Russia wants answers on NATO troop movement in Eastern Europe

Shaiker
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

While i do not disagree in the fact that their government is illegal by the words of their own constitution i havent seen any evidence that says they are nazis or whatever except the he said she said stuff.

Can you provide some evidence to this?

They are all over the streets beating up pro-russians in Kiev. It's absolutely true and a bit of research will reveal that right sektor has fascist leanings. Even VICE has reported on this. Go to their youtube channel and watch all the updates they have posted and you will see right sector members that support hitler (no joke).

Shaiker
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

So your ok with NATO making provocative movements against other countries without just cause? You say yourself that the west was and still is meddling in the ukraine.

I was not ok with NATO trying to seduce Ukraine into NATO membership for just this reason, and I was not ok with NATO/EU meddling in Ukrainian and Russian affairs. What I am ok with is NATO doing what it was formed to do: Defending Europe. Russia made the first military move and has no right to demand intel on NATO troop movements. If they want such information they can move to help, not make demands after breaking international law.

Russia officially acted within existing agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. That means that officially, they broke no law in entering Ukraine, as Russia has already made deals with previous Ukrainian leaders in regards to such actions.

In saying this, it is quite obvious that Russia, and the US, are playing clandestine games with each other. Such clandestine activities are also, quite obviously, in violation of international law.

No one side is innocent in this matter, but i think Russia has played their cards right thus far.

daaskapital
Russia officially acted within existing agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. That means that officially, they broke no law in entering Ukraine, as Russia has already made deals with previous Ukrainian leaders in regards to such actions.

In saying this, it is quite obvious that Russia, and the US, are playing clandestine games with each other. Such clandestine activities are also, quite obviously, in violation of international law.

No one side is innocent in this matter, but i think Russia has played their cards right thus far.

They clearly broke the budapest memorandum.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

I suppose "Russia Today" is the unbiased source of media I should be getting ALL of my information from? Pot: meet kettle.

edit on 4-4-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Indeed you should because it seems to me that you only know half the story and have sucked up all that propaganda and are unable think anything unless you are told.

The stuff they call news in the west if often little more than a nice looking female new readers saying what she thinks (well what she's told to say) or softball questions and answers that have been scripted. Little to no facts let alone any news footage.

You see this is why you think a Commie is hiding under your bed waiting to kill you and maybe if you watched Russia Today, Forced yourself to endure the pain then you might just get a better nights sleep.

Go 50/50 on your pro-west/Pro-Russia news if you want to be in a position to have all the information needed to make an informed decission is all we are saying

DeadSeraph

daaskapital
Russia officially acted within existing agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. That means that officially, they broke no law in entering Ukraine, as Russia has already made deals with previous Ukrainian leaders in regards to such actions.

In saying this, it is quite obvious that Russia, and the US, are playing clandestine games with each other. Such clandestine activities are also, quite obviously, in violation of international law.

No one side is innocent in this matter, but i think Russia has played their cards right thus far.

They clearly broke the budapest memorandum.

It depends on which way you look at it.

According to the memorandum, Russia, the U.S., and the UK confirmed, in recognition of Ukraine becoming party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and in effect abandoning its nuclear arsenal to Russia, that they would:

1 - Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its existing borders.

Officially, Russia never violated Ukraine's sovereignty, as they were only transporting official Russian troops into Crimea, which was allowed under previous agreements between Ukraine and Russia.

2 - Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.

This is a grey area. You can say that Russia was threatening force by hosting war games near the border, but they never claimed it was intended as a threat, and it is their right to conduct war games within their jurisdiction.

3 - Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.

The Russian government is not currently putting economic pressure on Ukraine to influence its politics. Wealthy Russian businessman have raised the idea, however.

4 - Seek United Nations Security Council action if nuclear weapons are used against Ukraine.

N/A

5 - Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Ukraine.

N/A

6 - Consult with one another if questions arise regarding these commitments.

Has been ongoing.

----

I maintain that Russia, for the most part, has not officially broken many laws when it comes to their involvement in Ukraine. Yes, they are violating the law through clandestine actions, but so is everyone else. The only thing you could probably pin them for is the referendum...but even that is muddy.

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Vovin

 

To hell with Putin wanting answers from NATO. The whole world watched as he took crimea BEFORE the referendum. Geopolitics leading up to the situation were obvious, and Russia made their move. It's NATO's turn now. This is what happens when you chose a military contingency instead of a diplomatic one. You aren't going to get the co-operation and answers you would have been due.

you're trying to say we will some real reaction from NATO?

don't think so.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

I was not ok with NATO/EU meddling in Ukrainian and Russian affairs. What I am ok with is NATO doing what it was formed to do: Defending Europe.

NATO defending Europe? more like occupying it for 50 years now. The same NATO that aided terrorists in Libya and almost tired the same in Syria.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


"If they want such information they can move to help, not make demands after breaking international law."

Was it " breaking international law" by not fireing a shot in the Ukraine or was it " breaking international law" for allowing free and fair elections in the Crimea.

Do you think that the west paying neo-nazi groups in the Ukraine to kill 86 people was in agreement with "international law"

Is it "international law" that allows the USA to shoot it's own people like they are cattle because I'm not sure these laws are international at all.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I am not just talking about the right sector which are all well common and profound but the over all government.

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I was not ok with NATO/EU meddling in Ukrainian and Russian affairs. What I am ok with is NATO doing what it was formed to do: Defending Europe.

NATO defending Europe? more like occupying it for 50 years now. The same NATO that aided terrorists in Libya and almost tired the same in Syria.

edit on 4-4-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

I am/was against western involvement in Syria and Libya. But we both know that is a distraction on your part. I'd like to address that whole "Occupying it for 50 years now". Who exactly are the occupied nations? You realize they are all willing signatories? or is that Russian territory in your view?

