the complete flood myth thread

reply to post by intrptr

How do you account for the enormous success of species to reach such great size?

There must have been something about the pre-flood conditions on Earth to have people living so long for starters, beyond just genetics.

I would only be speculating. I have not been able to confirm this but there might be some clues from Carl Baugh's work

pre-flood biosphere replication


watch from the 28 minute mark onwards

----------------
For all those generally interested in the topic you might want to check out this video


Ughtasar

Ughtasar is a major rock art site located in the caldera of an extinct volcano in the Syunik Mountains of southern Armenia. In a spectacular landscape bounded by a rim of craggy peaks and rounded hills the site is home to almost a thousand carved rocks bearing abstract and figurative motifs pecked millennia ago onto the surfaces of basalt boulders disgorged long before as streams of lava. At 3300 metres above sea level the site is snowbound for nearly nine months of the year
www.ughtasarrockartproject.org...

This site is not far from Zorats Karer (also known as Karahunj or Carahunge or the 'Armenian Stonehedge')




This site is step up as an observatory, it supposedly contains the oldest archeology in the world, the people who constructed it had a very advanced understanding of astronomy. The ancient Armenian religion followed a monotheistic Creator God (predating the Egyptian Akhenaten, though Moses of the 1450BCE Exodus predates Akhenaten's monotheism as well) and supposedly from language analysis that all the world's languages trace back to the ancient Armenian one.

This stuff is for other people to look into more ...if they want to clarifying and do more research on it

How did all the animals then get back to the correct islands - i see no mention of Noah spending the next few decades returning them to their respective islands - also how are they supposed to have travelled from the Artic and Antartic to the middle east in the first place - dont see penguins or polar bears... coping to well with the heat or are we to believe that the arc had 100's/1000's of micro climates for each region of the world?

How did salt and fresh water organisms survive together in the same water ?

Did he also carry the seeds etc of all underwater plantlife as if it was suddenly covered in 1000's of feet of extra water the pressures and lack of light would have killed all corals, seaweeds ?

If the earth is only a few 1000 yrs old and we have seen evidence of evolution in beak design for instance then if evolution is so fast in large creatures why have there been no/so few further changes in the last 2-3000 years of massively documented history?

What about germs, fungus, bacteria - no mention of them being saved or transported and why would a loving god would put so many hideous diseases and organisms on the planet in the first place, all those parasites who can only exist by killing other forms of life - again why would a 'god' deliberately populate his planet with life that can only exist by killing other life?

reply to post by johnb

What about germs, fungus, bacteria - no mention of them being saved or transported and why would a loving god would put so many hideous diseases and organisms on the planet in the first place, all those parasites who can only exist by killing other forms of life - again why would a 'god' deliberately populate his planet with life that can only exist by killing other life?

A very valid and honest question. A loving God would not, but a jealous, selfish, self centered, egotistical,arrogant, lying, murdering, imposter god, would.

There can only be two types of Gods, material, or ethereal, flesh and blood or Spiritual. The flaws of the material world are not present in the ethereal. But the love, compassion, empathy, light of life, of the ethereal, can be seen in the Material. The human beings Heart.........

All Seeing Eye
reply to post by johnb

 

What about germs, fungus, bacteria - no mention of them being saved or transported and why would a loving god would put so many hideous diseases and organisms on the planet in the first place, all those parasites who can only exist by killing other forms of life - again why would a 'god' deliberately populate his planet with life that can only exist by killing other life?

A very valid and honest question. A loving God would not, but a jealous, selfish, self centered, egotistical,arrogant, lying, murdering, imposter god, would.

There can only be two types of Gods, material, or ethereal, flesh and blood or Spiritual. The flaws of the material world are not present in the ethereal. But the love, compassion, empathy, light of life, of the ethereal, can be seen in the Material. The human beings Heart.........

gods really?
lol
link(s)please
see if you can find two that agree on "GOD"

Due to some new information in this thread, I have decided to add a part five, because it’s very relevant to the entire flood myth.

In my first four parts I didn’t focus much on what exactly was causing the great flood, but after having taught it all through, we can probably narrow it down to two possible causes that works. But before we do that lets review some facts about the ancient 360 days calendar, because this calendar is definitely another missing piece in the entire flood puzzle.

