Is this proof there really are no Terrorists

reply to post by BABYBULL24


[DISCLAIMER - Perhaps, we are saying the same thing - the scotch is talking to me - but I had an important thing to say and I chose your comment as my soapbox]

Whatever...name one person on this planet who would stay alert - on the 100th floor of a building, not open to the public, late at night - and stoically defend a potential terrorist.

Hell, here's the bigger problem: I'm beginning to think I can't find one person on this planet that can't drive without talking or texting on a cell phone...and you want to talk about distractions?

Was it wrong what this kid did? ABSOLUTELY!

Did he have a clue what he was doing? Probably, but he didn't have any clue as to the consequences. (This is an all too common theme in many of the youth of today - action without consequences)

I view the entire war on terror as a sham of sorts, mainly because it has been proven that the Bush administration knew there were no WMD's in Iraq, yet used this as a pretense for war. Now why would they wish to go to war, yet not tell the people why they were going to war? The reason they gave wasn't the real one obviously, which most people didn't know at the time. Therefore there was something else going on behind the scenes.

So I look at the war on terrorism and think the same thing. Is this really about protecting US citizens? I think not, partly because of what you stated. If the goal were to keep US citizens safe from terrorists, why in the world are our borders not more heavily defended? It is a known fact that thousands upon thousands of illegal immigrants enter into this country every year, so it stands to reason that terrorists could easily get in as well. So why the draconian TSA and all of these other "precautions," when they can all be avoided by terrorists wishing to enter the country? It just doesn't make sense, and thus why I say there is probably something else going on here.

jrflipjr
reply to post by Bilk22

 

[read sarcasm]

VERY interesting.

So, do the domestic terrorists get better treatment than foreign terrorists; driver's license, education benefits, etc.?

No wonder they want to get in the country, rather than blow it to smithereens! It's almost hypocritical for a terrorist to get in the US, and receive all these benefits only to destroy it.

Hmmm, they need to go to plan B

Well that's not exactly what I meant. There cannot be another 911 or all the questions must be asked regarding what the heck they're doing with all the money and all the spying. So now they have to have these spontaneous "home grown terrorists" to justify the money and spying. See?

As the OP suggested and many, including myself, have done before is ask why are our borders so wide open if we're really concerned about the terrorist threat? I've been asking that for years. We spend billions fighting terrorists, on spying and data collecting and all sorts of domestic police forces, yet we do nothing to secure the border and in fact just let anyone in. On face value, it's idiotic. On a deeper level it's criminal.

There are plenty of terrorists. They just happen to be the ones drawing the border lines, not the people running across them.

reply to post by Bilk22


good points

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Point well taken.

I can tell you that there WERE WMDs in Iraq (this can be proven), but not to the extent that Powell portrayed during the UN council meeting. That was just outlandish! (although, I personally believe he was dis-informed by the CIA and misinformed by the neo-cons of the administration).

Ultimately, Reagan had it right when he said we should not negotiate with terrorists. A BIG part of that is recognizing/legitimatizing terrorists - which is EXACTLY what the neo-cons wanted. The US reaction to 9-11 was knee-jerk, at best.

I said it then, and I will say it again. Consider Sun Tzu's, "Art of War": "Know the enemy"

We failed miserably. Instead of playing their game against them, we went in full force (albeit, the US population required it).

Instead, we should have played a PR campaign to the public (I know, conspiracy theorists would revel in this), and secretly deploy our special forces.

Think about it in terms of a kid having a temper tantrum. Do you acknowledge him and give in, or do you ignore him and offer a different choice. As an adult, you take the second choice and exploit his/her weakness.

Of course, what do I know about realistic strategies? I'm just a voting citizen.

Getting off my soapbox...

reply to post by Bilk22


You bring up a GREAT point!

The problem lies in the fact that most folks believe the US government has a handle on what's going on in terms of budget, spending, political campaigns, personal agendas and [fill in the blank].

The reason there is so much "spying" (as you call it), is because of the policies laid down by previous administrations after 9-11. Most folks (likely, 80%) were proponents of the Patriot Act, which provided the NSA, et al. "carte blanche" to collect information on possible terrorists.

Now consider - and this is important! - Executive Order 12333 (signed by Pres. Reagan) says: ...intelligence agencies can only collect, retain, and disseminate information about a "U.S. person" (U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents) if permitted by applicable law, if the information fits within one of the enumerated categories under EO 12333, and if it is permitted under that agency’s implementing guidelines approved by the Attorney General." if permitted by applicable law

So....

Where were the "concerned citizens" back then? There were a few, but not enough to overthrow the law.

Despite most conspiracy theories (and I hold some to be true), the argument against "spying" was wholeheartedly in favor of support for the NSA.

As for the border issue, I would recommend you contact your local representative and bounce it off your community AND border communities (e.g. Texas, Arizona, California, New Mexico). That issue will not be won easily. It's a matter of cheap labor vs. economics vs. allies vs. common sense (I am not well versed on the subject).

reply to post by Taobender


What utter twaddle.

There's no such thing as terrorists because they aren't making themselves known every other day in the USA..

What about the rest or the world?

So small minded! I don't know what to say.

AlphaHawk
reply to post by Taobender

 

What about the rest or the world?

do tell...

Taobender
do tell...

This is one you will need to research for yourself, because clearly, you haven't done any.

Taobender
Our Southern and Northern Borders are wide open...

Is this not proof enough ?

I mean, if there really was a vast network of bloodthirsty terrorists out to kill Americans at any cost.....wouldn't we try to monitor who is crossing our borders.

