Foreigners dictating what it means to be British

symptomoftheuniverse

uncommitted

symptomoftheuniverse

uncommitted

symptomoftheuniverse

uncommitted

ScottProphhit
reply to post by uncommitted

 

I'm not arguing for the sake of it. Anyway would you prefer it was On topic? The topic is daft

Like I said, my comments were around the OP, I just responded to yours, but you're obviously spot on. I feel like we have stumbled into the dreams of either extreme UKIP or average BNF/EDL peoples heads and it's not a pretty place.

what has ukip got to do with bnp or racism for that matter?

You are having a laugh aren't you?

no you are. Answer the question. Stop twisting.

I'm not twisting anything. UKIP wants to reduce the right of other Europeans to live/work in the UK although that contradicts what other European countries agreed to and what people of the UK make use of - racist?

UKIP talked about the flood of immigrants from Eastern Europe earlier this year that actually never really happened - racist?

UKIP seem to do a neat trick of NIMBY racism, "I'm all for it as long as it doesn't affect me". My opinion only of course, not sure why Clegg agreed to the debates with someone whose party doesn't actually have a sitting MP.

so anyone who votes ukip are nimby racists? Wow just wow.
And the roma has not arrived in droves? Wake up www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where did I say that all UKIP voters are racist (although I think many are, but use the phrase 'I'm not racist but....' a lot). UKIP has one major ticket which seems to be closing the doors of the UK so the party has a level of racism attached to it if you like it or not.

reply to post by uncommitted


Closing borders and being racist aren't mutually inclusive. It has to do with economics, pure and simple. How does that policy make UKIP racist? Or better yet, how is that policy racist? Explain yourself.

reply to post by symptomoftheuniverse


I'm guessing you don't know anything about the EU and how the blocks work?

uk.isidewith.com...

Members of Nigel Farage's political group in the European parliament have compared childbearing Muslim women to Osama bin Laden, spoken at a rally with the BNP's Nick Griffin, and defended some of the far-right views of the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik.

playpolitical.typepad.com... ich-ein-.html

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, has defended a candidate who was pictured apparently making a Nazi salute, insisting the man was reaching for a mobile telephone whilst “imitating a pot plant”.

greenparty.org.uk...

www.theguardian.com...

In 2008, Farage controversially named Powell as his political hero in an interview with Total Politics magazine,

I'm big on the AntiFA scene so can go on all day...

--

I don't think most UKIP voters are racist, I just think they're too lazy to have researched who they support and have a xenophobic kneejerk 'no more foreigners' reaction, rather than knowingly voting for Nazis and Fascists.

reply to post by Galvatron


There's much better things we could do for our economy! We could stop spending billions on the military and millions on the drug war. We could even just make sure tax doesn't get avoided. We could fund vegetable gardens for all our people which would destroy Britains poverty. That would barely cost anything.

Well, this thread seems to be wandering in all sorts of tangents.

UKIP are a one trick pony - Europe.

The British people have never had a say on the transfer of sovereignty and power to the EU.
UKIP will allow a referendum on the issue and that is the primary reason for the apparent rise in support for UKIP.

Part of their stance on Europe is based on relaxation of laws governing migrant workers from other EU nations and also the open door immigration policy implemented by both Labour and Conservative governments.

These are genuine concerns of an increasing number of UK citizens, (including many from ethnic minority communities and origins), but we are denied the opportunity to have an open and frank public debate on these issues.
Any mention of immigration concerns are immediately labelled and demonised as racist and immediately dismissed and brushed aside despite there being valid economic considerations.