The 360 days calendar

We can read in Genesis 7:11, that “in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heaven were opened” . Then we can read that “At the end of one hundred fifty days the waters had abated; and in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat”

The Flood lasted five months, to the very day, and those five months equaled 150 days. Simple division shows us that therefore 5 months of 150 days each gives 30 days per month. Therefore, 12 months would have been precisely 360 days.This means that the original calendar of mankind was a 360-day calendar, at least up until the flood.

This also means that the tropical year before the great flood was exactly 360 days. This also mean that the orbit of the moon (in those days) was 30 days instead of today’s 29.5 days

But it was not only the pre flood Sethites and the Canaanites that used the 360 days calendar. Almost all of the other ancient pre flood cultures did as well. Thus we know that the 360 days calendar was in use by the Sumerians, the Mayas, the Indians, The Egyptians, The Persian as well as ancient China. They couldn’t all be wrong.

How was the tropical year extended from 360 days to 365,25 days?


There are basically two different possibilities. Either the tropical year itself was extended by 5,25 days or the length of the day shortened.

For the tropical year to get extended the Earth must have been either hit by a large enough meteorite (knocking the Earth slightly out of course), or a heavenly body (an unknown passing planet) of some sort would have crossed Earths path dragging it slightly (gravitationally) out of course. Earth would thus end up with an elongated orbit around the sun.
For the length of the day to shorten I basically supply the short explanation as presented by Walter. T. Brown as follows: The day did not shortened through any torque on the earth, it was gravitational settling that caused the shorter day. That settling happened during the great Flood, and the violent events that attended it.

The great flood was thus caused by a subcrustal ocean that broke out of its (underground) space, causing the most severe earthquakes in the history of the earth. As the subcrustal water rushed out, the overlying crustal plate (“hydroplates”) settled down. And so, as any figure skater will spin faster as she draws her outstretched arms inward, the earth spun faster as the plates settled. (That settling released enough heat to create a molten outer core and a solid metal inner core for the earth.)
But what happened to the moon? when the “fountains of the great deep broke open,” large amounts of water, rock and mud flew into space and stayed there. The breakout happened in the 17th day of the month, when the moon was two days past full. By noon on the fifth day of the Flood (the 22nd day of the month), the moon would be at last quarter. And for the next fifteen days, several heavy objects would bombard it. Other such objects would bombard it again, for fifteen days at a time, for several months after that. Those objects would lower the energy of the moon. The moon would then drop to a lower orbit and have a shorter orbital period.

The colliding objects would have been as small as molecules and as large as boulders. Or larger. Seven of them made the lunar maria and persist as the “masscons” that make a lunar orbit difficult to calculate for the long term.
As a result of this cataclysm, Earth ended up with a tilt of about 23,5 degrees and a changed rotation speed. All this furthermore caused the day to shortened and the tropical year to be extended by 5,25 days . The moon’s orbit was at the same time changed from 30 days to 29,5 days.


The book of Enoch and the calendar

Enoch was one of the antediluvian patriarchs that lived before (and after) the great flood. He was one of the few selected human beings that was adopted by the aliens and got access to their knowledge. According to the writing that we still have left from him , he is said to have written lots of books. In the first book of Enoch, we are thus told that the tropical year is 364 days. In the book of the secrets of Enoch there are however two descriptions of the solar (and lunar) year. In the first description the tropical year is correctly set to 365,25 years, and the lunar year to 29,5, but in a later chapter about the heavenly luminaries the solar year is again said to be 364 days.

It is not easy to understand why this is done, but if one takes into consideration how many translation this book has went through, these things happens. At least it actually came out quite correct one time. In the calendar that did come out right , the year are divided in this way : January (31 days), February (31 Days) , Mars (30 days), April (30 days), may (31 days), June (31 days), July (30 days), August (31 days), September (31 days), October (30 days), November (31 days), December (28 days). Adding an extra day every four years.

The fact that Enoch thus in one of his books operates with a tropical solar year as 365,25 days, means that some of his books must have been written after the great flood.

The long lifespans before the flood.

If the year was only 360 days before the great flood, that means that these people lived a little shorter than the biblical texts tells us. The difference is however minimal. Adam who lived 930 years did for instance thus actually only live 917 years.

