Artists install massive poster of child’s face in Pakistan field to shame drone operators

HomerinNC
reply to post by dazbog

 

Incorrect. The OP said the pic of the child on the ground is to make the drone pilots hesitate before launching attack. Other posters said the US military are a bunch of cowards. I countered that the enemy is just as much as a bunch of cowards by hiding behind innocent victims.

War is ugly, and it is sad that innocents are caught in between, but dont dump ALL the blame on the USA. part of it goes to the insurgents as well

ETA: doing a little research, I've discovered in 2004 ALONE, over 167 dead, countless wounded in suicide bombers in Pakistan.
How many DRONE related deaths?
Wanna know?
REALLY wanna know???
A huge whopping total of 7, thats right, SEVEN deaths.
Collateral damage, al be it 1 or a thousand is bad, inexcusible.
But do NOT forget, no General got up in the morning and told a drone pilot, "Lets go kill us some civvies today," Yet the insurgents go out WITH that specific goal in mind
my flagBut what do I know, I'm just some dumb American waving chanting 'Go USA, Go USA', right?
*SMH*

Suicide bombing deaths in Pakistan in 2004

Drone related deaths in Pakistan in 2004

edit on 4/8/2014 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

" But don't dump ALL the blame on the USA " Why not ? We are the most sophisticated military force on planet Earth.

We invaded two sovereign Nations and are currently killing civilians in Pakistan. Who shall I blame for the deaths caused

by Drones or any other instrument of war manufactured in the good ole U.S of A. Who ?

Bravo on your research < See my sig line.

like many here,I have been in Combat and killing noncombatants by default or design always causes more harm then good,
always ! The Military definition of collateral damage.

The last sentence is most disturbing and inflicts the most harm.

" Unintentional or incidental injury or damage to persons or objects that would not be lawful military targets in the circumstances ruling at the time. Such damage is not unlawful so long as it is not excessive in light of the overall military advantage anticipated from the attack."
Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms. US Department of Defense 2005.

Back to the OP poster. Touching gesture but our governments " World Wide War on Terrorism " Terrorism being a Military tactic is not something one may overcome, no matter how many explosives we utilize.

Although I'm American, I am not proud of my governments moronic actions. Frankly they are children pretending to be wearing big boy pants. And I would almost bet some smart ass will put a big fat crater between the poster kids eyes.

No offense Amigo. I just shouldn't write this stuff when I'm POd.

reply to post by dazbog


you must have missed the post where i said these people intentionaly put these children in harms way in order to make the US look like monsters. i have seen it first hand. How else would we be hitting non combatants if these cowards were not hiding among them?

reply to post by V22tech

V22tech
You must have missed the post where i said these people intentionaly put these children in harms way in order to make the US look like monsters. i have seen it first hand.

I doubt you've seen it first hand. If you did, you shouldn't post it on the internet (OPSEC???).
The US is not supposed to have boots on the ground in Pakistan.

V22tech
How else would we be hitting non combatants if these cowards were not hiding among them?

This has been pointed out several times now.
High collateral damage is approved by policy.

reply to post by V22tech


Most anyone who has put boots on the ground in the sandbox knows the real truth. Despite what msm spews people in the intelligence community know first hand how deep and widespread the hate is for the western world.

It's easy to miss the hate at the other end of a keyboard.

Even here.

reply to post by TiedDestructor

TiedDestructor
Most anyone who has put boots on the ground in the sandbox knows the real truth. Despite what msm spews people in the intelligence community know first hand how deep and widespread the hate is for the western world.

It's easy to miss the hate at the other end of a keyboard.

Even here.

No doubt there are elements that will hate the west no matter what.
That's no reason to fuel their agenda even more though, and that is the long-term outcome of this ruthless strategy.... also widely known outside of intelligence.

And don't mistake well-founded criticism for hate.

reply to post by ColCurious


What exactly did i post that was opsec? I never said i witnessed this in Pakistan, use a little reading comprehension first and dont tell me i havent been or done something just because your anti american views prevent you from hearing the truth. I worked on a S.E.A.D aircaft and SAMs which i mentioned are not used only in Pakistan. I have also personaly been inside a SAM control hut and know how the dishes can be removed and placed else where.

reply to post by V22tech


Alright then, apologies. I assumed the topic was drone-warfare IN PAKISTAN?
Also, why would I doubt your service... I don't even know you.
In turn, you clearly don't know me: I'm in no way anti-american... I'm anti-idiocy.
I'm fully aware that a distinction has to be made between the sinister machinations of the current US Government and the people of your nation.

**In fact, I had quite a few debates with US patriots who see it exactly the same way. Are they anti-american too?

TiedDestructor
reply to post by V22tech

 

Most anyone who has put boots on the ground in the sandbox knows the real truth. Despite what msm spews people in the intelligence community know first hand how deep and widespread the hate is for the western world.