Denying the British people their right to voice these concerns and debate these issues is simply driving people towards UKIP.
Ever wondered why?

reply to post by ScottProphhit


That doesn't answer my question. I agree with you on a lot of that. As an econ major, this is an interesting topic for me. Look at the state of California in the US. It is a good indicator of what happens if immigration goes unchecked. You have a smaller and smaller population paying taxes and a larger and larger population claiming benefits. It ain't exactly rocket science. The state is practically bankrupt and has to borrow huge sums. This is despite the large high-tech industry there. I agree, there are other areas where money can definitely be saved and the economy strengthened, but unchecked immigration is actually a rather big deal economically. If that political platform, immigration, is making them as popular as they are, then it is obviously affecting people. I don't care who you are, Mexican, Chinese, Polish, italian, Japanese, whatever, if you want to come to the US, then great! But it has to be on our terms. A good friend of mine is from Indonesia, he's a US citizen now. He has a degree in electrical engineering, and works with semi-conductors for Texas Instruments. It took him 5 years and 25 grand to become a US citizen. All the while paying taxes and contributing to our economy. Meanwhile someone can cross the border illegally, claim benefits, send their kids to school, not be bothered to learn the language, not pay taxes, and get free health care. When you have a high enough proportion of people doing this, it really starts to affect the economy in general.

reply to post by Galvatron


Hm. Well I guess I'm slightly more hip now thanks to you! I guess I need to learn more about immigration but I just seem to see hatred for people that have came here wanting a better life.
And as a person, I have never considered my nationality a part of me even though I've always been told to.. I just don't feel that way, as a kid I looked at strangers and thought they were family. Still do bro!

Guess ive lots to learn about the silly system we live in eh! Can't change what you dont understand!

ScottProphhit

Galvatron
reply to post by ScottProphhit

 

Disgusting. Being British means nothing? That means being Japanese, being German, being Xhosa, being Mandarin, being Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish means nothing.

edit on 9-4-2014 by Galvatron because: (no reason given)

You started correctly! But religions arent nationalities, so what does it mean? It doesn't matter how you twist it, as a Scottish kid I'm exactly the same as a Chinese or African kid, I don't look the same but if you base life on your 5 senses you're barely thinking! Why do you think they even made the UN? So we wouldnt make a real one! Where no matter where you were born, you are labelled human before that.

And if you truly think the world needs nationalism to be competive, then you obviously don't want a future where civilization develops itself only for the benefit of all people, any other way is selfish.

Oh and Japan isn't a good example, when they call all non Japanese people foreigners even if they had spent their whole life living there. That is the opposite of a great society

edit on th2014-04-09T12:39:33-05:0020143030-05:00Wed, 09 Apr 2014 12:39:33 -05002014p12 by ScottProphhit because: (no reason given)

Out of this post a few things made me think you are being just a tad naive

Why do you think they even made the UN? So we wouldnt make a real one! Where no matter where you were born, you are labelled human before that.

It isn't a one but a multiple... The United Nations, the key being they agreed on fundamental values. One of their finest moments in my eyes is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Then this:

And if you truly think the world needs nationalism to be competive, then you obviously don't want a future where civilization develops itself only for the benefit of all people, any other way is selfish.

It's very British to be sporting, in fact it's very human to be sporting. I agree with fair play fundamentally but when you live in a world where nobody wins or loses or nobody wants to be better than the person they temporarily counterpart themselves with then nothing is worth it... It is literally pointless, we as a race will never better ourselves unless we have something to judge the line of betterment by.

To boil it down to it's very essence, what you are describing is this.

A world where everyone looks the same, acts the same and dresses the same. If one advances they all advance.

We'd be absolutely nowhere with that line of thought or activity.

reply to post by RAY1990


That last paragraph threw me off, I dont understand that.

And the United Nations is a good idea that is corrupt.

And do you think no national pride(mate, Hitler is the best example we've got for that) means no competition? Are you unable to live without football or something because that minor thing never crossed my mind.. I said the world doesn't need a nationalist point of view to be competitive!

Yeah that last paragraph, dresses the same? Acts the same? Where did you get that from? A world where all nations in the world have a UN that can make sure that no corrupt # goes on in any country, business or whatever! The system we live in now is shambles, why are you on this site if we don't all agree on that simple thing.

Paint it as an immigration row...
Paint it as a cultural hi-jacking...
Paint it whatever you like with rose tinted glasses...


Bottom line is this in an upscale version of the Housing debacle...
It's an upscale version of the Education row...