The Jews got a new calendar

After the Exodus, the aliens instituted a new calendar for His people. Thus we can read (when God instituted the Passover celebration for His people) the following: ‘Now the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, ‘This month shall be your beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year to you”

Prior to that time, from the time of Adam and Eve , the years had been counted from fall to fall reckoning. But now the aliens introduced a new calendar. In this calendar, each month began with a new moon, and the year began in the spring. Being a luni-solar calendar, since the new moon appears every 29.5 days, the months varied between 29 and 30 days, to adjust for the fraction of a day. The 12 month year varied from a minimum of 354 days, to a maximum of 385 days – as in a leap year when an extra month had to be inserted (seven years during every 19-year time cycle, to make the total lunar years equal to the solar years in every 19 years).

Yet another ancient myth

One of the most well known examples of the story of the transformation of the Earth’s orbit, comes from Egypt. It is a myth involving various ‘Gods’, whose actions are held directly responsible for the increase in the length of the year. It goes like this:

A long time ago, Re, who was god of the sun, ruled the earth. During this time, he heard of a prophecy that Nut, the sky goddess, would give birth to a son who would depose him. Therefore Re cast a spell to the effect that Nut could not give birth on any day of the year, which was then itself composed of precisely 360 days. To help Nut to counter this spell, the wisdom God Thoth devised a plan. Thoth went to the moon God Khonsu and asked that he play a game known as Senet, requesting that they play for the very light of the moon itself. Feeling confident and that he would win, Khonsu agreed. However, in the course of playing he lost the game several times in succession, such thas Thoth ending up winning from the moon a substantial measure of its light, equal to about five days. With this in hand, Thoth then took this extra time, and gave it to Nut. In doing so, this had the effect of increasing the earth’s number of days per year, allowing Nut to give birth to a succession of children; One upon each of the extra 5 days that were added to the original 360. And as for the moon, losing its light had quite an effect upon it, for it became weaker and smaller in the sky. Being forced to hide itself periodically to recuperate; it could only show itself fully for a short period of time before having to disappear to regain its strength.

Part five

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

There must have been something about the pre-flood conditions on Earth to have people living so long for starters, beyond just genetics.

I would only be speculating. I have not been able to confirm this but there might be some clues from Carl Baugh's work

Same speculation here. Good point about advanced aging of man (why not species?) Lions canines never stop growing throughout their life. How old does that make Sabre Tooth Cats? What would a 300 year old lion look like? What if enormous size of animals and plants (giant ferns for instance) was a result of constant summer like conditions (different axis) and there was only one season… summertime?

Also read somewhere that such huge forests would make earths oxygen levels higher and studies (linkless, sorry) suggest that animals grew to greater dimensions in that kind of environment.

Maybe the Giant Flush occurred because Earths life was too successful?

An impactor of significant mass would change the axis, creating seasons and extinct most life forms.

Thanks for the reply, appreciate you input on ATS.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

pre-flood biosphere replication

Watched your video several times and was very impressed with not only the knowledge but this scientist who gave the lecture. Great video and thanks for giving this to us.

reply to post by Phage

Making assumptions about what God does. Is that a good idea? What if your assumptions are wrong?

Do you even know what the word assumption means? It means to accept as true without proof. Now isn't that what theology is ? If you prove a theory then it moves out of being an assumption and becomes a fact. When you came into this thread what did you expect? Facts or theology? AS far as my assumptions being wrong? Of course they can be wrong. After all we are all discussing theology here on ATS and any one or all of us can be wrong. Of course you can play it safe by not really contributing anything such as you seem to do.

Danbones

All Seeing Eye
reply to post by johnb

 

What about germs, fungus, bacteria - no mention of them being saved or transported and why would a loving god would put so many hideous diseases and organisms on the planet in the first place, all those parasites who can only exist by killing other forms of life - again why would a 'god' deliberately populate his planet with life that can only exist by killing other life?

A very valid and honest question. A loving God would not, but a jealous, selfish, self centered, egotistical,arrogant, lying, murdering, imposter god, would.

There can only be two types of Gods, material, or ethereal, flesh and blood or Spiritual. The flaws of the material world are not present in the ethereal. But the love, compassion, empathy, light of life, of the ethereal, can be seen in the Material. The human beings Heart.........

gods really?
lol
link(s)please
see if you can find two that agree on "GOD"

Hmmm, well...........

Here at ATS there have been many threads concerning the true nature of the "Old Testament God". Personally I see him as that Physical imposter god mentioned above. Link? This is the Opinion by Joel S. Baden, special to CNN

"When God plays the villain"

The God of the Old Testament is not uniquely protective of children. After all, this is the same deity who commands the Israelites to slaughter their enemies, “man and woman, young and old.”