It's easy to miss the hate at the other end of a keyboard.

Even here.

I'm sorry, but the MSM has been quite the facilitator for this war.

Yes, I imagine they do hate us in countries where we have "boots on the ground." Hmmm...I wonder why? Could it be that we've invaded on a slim pretext?

And while we're at it, "hatred" is an emotion. Are we drone killing people for having emotions now?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Drones are easy to disable-


In the spirit of GW Bush- "Bring it"

reply to post by TiedDestructor


It's very tough and sad and happens in every war--innocents invariably always suffer. Tens of thousands of innocent German children were killed during our bombing campaigns against the Nazis in WWII.

Link

n 2013, drone attacks accounted for 40% of the total number of civilian fatalities from air strikes. There were 45 civilian fatalities and 14 non-fatal injuries, a threefold increase compared with 2012.

In Pakistan, he recorded "a marked drop" in civilian casualties since 2012. "Figures to the end of 2013 confirm that there has been a significant de-escalation in the number of recorded drone strikes in Pakistan," he said. Strikes were down to 27 in 2013 from a peak of 128 in 2010, and for the first time in nine years there had been no civilian casualties reported.

"At the time of writing, there have been no reported drone strikes during 2014, the longest pause since President Obama took office," Emmerson said.

Corruption Exposed
reply to post by jed001

 

How does living with your wife and children on your farm raising cattle make you a coward?

Or does living in Pakistan automatically make you a terrorist?

edit on 4/8/2014 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

i'm sure that every person in Pakistan is just innocently raising cattle on farms ,now if i were a freedom fighter/terrorist ; i guess it would depend on which side of the coin you were looking on , i would have my children as far way from me as possible . especially if i knew that drone were looking to take me out

Well you can't fault the innocent people there for doing something. Probably the wrong action though. Drones wouldn't be there if terrorists weren't there. It's like leaving your garbage out and then complaining when the flies buzz. Don't take action to get rid of the flies, go to the source and get rid of the garbage.

johnb
Link

n 2013, drone attacks accounted for 40% of the total number of civilian fatalities from air strikes. There were 45 civilian fatalities and 14 non-fatal injuries, a threefold increase compared with 2012.

In Pakistan, he recorded "a marked drop" in civilian casualties since 2012. "Figures to the end of 2013 confirm that there has been a significant de-escalation in the number of recorded drone strikes in Pakistan," he said. Strikes were down to 27 in 2013 from a peak of 128 in 2010, and for the first time in nine years there had been no civilian casualties reported.

"At the time of writing, there have been no reported drone strikes during 2014, the longest pause since President Obama took office," Emmerson said.

I love how you post this and have yet to get stars. (As of yet)

No one wants to report on that because it doesn't provoke emotion. If the msm didn't sensationalize every gun death, drone killing and supposedly racially fueled incident it would be a pretty boring news wise right? Violent crime down, civilian drone deaths down, racial indifference dwindling, less Americans AND non-Americans dying.

Shouldn't they be celebrating this?

Ohhhhh.....that doesn't do chit for ratings. All about the Benjamins baby.

jjkenobi
Well you can't fault the innocent people there for doing something. Probably the wrong action though. Drones wouldn't be there if terrorists weren't there. It's like leaving your garbage out and then complaining when the flies buzz. Don't take action to get rid of the flies, go to the source and get rid of the garbage.

This is my take...those who enrich themselves through wars maybe running out of "terrorists". They have the money, but foresee there'll not be enough dumb, willing slaves down the line. They need to convert moderate civilians into extremists. Drones are the perfect tools to achieve this goal. It IS their intention to kill as many innocent docile civilians as possible in the process. Sell it as something unavoidable, unfortunate. Their next of kin's / friends would willingly be recruited to be the next "terrorists". Meanwhile, some dumber people on this side think, "wow, we like need drones because drones wouldn't be there if terrorists weren't there. It's like leaving your garbage out and then complaining when the flies buzz. Don't take action to get rid of the flies, go to the source and like get rid of the garbage."

reply to post by TiedDestructor


It appears to me, in my opinion, that you are using these alleged stats to trivialize the current deaths as if since there might be less casualties than before then it makes it okay...if this is the case

I do agree that the media and their associates over-exaggerate current events to forward certain agendas, but the drone warfare issue is an important one regardless of whether or not said media outlet uses it for ratings.

In my opinion the media coverage, and public outrage in regards to children being killed by drone strikes is much more genuine than the obvious gun and race agendas which you mentioned. That being said, race and guns are important topics but I believe that these issues have been hijacked to forward agendas, meanwhile the drone issue is something different...it's a big fat pink elephant in the middle of your living room that cannot be ignored.

If you believe that public outrage over innocent children being murdered in cold blood is agenda driven than I feel that perhaps compassion is something that you lack...once again, this is all my opinion based on your posts in this thread.