It's about the Haves...& the Have-Nots!!!

Where is the Rachel Riley of Calcutta???
Where is the Prof Stephen Hawking of Beirut???
Where is the Bill Gates of Ramallah???
Where is the Sir Dr Robert Winstone of Falujah???


& it's just tough luck according to some!!!

But the reality is... It's the Haves & the Have-Nots!!!!!

Sod UKIP... & Sod this EDL Infomercial!!!!!

Civilisations degradation has always been a result of the Haves & Have-Nots!!!!!

& it will always be ignored and portrayed as something completely different at the exact opposite end of the spectrum!!!



Finally...
& I'll be clear about this...
Some will understand...
Others will be irate... Sod them as well...

Britain does not have a culture!!!
Culture is based on Ethnic or Religious grounds!!!
Britain is (majority wise) based on Catholics & Protestants!!!
It is formed by ULSTER, SCOTLAND, ENGLAND, & WALES!!!
All completely different cultures!!!
Ethnically & Religiously!!!
A British culture is a fantasy!!!
A falacy!!!
A dream world!!!
An impossibility!!!
Britain was Multi-Cultural from its Birth!!!
But go ahead and drink the sweet, sweet EDL/BNP KoolAid!!!
Because the Diabetic Shock will be FATAL!!!


Peace everybody!!!

CharlieSpeirs

Britain does not have a culture!!!

Yes, yes it does.

"The culture of the United Kingdom is the pattern of human activity and symbolism associated with the United Kingdom and its people. It is influenced by the UK's history as a developed island country"

Culture is based on Ethnic or Religious grounds!!!

There are many definitions of the word culture, you are thinking of the wrong one.

Britain is (majority wise) based on Catholics & Protestants!!!
It is formed by ULSTER, SCOTLAND, ENGLAND, & WALES!!!
All completely different cultures!!!

Which all come together to form what we refer to as British culture, Scots live in England, English live in Scotland...same for Irish/Ireland Wales/Welsh....whilst each country has it's own individual things in their respective cultures, they also share a great deal of culture.

Britain was Multi-Cultural from its Birth!!!

To begin with through various invasions yes, but when the invasions stopped, somewhere around 1066-1638, we were left with a civilisation that has developed it's culture over hundreds of years, British culture, not multi-culture

reply to post by woogleuk


Does the world not have a collective culture then?

reply to post by ScottProphhit


No, too much diversity over the ages.

Every country has it's own unique culture, but the countries of the UK have been so intertwined over the centuries that there is more similarities than not.

Yes England has some things that are purely English, same for Scotland, Wales and Ireland, but the basics of our heritage are far to close to be called completely different, hence we have British culture.

I know what I am talking about even if you lot don't, lmao, 2am here, tired and not able to explain things too well.

reply to post by woogleuk


I think a culture is unlimited in how diverse it can be

reply to post by ScottProphhit


Yes and no, it depends what type of culture you are trying to define.

Culture is one word, many many meanings and definitions.

That being said, there is a lot of diversity in British culture, but the basics, what defines us as Brits is the same.

It is a culmination of many different things over the centuries.

ETA: There will be black families in the UK who can trace their roots back to the 15th/16th century in Britain, they will have a good understanding of what it is to be British, probably other races too.

The idea isn't just for white Christians......

reply to post by woogleuk

Yes, yes it does.

No, no it doesn't!!!

It's a mixture from the beginning, remove the invasions and it's still multi cultural!!!

Irish are nothing like the English...
Welsh are nothing like the Scots...

I know this because I am half Irish & half Scottish born in London!!!
26 years is a long time to come to terms with the vast differences!!!
& that's not even including Religious culture, just Ethnicity!!!

There are many definitions of the word culture, you are thinking of the wrong one.

No I'm not at all!!!
This topic isn't about drug culture, or popular culture!!!
It's about "Britain for the British"!!!
So it's an ethnic based culture we are discussing from the OPs video!!!

whilst each country has it's own individual things in their respective cultures, they also share a great deal of culture.