The same God who accepts without comment Jephthah’s sacrifice of his own daughter, who allows children to be mauled by a bear for taunting one of his prophets, who threatens Israel with such devastating famine that they will be forced to eat their own infants.

Innocent lives are rarely a moral problem for Israel’s God.

Consider the debate between Abraham and God over the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham asks his maker, “Will you sweep away the innocent along with the guilty?”

Abraham succeeds in talking God down to sparing the city for the sake of 10 innocent lives. When the city is then destroyed anyway, we are left to surmise that there must have been fewer than 10 good people there. But there might have been nine — and they burned with the rest.

Aronofsky must have recognized our modern moral conundrum: His depiction of humanity outside the family of Noah is almost entirely negative, so that we feel very little compassion for them. Even as they clamber for space on mountaintops as the waters rise.

religion.blogs.cnn.com...

The other "Divine" God, is more of a mystery. The link to "Him", "It", "The Force", spiritualism, can be found in only one place, in your very own heart. It is "My" opinion that this link can be found if one decides to find it, look for it. As I have come to know this hidden mystery God, he is not demanding, selfish, self centered, but more of a humble, knowledgeable, caring, generous, empathic inspirational force. And again, to me, he is what dreams are made of

For you, who ask for a link to this, I would say, its up to you to discover that "Link". No one can do it for you...

But sadly, not all of the "Stage Props" that walk and talk and think and interact with true human beings have that link, for they are soulless constructs designed to cause chaos and suffering. My opinion!

Added: But if you must have a link maybe the following might help you. My God, my Divine inspiration, is not dead.

This isn't about Religions, its about a Divine Spirit that will live forever, in our hearts.



www.youtube.com...

reply to post by helius


My main source of information is from the metered texts of the Bible. The metering of certain prophetic psalms and verses ensures that Bible is an untampered and closed unit of data. The Book of Enoch does not share the Bible's metering therefore it is at times unreliable. The 364 day year is probably a reflection of the 364 of 490 years that the Temple stood in Israel. The Essenes simply copy-catted the number.

There is no indication of a luni-solar calendar in the Bible either. The luni-solar year requires a 13th intercalary month every two or three years that is simply non-existant in the Bible. Therefore, Israel's calendar was 365-366 days per year starting and ending with the Vernal Equinox. Its more likely that Israel absorbed the Babylonian luni-solar custom during slavery.

This data will give you more accurate results.

As far as aliens are concerned, the Bible seem more spiritual in nature than extra-terrestial. You would have to find a way to explain the paranormal events and miracles that countless Christians experience (myself included) to convince me that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is actually an ET.

It seems more likely to me that post-modern ideology has retro-fitted the extra-terrestrial theory around the initial trans-dimensional Angelic Conflict theory.

Danbones
glaciations ending...

there was a world wide flood...but it did obey the laws of physics..and history check out the harbors dug into the edge of the secondary continental shelf...now flooded...and the red haired white bodies excavated in florida from that time again at link in sig

This is BY FAR the most credible explanation for the flood myth. The Bible is one of many sources we have that a flood happened, but to take the ark literally is a mistake. Other than a source for the story, the Bible itself is irrelevant to the issue. You have no need at all to invoke God or sin or anything else to explain the flood.

As so many have pointed out, it is literally impossible for an ark to have held all species. The explanations for where all the water came from and where it all went afterwards are laughingly torturous at best. It is certainly appropriate to point out that the whole world could not have been flooded to 29,000 feet, and that the plant life in Utah still exists after 80,000 years, therefore no worldwide flood happened.

All the explanations for why the worldwide flood did not take place are true, but by taking the story as presented in the Bible literally, you are missing the point. To say the flood "did not happen" and you can "prove" it is as simplistic a point of view as taking the story literally in the first place. You're not disproving the flood; you're disproving the Biblical interpretation and embellishment of the flood, one of many flood stories extant in the mythology of people all over the world.

OF COURSE the Biblical flood as related in the Bible did not happen. If Noah WAS a real person and he saw the rising waters, then he grabbed his family, a few goats and chickens, and ran for the nearest fishing boat. The was no ark. God didn't tell him to build it, and all the rest of the people in the world did not perish. It's really a no-brainer, and quoting the Bible or other religious tracts does nothing to support the cause of Noah. Let's get beyond that, both detractors and believers alike. You're "digging in the wrong place" here by arguing over the wrong issues.

