve the people, not them self's
And despite what every one wants, people on the other side of the law are poeple too.
That is the point of the due process

This man did not know the cops were there, as admitted by the police, so how could he be pointing something that he did not know was there?

Doesn't take much to qualify as a police officer in America does it. I bet there are countries world security guards get more rigorous Training.

Merinda
Doesn't take much to qualify as a police officer in America does it. I bet there are countries world security guards get more rigorous Training.

It's not so much the quality of the officer (that's certainly a factor, but it's not the factor) as the rules revolving around escalation and use of force. Every military on earth, including the US military has more restrictive rules regarding engaging and shooting at targets than our police force does. On top of that they are being trained more and more that the way to make sure they can go home safely at night, is to take you down in the afternoon.

reply to post by ItCameFromOuterSpace


I dis agree, it's just simply.

A lot of them are stupid, to stupid to be cops, but if you are smart they will not hire you.

Find some logic in this, I know if they are to smart they will quit, well you don't have to get the ones with Iq of 130 or higher. But at least get some with IQ above MORON.

reply to post by Domo1


I understand the point you are making much better now. You do bring up valid points and in this instance articulated them well. I also understand now that you were venting frustrations out with your first couple of posts. So I get it. I've had the temptation do so many times and have succumbed myself on occasion.

Myself, I have not lived in literally dangerous areas but I have worked in some. I've never had to call the police on anyone but I attribute that to my own laid back attitude. I was raised to mind my own affairs and respect the privacy of others even to the extreme. Short of witnessing destruction of property, violent actions or a non-drug related felony I'd never ring the law. I give people the benefit of the doubt in this regard. I wouldn't call the cops if I saw a stranger in my neighborhood/condo complex(I've lived in both types of residential housing in my time) carrying an object that looked like a firearm. I'd try to confirm it was a firearm from an obscure area before I rang. Now if he was straight out brandishing a firearm, plain as day, I'd call.

I also understand your opinion on the matter however. We simply have a different outlook on the use/need of law enforcement personnel.

reply to post by minusinfinity


Maybe the neighbor who reported him didn't like the guy and took the opportunity to have him shot by the police for having something that looks like a gun. He knew the odds of the outcome. That or complete stupid cops. Who knows?