We share a great deal of Land... That's where similarity begins & ends!!!
Irish rarely like to be called British... Scots rarely like to be called British...
The minority either don't mind or don't care...
But most take offense to it!!!
I'm in the "don't care" pile... But I know not to call Scots & Irish I come across British, because there is a word from popular culture beginning with a C ending in a T that most Brits would be offended by that I can personally laugh off as a "little warning"!!!

Scottish independence isn't a current contingent because they want to be associated with Britain...
It's exactly the opposite...
& if Ulster go for it as well chances are it'll just be England and Wales!!!
Even then I don't know how the Welsh feel, but considering what I heard on Question Time a lot of the Welsh were not so happy that Westminster is in charge!!!!!





Let's call it what it is... It's an English Minority of Xenophobes & Theophobes all scared of the boogeyman from abroad!!!

What happened to "the more the merrier"???...
No longer part of "the British culture"????

It's a sick joke and most refuse to laugh at it... It's cool though...
Weed out the ATS EDL sympathisers all day long, then I know who to avoid!!!

More people were in attendance for the Occupy movement than any EDL rally!!!
Hell... More people were in attendance for the London Riots than any EDL rally!!!
They are a minority...
& that is something that helps normal humans sleep at night, while they toss & turn worried about Muslamic Ray Guns


Peace Woogle!!!

There is no British culture save for what we create ourselves.
What passes for British culture is mostly a 19th century public school ethos about being a good sport and doing your bit. Much of which was hogwash since those making the biggest fuss about it used to be the ones making the most money from completely ignoring principles of fair play and honesty.

My culture is football, beer, good music, riding a bike on twisty roads. Terrible cricket, awesome rugby, wholesome food and giving my neighbours the space to live their lives with the expectation that they'll do the same for me.



I know everyone's ideas are different and I like that. I really don't want to be part of some cookie cutter, Stepford version of England where everyone is the same. And it's not just the right wing nutters that want such a homogeneous society, it's the left too, they just want different things to be ubiquitous.

How about a Britain where you respect someone else's right to be and in return they do the same for you?
I know, complete fantasy.

woogleuk
reply to post by ScottProphhit

 

.

ETA: There will be black families in the UK who can trace their roots back to the 15th/16th century in Britain, they will have a good understanding of what it is to be British, probably other races too.

edit on 9/4/14 by woogleuk because: (no reason given)

If they choose to, as an individual you have to be ability to be whatever you want. I could become a Sikh and live in India, I'd still be as British as everyone else. Because when it comes down to it, its just your place of birth! You could be more specific and have pride and observe a culture in the hospital you were born in. Because we were all born of earth son.

reply to post by Galvatron


People are starring this post but they are ignoring it.

Beautifully and succinctly put - we are letting in too much dead wood!

On the basis that British troops once walked on the turf of their countries.

So it's come to Mother Britain, we'll look after you.

"We're so sorry we had an empire once and invaded your country 200 years ago - please come, bring your friends and relatives, no need to work, no skills needed, no need to speak English, house and benefits waiting..."

TheLaughingGod
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

I think I'm gonna start claiming Native American, or perhaps Chinese, and if you don't like it you can suck it!
I'm entitled...
Next I'm gonna start claiming monkey, and after that I'm going for reptilian.

How come there's this double standard when it comes to claiming nationalities?

Do you think that Chinese people would ever accept you as Chinese simply for living in Hong Kong?
Fuggedaboutit!

Like it or not, ethnicities and nationalities aren't always just arbitrary labels, only in the world of the relativistic cultural marxist.

lol! i claim to be chinese. the uniqueness of hong kong is that it really is a place where different nationalities get along.

the local population are chinese, of course. they are left alone and the foreigners are also.

everyone is too busy making money and shopping.

again, the brits had a great hand in this and the scots.

it's like every other place i've lived. you move there and enjoy.

mainland china is ok too. shanghai, beijing etc, are foreign friendly. money.

learn a few words or the language and watch the people smile.

start making demands and the problems will start.