Because yes, a flood took place. We have all the physical evidence you need. This includes old sea shores, as mentioned by DanBones. It includes underwater structures as photographed off the coast of Japan and seen off the coast of India. And it includes the geological record. We know already that the last Ice Age was receding about 14,000 years ago. There was a lot of water locked up in the glaciers and the polar caps.

Where do you think that water went when it melted out of the ice? It didn't just disappear, did it? It went into the oceans, and there was enough of it to raise the seal level a few feet. And it didn't take much. It didn't have to "cover the entire world" and put Mt. Everest under water. All it had to do is raise the level of the sea a few feet, a couple of stories worth. Was it twenty feet? Sixty feet? Whatever, it was enough to flood any coastal civilization that existed anywhere in the world. It didn't have to go inland as far as Utah. Flooding all the seacoast cities was sufficient.

Not only would this wipe out every seacoast city. It would wipe out every fishing village, wipe out any sea-based economy, kill hundreds of thousands, set back whatever nascent civilization was beginning to sprout, and, most importantly, be remembered in legend from that day forward in every seacoast population worldwide. To those people who survived this seacoast catastrophe it would, indeed, be a "worldwide flood that covered the earth." They didn't know Utah existed and in any case, who cared? There wasn't much there anyway. If there were a few Indian tribes or indigenous Asian tribes, or some Celts living in the interior of France and Germany, it didn't really matter. They couldn't write. They left no records. They were oblivious anyway.

This scenario matches the historical scientific record as we know it. We know, scientifically, that the sea level rose after the last ice age. It explains the universality of the flood myth. The glacial melting happened at the right time in the right places to account for all the stories. Invoking God smiting the evil populace, or invoking Earth fighting back against Mankind's transgressions, is unnecessary. It's ALSO unnecessary to fight against the mythological embellishments.

OF COURSE there was no ark, no Noah, no covering of the earth with water. OF COURSE God didn't do it. OF COURSE that did not happen, but you cannot therefore conclude that there was no flood.

Besides, it makes a great movie.

reply to post by schuyler

OF COURSE the Biblical flood as related in the Bible did not happen. If Noah WAS a real person and he saw the rising waters, then he grabbed his family, a few goats and chickens, and ran for the nearest fishing boat. The was no ark. God didn't tell him to build it, and all the rest of the people in the world did not perish. It's really a no-brainer, and quoting the Bible or other religious tracts does nothing to support the cause of Noah. Let's get beyond that, both detractors and believers alike. You're "digging in the wrong place" here by arguing over the wrong issues.

But you never gave any answers to your spiel. All you spouted was sarcasm and discord. You do realize that this is a theological forum do you not? And probably this subject holds the interest of the many people here who do not claim the intellect that you have inferred that you have.

Not only did Moses believe it but then many years later Jesus' Apostles also believed it because they wrote about it also. Jesus' apostles say that you are wrong. Hebrews11:7 and 1st Peter 3:20 and 2nd Peter 2:5 are saying that you are simply ignorant of the bible. Calling people liars is only through your own disbelief in both OT and NT isn't it?

JesuitGarlic
reply to post by intrptr

 

How do you account for the enormous success of species to reach such great size?

There must have been something about the pre-flood conditions on Earth to have people living so long for starters, beyond just genetics.

I would only be speculating. I have not been able to confirm this but there might be some clues from Carl Baugh's work

pre-flood biosphere replication

watch from the 28 minute mark onwards

----------------
For all those generally interested in the topic you might want to check out this video

Ughtasar

Ughtasar is a major rock art site located in the caldera of an extinct volcano in the Syunik Mountains of southern Armenia. In a spectacular landscape bounded by a rim of craggy peaks and rounded hills the site is home to almost a thousand carved rocks bearing abstract and figurative motifs pecked millennia ago onto the surfaces of basalt boulders disgorged long before as streams of lava. At 3300 metres above sea level the site is snowbound for nearly nine months of the year
www.ughtasarrockartproject.org...

This site is not far from Zorats Karer (also known as Karahunj or Carahunge or the 'Armenian Stonehedge')

This site is step up as an observatory, it supposedly contains the oldest archeology in the world, the people who constructed it had a very advanced understanding of astronomy. The ancient Armenian religion followed a monotheistic Creator God (predating the Egyptian Akhenaten, though Moses of the 1450BCE Exodus predates Akhenaten's monotheism as well) and supposedly from language analysis that all the world's languages trace back to the ancient Armenian one.