HomerinNC

buster2010

HomerinNC
reply to post by buster2010

 

Yes this is the old claim the people that support these wars like to cry. Too bad they never can show any proof of it. So was the "insurgents" hiding behind children when our drones took out that wedding party?

I dont know about wedding parties, but I've seen the FLIR camera vids of AA emplacements and pics of stockpiled ammo held at hospitals, schools etc
How do you justify using children as suicide bombers?

I'm not saying the US in completely innocent, but war atrocities occur on BOTH sides

How do you justify America attacking a nation that hasn't attacked America?

I love how you conveniently dont answer the rest of my posting, strawman much?

If you knew anything about war you would know that many nations have used that tactic no just the so called insurgents. Many nations have used suicide bombers when faced against an overpowering enemy. And storing ammo and weapons near hospitals has also been used by many nations during time of war.

TiedDestructor

buster2010

TiedDestructor

buster2010

TiedDestructor

Corruption Exposed
reply to post by TiedDestructor

 

I'm sure you'll infer that's our fault we are hated because of ALL the harm we have done.

What else would it be?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you might believe it's because they hate your freedom?

I'm sure droning their women and children has nothing to do with it at all...

You speak as if we target them intentionally! That has everything to do with it all.

I don't know what they hate but I also don't seem them "celebrating" life.

I''m sick of being so damned politically correct in this country while the rest of the world yearns for the destruction of our people, our values and our way of life.

Maybe they should put their left foot first. The world will follow.

Yea war sucks. Get your freaking people out of the dark ages and assimilated into modern society. Maybe then the senseless occupations and warmongering will stop.

edit on 4/7/2014 by TiedDestructor because: (no reason given)

What right do you or America in that fact have to tell another nation how they should run their country? If they want to live in the "dark ages" that is their right. Take a good look at America we used to enjoy real freedom in this country until the warmongers starting getting political power now we are sliding backwards to the dark ages ourselves.

You said in a earlier post what America has done to deserve 9/11. If 9/11 happened like the official story says it did it could be because America has been attacking and interfering in these nations for almost five decades now. If your nation was being attacked by a nation that you have never attacked wouldn't you want to strike back in some way?

What a poor comparison in your last paragraph.

I'll keep my mouth shut as violation of t&c's would be certain.

Stars or not that's childish logic.

Childish logic? So you think that these nations should just sit back and let America bomb them to oblivion for no reason and do nothing about it? And Ron Paul said the same thing it's called blowback.

They have a right to do what ever they want.

But pretending America is the real problem is beyond my comprehension. The statement that America does more harm than good is such a subjective perception.

You act as if we bomb and kill Pakistani innocents on a steady basis. Why sensationalize it all?

We don't get a "ding ding" sound here in the US every time a terrorist bites the dust. But you can damned well be sure we hear a HORN decrying the unintentional loss of innocent life.

There is enough tragedy and loss of innocent life within the borders of this country. But we deserve it right?

ETA: We are too far away in thought so I won't further this.

edit on 4/8/2014 by TiedDestructor because: (no reason given)

We don't get a ding ding ding every time a terrorist is killed? Oh please every time a so called head of Al-Qaida is killed you can count on there being a report about it on the "news" channels.

What good has America done? We go into these nations kill their government and totally destabilize the region yep that's real good.

~Lucidity
Powerful and sad.

Thing is, the people controlling the drones already know there's a risk of this, and it probably won't prevent someone following orders from carrying out their mission. Even less likely to prevent someone from giving the orders. They go with a percent certainty of target and percent unrelated casualty then make the decisions based on how badly they want the target.

I never met a drone operator, that I knew of, during my whole time in the USAF, but it seems logical that this is what happens. Like you said, they don't just go indiscriminately bombing houses for fun, the operators I mean, as they are supposed to be acting off of intelligence coming to them from superiors. So if they feel they've got a chance, like the post I quoted, based on a certain percentage, they will strike. I think we should not be focusing on the drone operators, but rather whoever makes the decisions regarding where the strikes will take place. It is possible that the pilots of the drones do not have others constantly monitoring them, but that is one benefit of being on the ground while flying, instead of in the air...Others can see what is going on.

I'm sure that the operators themselves have certain conditions on which they could fire their armaments without approval from anyone else, so maybe they are to blame. I don't really know, since as I said, I never got the chance to talk to one of these pilots. Talked to other pilots, but not those behind the controls of a drone. I wonder if the qualifications are as strict for piloting drones as they are for flying aircraft with crew on board, which probably cost a whole lot more?

It's going to be impossible to stop the escalation of killer drones as long as Obama's supporters defend him and continue their rhetoric that anyone who disagrees with Obama is a racist. I agree with others that these drones will soon be killing US citizens on US soil...with more innocent collateral damage.