If terrorists are smart enough to blow up the twin towers from mud-huts in Afghanistan, surely they are smart enough to walk across unguarded borders.

IF ATS ever makes a forum for Dumbest Thread title this one should be placed up there in the top ten.

NO that is not PROOF. Wow how ill informed and uneducated must one be to claim this!!

That is like me saying " Well no woman in my family has ever been raped, obviously there are NO rapists out there"


Threads like this (although everyone is entitled to an opinion) must be at least marked down as HUMOR or something!!

reply to post by Taobender


There are Real Terrorists

and then there are Useful terrorists (false flags)

And then there are freedom fighters labeled as terrorists (ex palestinians)

And then there are of course UNREAL terrorists like NSA making up patsies to make their annual reports look better etc.

reply to post by jrflipjr


you gotta cool avatar man

the water flow impresses me behind the guy

reply to post by jrflipjr

The PA was hatched quite a while ago as you state. I know democrats must have short memories, but it was actually a bi-partisan bill, hatched by two republicans and two democrats. It was also more restrictive than it's current incarnation under Obama, who has pushed the envelop even further by using the puppet justice department and it's attorneys to fight the limits he's expanded via executive fiat.

As for the cheap labor for the big farming industry, there is no doubt that is a large part of the open border issue. However that doesn't negate the fact that if terrorism, were a real issue, why the Southern border would be so pervious. This fact, coupled with the new "domestic terrorist" is part of a larger conspiracy. It has nothing to do with your suggestion that the government and all it's bureaucracy is cumbersome.

reply to post by Urantia1111


Your avatar is so creepy! Every time I read a thread you post on...I get stuck watching it! LOL It's like I can't look away! One of the best my friend

reply to post by Taobender


Your still quite new to this I see so i will go gently on you but I have to say this.

Your OP makes it crystal clear that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Our Southern and Northern Borders are wide open...

Is this not proof enough ? -

I mean, if there really was a vast network of bloodthirsty terrorists out to kill Americans at any cost.....wouldn't we try to monitor who is crossing our borders.

Well they are not "wide open" there is a entire federal agency dedicated to keeping boarders secure, they are called US Customs and Border Protection according to their website they apprehend close to 1000 suspects each day for breaking US laws.

They state that:

BP’s top priority is to keep terrorists and their weapons from entering the U.S. while welcoming all legitimate travelers and commerce. CBP officers and agents enforce all applicable U.S. laws, including against illegal immigration, narcotics smuggling and illgal importation. CBP deploys highly trained law enforcement personnel who apprehend more than 1,000 individuals each day for suspected violations of U.S. laws.

But back to your OP, you also say that:

If terrorists are smart enough to blow up the twin towers from mud-huts in Afghanistan, surely they are smart enough to walk across unguarded borders.

This is where its quite obvious you dont really have a in depth knowledge of this subject matter.

Firstly terrorists have tried to cross the boarders before, Ahmed Ressam was a terrorist who tried to cross the Canadian boarder into the US as part of a plot to bomb LAX as part of the Millennium plot. He was stopped by a suspicious US Customs officer as he was making the crossing and they found a whole bomb making lab in the back of his car. More recently, well last month, a Californian man was arrested trying to enter Canada so he could join terrorist groups in Syria. I am confident that if you tried to you could probably find many more examples of individuals being arrested under terrorism charges related to US Borders.

Secondly most terrorists dont really need to sneak into the US, it causes additional problems, namely that they have to avoid US Customs. Why go to the bother of trying to sneak across the US/Mexican boarder to then head up to D.C and carry out a terrorist attack when you could just as easily go get a valid US visa provided you are from a friendly country.

Thirdly, the threat of individuals form outside the US coming into contact terrorist attacks is actually probably smaller than the threat posed by the homegrown terrorists that have been born in the US and radicalized through social media and local radical preachers. Recent years have shown this to be a significant threat.

Like i said at the start I dont want to sound like I am being cruel but OP, your thread is quite obviously coming form the perspective of a individual who lacks any kind of in depth understanding regarding terrorism. You are fundamentally wrong in just about everything you have stated in your OP and there is really not a nice way to put that other than to saying you are wrong and this is why..... I am sorry i had to be the one to point it out to you, there are many on ATS who would love you to be right but the truth is that terrorists do exist, they are a threat and you need to go and read up a little bit more about the nature of terrorism before you post a thread on the subject.

if you have any questions please feel free to ask

Taobender
Our Southern and Northern Borders are wide open...

Is this not proof enough ?

I mean, if there really was a vast network of bloodthirsty terrorists out to kill Americans at any cost.....wouldn't we try to monitor who is crossing our borders.

If terrorists are smart enough to blow up the twin towers from mud-huts in Afghanistan, surely they are smart enough to walk across unguarded borders.

No ,there are bloodthirsty terrorists.They just not with the "muslin"looking ,they looks like bankers.

I don't know...deadcalm's post sure sounds misleading - trying to get us to watch the south. Meanwhile, the crazy Canucks will sneak in and....I don't know...do whatever they were going to do. Hmmmm... - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by jrflipjr


LOL....we're not the terrorists you're looking for. *as I wave my maple wand in front of your eyes*

It would seem you found us out. I guess we'll put away the attack beavers and armoured canoes...for now at least.

You may have won this round.....

Justin Beiber...

Not illegal. Certainly a terror. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Haha...he's YOUR problem now.

Seriously though....we don't want him back...seriously.

I think he's pointing out the openness of the border

I understand that....but what are you going to do? Build a 3000+ mile wall along the northern border?

The next logical question would be....why? Where is the problem that this wall would solve?