This stuff is for other people to look into more ...if they want to clarifying and do more research on it

edit on 7-4-2014 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)

I go with theory that something happened in the area of the Pacific. Looking at an age map of the ocean bed in the Pacific:

wserver.crc.losrios.edu...

The one thing that we see is that the oldest part of the sea-bed is only 150 million years old, yet there is a massive young area right around the Nazca plate. My theory is that the latter broke off from South America after a couple of meteorite impacts - the two circles seen along the fault line. The shockwave sends a tsunami around the world, as well as sending a pressure wave around the mantle of the Earth.

The increase in geothermal water flow to deep underground brings up radioactive particles and increase the background radiation levels.

Seede
reply to post by schuyler

 

OF COURSE the Biblical flood as related in the Bible did not happen. If Noah WAS a real person and he saw the rising waters, then he grabbed his family, a few goats and chickens, and ran for the nearest fishing boat. The was no ark. God didn't tell him to build it, and all the rest of the people in the world did not perish. It's really a no-brainer, and quoting the Bible or other religious tracts does nothing to support the cause of Noah. Let's get beyond that, both detractors and believers alike. You're "digging in the wrong place" here by arguing over the wrong issues.

But you never gave any answers to your spiel. All you spouted was sarcasm and discord. You do realize that this is a theological forum do you not? And probably this subject holds the interest of the many people here who do not claim the intellect that you have inferred that you have.

Huh? No answers "to" my spiel? And the Biblical story of Noah is NOT "a spiel"? That I would "have no answers to my spiel" makes no logical sense. I gave the source of the myth, the reason there is a Noah story at all. I gave a plausible, scientifically verifiable account of the flood story and where it came from. That people "believe" the Biblical myth is of little interest other than an anthropological study of mythology and folklore and perhaps the psychological study of people living in a modern eras who still profess such stories as the literal "Word of God."

What I did is also discount the idea that the flood story can be totally dismissed, that by people on this forum who point out the inconsistencies and utter impossibilities in the story as found literally in the Bible. I pointed out that they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater, too, and that there really is an origin to the Biblical story that is likely true and not just mythology.

This is a "religious" forum? It's also ATS. It doesn't belong to a theological seminary that dictates what can be said and not said, what is heresy and what is ordained "fact." If people here want to wallow in their interpretation of the Bible as literal, go right ahead, but this is not a monastery where you can live insulated from the outside world. If you are going to insist the Noah story is literally true on ATS, expect to be challenged to prove it, which you, of course, can't do. You donlt even understand where it came from.

I wrote up a thread about this a while back on another site. There's carbon dated evidence of "vast amount of glacial melt water" dumping into the Gulf of Mexico around 11500 years ago. It coincides with Plato's accounting of the sinking of Atlantis (9600 BC) and the Clovis Extinction Event. It doesn't coincide with Noah's flood which was supposed to have happened 4 or 5 thousand years ago.

Check out the thread.

www.talkparanormal.com...

reply to post by schuyler

TextThis is a "religious" forum? It's also ATS. It doesn't belong to a theological seminary that dictates what can be said and not said, what is heresy and what is ordained "fact." If people here want to wallow in their interpretation of the Bible as literal, go right ahead, but this is not a monastery where you can live insulated from the outside world. If you are going to insist the Noah story is literally true on ATS, expect to be challenged to prove it, which you, of course, can't do. You donlt even understand where it came from.

You came to argue and you believe by ranting and insulting people that you can influence others by rude stupid disinformation. Forget about the Genesis account of the Hebrews. Lets talk about the huge number (thousands) of Greek manuscripts and or fragments which verify that the church of Jesus and His apostles verify and have written the accounts of Noah's flood in not only biblical manuscripts but also many other literatures. And here you sit as the boy wonder who disputes that everybody is stupid and wrong except you. Much of the historical and even modern scientists from around the world do agree to their understanding of a world flood event. You have no idea of the magnitude of just how silly you sound. You could at least be honest and say that in your opinion that the world flood did not happen simply because the fact is you do not know either.