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Could it not be argued that the west broke the treaty by illegally overthrowing the legitimate government and planting a western backed puppet and said response by Russia was in defense of Crimea's sovereign right to choose?.

VirusGuard

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

I suppose "Russia Today" is the unbiased source of media I should be getting ALL of my information from? Pot: meet kettle.

edit on 4-4-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Indeed you should because it seems to me that you only know half the story and have sucked up all that propaganda and are unable think anything unless you are told.

The stuff they call news in the west if often little more than a nice looking female new readers saying what she thinks (well what she's told to say) or softball questions and answers that have been scripted. Little to no facts let alone any news footage.

You see this is why you think a Commie is hiding under your bed waiting to kill you and maybe if you watched Russia Today, Forced yourself to endure the pain then you might just get a better nights sleep.

Go 50/50 on your pro-west/Pro-Russia news if you want to be in a position to have all the information needed to make an informed decission is all we are saying

You should just do yourself a favor and start reading instead of talking out your ass before your brain has had a chance to fart. You have no idea what you are talking about and no idea what my views on the subject are. Maybe you should figure that out before you go full retard.

Shaiker
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Could it not be argued that the west broke the treaty by illegally overthrowing the legitimate government and planting a western backed puppet and said response by Russia was in defense of Crimea's sovereign right to choose?.

It could be argued, and in my opinion the U.S DID break that treaty. But they did not roll tanks and APC's in. Which is why Russia has no right to demand intel on NATO troop movements.

reply to post by DeadSeraph

Which is why Russia has no right to demand intel on NATO troop movements.

Russia has every demand intel on NATO troop movements.

As it is NATO whom is the aggressor agaisnt Russia not the other way around look around you and the current maps of Europe and how many bases NATO has in Europe let alone the black sites.

But believe Russia already knows NATO troop movements, as that article is nothing more then propaganda.

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Which is why Russia has no right to demand intel on NATO troop movements.

Russia has every demand intel on NATO troop movements.

As it is NATO whom is the aggressor agaisnt Russia not the other way around look around you and the current maps of Europe and how many bases NATO has in Europe let alone the black sites.

But believe Russia already knows NATO troop movements, as that article is nothing more then propaganda.

Were you the same guy that claimed Russia could destroy the entire solar system?

DeadSeraph

VirusGuard

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

 

I suppose "Russia Today" is the unbiased source of media I should be getting ALL of my information from? Pot: meet kettle.

edit on 4-4-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)

Indeed you should because it seems to me that you only know half the story and have sucked up all that propaganda and are unable think anything unless you are told.

The stuff they call news in the west if often little more than a nice looking female new readers saying what she thinks (well what she's told to say) or softball questions and answers that have been scripted. Little to no facts let alone any news footage.

You see this is why you think a Commie is hiding under your bed waiting to kill you and maybe if you watched Russia Today, Forced yourself to endure the pain then you might just get a better nights sleep.

Go 50/50 on your pro-west/Pro-Russia news if you want to be in a position to have all the information needed to make an informed decission is all we are saying

You should just do yourself a favor and start reading instead of talking out your ass before your brain has had a chance to fart. You have no idea what you are talking about and no idea what my views on the subject are. Maybe you should figure that out before you go full retard.

well this is very reasonable reply full of facts and information backed arguments and also a true example of denying ignorance.
thank you dear for your contribution.

DeadSeraph
You should just do yourself a favor and start reading instead of talking out your ass before your brain has had a chance to fart. You have no idea what you are talking about and no idea what my views on the subject are. Maybe you should figure that out before you go full retard.

I would like to answer you but I am sure that was I to come down to your level and talk like that then my post would be deleted and I might even get a ban.

DeadSeraph

Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I was not ok with NATO/EU meddling in Ukrainian and Russian affairs. What I am ok with is NATO doing what it was formed to do: Defending Europe.

NATO defending Europe? more like occupying it for 50 years now. The same NATO that aided terrorists in Libya and almost tired the same in Syria.

edit on 4-4-2014 by Agent_USA_Supporter because: (no reason given)

Who exactly are the occupied nations? You realize they are all willing signatories?

Your argument has no merit unless you want to completely disregard all facts on the ground. When we (NATO/West) manufacture a revolution we finance and empower the opposition. If we are successful, than we own and control that opposition as it moves into power. You know client (puppet) states, not unlike we did all through Latin America.

I trust you're aware of this......

Shaiker
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Could it not be argued that the west broke the treaty by illegally overthrowing the legitimate government and planting a western backed puppet and said response by Russia was in defense of Crimea's sovereign right to choose?.

The fear was never about the Crimea voting to join Russia because that was a forgone conclusion and the fear is that too many people in the Ukraine will want to follow suite.

Wages and Pensions went up in the Crimea after they broke away but the IMF has told the Ukraine that "Strings attached" $1bn loan depends on public sector wages being cut by 65%, Pensions cut by 50% and gas prices rise 50%

Russia on the other hand lent the Ukraine $15bn without any visible strings and is also owed about $3b for unpaid gas bills and were supplying gas at a discount.

This so called deal will ensure that people in the Ukraine will riot, it's so obvious and when it does go up you will see those puppet NATO members flooding in to "Protect the people" by saying it's Russia that is courseing these riots and at that stage I hope Russia is ready to carry out this invasion that they are accused of doing months ago in the western media.

You will know we are close if/when the gas pipes get blown up and then it's time to stock up on food supplies just incase