Now as far as me proving that the flood episode did happen as told in the huge number of Greek and Hebrew literature, I believe that the challenger must prove that it did not happen. We happen to be in a theological thread at this time and being in a theological discussion it is simply that and no more. But you being in a factual mind set must prove that your facts are truly facts. No one here claims that theology is factual except yourself and a few others and that being the case, theology is not possible to prove without becoming fact. The only facts that I can introduce are that a great number of manuscripts bear out the Genesis account of a world event that is believed by both religious and secular scientists alike.

CryHavoc
I wrote up a thread about this a while back on another site. There's carbon dated evidence of "vast amount of glacial melt water" dumping into the Gulf of Mexico around 11500 years ago. It coincides with Plato's accounting of the sinking of Atlantis (9600 BC) and the Clovis Extinction Event. It doesn't coincide with Noah's flood which was supposed to have happened 4 or 5 thousand years ago.

Check out the thread.

www.talkparanormal.com...

edit on 7-4-2014 by CryHavoc because: (no reason given)

There is evidence in some rock crystal (chert) that there was a severe bombardment of high-energy nuclear particles, such as fast neutrons around 11500 years ago. The evidence is that there are all these little bubbles in rock crystals These are only emitted from supernova and nuclear explosions. So anything that could zap rock crystals buried meters inside mountains was something with an extremely high level of energy, and that would be enough to melt ice. This event would have irradiated a swathe across North America over a twelve hour period.

reply to post by helius


I have my own theory on the flood that I got an idea of just now that kind of fits into your post. The flood was actually Earths response to increased geologic activity that increased the temperature of the Earth combined with a solar flare. Back at this time around 8,000BC the Earth was still in the ice age and all of humanity lived in a small area near the equator around Saudi Arabia. Back then Saudi Arabia had a different climate and a tropical lush green tame landscape. This is where people had lived together all dependent on an ancient culture for quite some time established in times ancient even compared to then. Outside of this tame region was a rugged untamed terrain that humans had little chance of surviving in through generations as there were dinosaurs, large carnivorous animals and no food naturally provided to sustain humans. Further than that were the massive polar regions dry desolate and icy. So the whole of mankind was stuck in a region near and north of the equator with auspiciously flat terrain pristine to farm. The Earths outer atmosphere was filled with a dense layer of ice crystals which provided climate stability and even protection and a sort of magical filtration of sunlight and UV radiation which can account for the records of humans living for well over 100 years. During a period of increased geologic volatility sun-rays were blocked and the usual water flow got messed up the delicate climate of that region was changed and crops failed and people succumbed to cannibalism and a vampire hierarchy in order to survive through their final decades. Then when a solar flare hit the upper atmosphere ice-crystals they collapsed in a chain reaction and fell to earth in their entirety flooding the entire equator completely but only for a short time. With the protective ice-canopy melted the Earth was unprotected from the Sun and thus the Ice age was rapidly concluded. During this time the plate tectonics were extremely active and the landscape of Earth was unrecognizable after the waters subsided because with the flood came an extreme shift in Earths gravitational center, this would account for the rapid development of Earth's geology and this period of extreme geologic volatility.

Also I don't think that the God's and angels in the bible can be accurately portrayed as flesh and blood sentient biological ET considering the likely fact that these beings had traveled from planet to planet to solar system to solar system without technological assistance such as space ships. These are aliens that don't need anything and are not limited and vulnerable the way Human beings are. Think about how implausible it is for a naturally-randomly evolved species to develop their culture to the point that they created technology capable of inter-stellar or inter-galactic travel. It's a ridiculous notion.

helius

Theories

Many people have speculated that the great flood could have been caused by a large meteor hitting the earth, or perhaps some large earthquakes. It has also been speculated that the great flood could have been triggered by a close passing by the unknown planet Niburu, like Sitchin claims. Others have speculated that the great flood was caused by sudden global warming who melted the worlds glaciers and poles. Other people claims that the great flood was just one of many locals flood. Other claims that the great flood never happened at all.

I like the way you give equal weight to meteors, Niburu etc and then hide the mundane (and therefore more plausible) explanation (i.e that there was no one global flood; that these are just the amalgamation of regional flood stories) in amongst that lot like it should be on equal footing.

Your first choice for an explanation should be the mundane. Only after you have examined, experimented, investigated and completely exhausted that line of thinking should you entertain the other ideas..

I certainly would not leap to the conclusion this was a world-wide event without considering the more down to earth explanations..