Is this how the US formented the Ukrainian protest movement?

Well it just seems to be the same ole "deny" deny" "deny". Then years later... Oh yeah, dragging that ole thing up, yeah that was us but it was years ago. Now lets forget about the past and more forward

Very "Bay of pigs" like

reply to post by SaturnFX


I must admit that you are at least partially right if not totally right... but I would like to say that if there was no oil or gas in the Ukraine would "ANYONE" be interested at all? I am sure that this fact is in the at least partial thinking of all the major players EU, RussianFED, and the US.

I mean, why has nothing ever been done in Zimbabwe to overthrow that monster?

Reinmax
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

I must admit that you are at least partially right if not totally right... but I would like to say that if there was no oil or gas in the Ukraine would "ANYONE" be interested at all? I am sure that this fact is in the at least partial thinking of all the major players EU, RussianFED, and the US.

I mean, why has nothing ever been done in Zimbabwe to overthrow that monster?

Or Darfur for that matter.

reply to post by SaturnFX

SaturnFX

Bellor
reply to post by Domo1

 

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is.

Are you suggesting that Russia wouldn't have been motivated by getting the oil deal then?
Any thoughts of what he posted?

Im sorry you must have missed what I posted, ill state it again.

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is

Some people I guess can choose to deny the reality of the world they live in, I cant help that but at the same time I will not contribute to the delusional ramblings of a mad man.

reply to post by intrptr

That was a countermove because of what happened in Kiev. Nice try shifting the blame and the thread to Russia, though.

The thread is about US manipulation in the Ukraine.

Well thanks! That's how I makes the monies. I'm well aware what the thread is about. Who had more to gain here though? In my opinion it was Russia.

If we're going to discuss manipulation and foreign involvement I think it's best to look at a number of places. The US has her hands in everything, we know that. The US isn't the only one with a horse in this race though. Global politics aren't black and white.

If I were Russia I would want some of those sweet sweet resources. I would also want to insure I maintained control of the naval base, and didn't have to rent it. Gaining some extra ground, some extra cash and sticking it to the US and EU would be delicious too. Not to mention a few more taxpayers, a few more flag wavers etc.

This is also a pretty good test to determine what action the rest of the world will take in the future. Poke poke poke.

The thread is about US manipulation in the Ukraine. My post was about my disagreement that the US is the one pulling the strings there. That's perfectly on topic, I provided an example of why I think that way. Would you rather I just post "NO!"?

Also OP, it's 'foment'. It was driving me crazy.

I have to have an uneven number of paragraphs. So here's this one. Also, I actually get paid per letter.

reply to post by Reinmax

Very "Bay of pigs" like .

The generation that saw the Bay of Pigs, JFK assassination and Vietnam is fading fast. Newer generations have forgotten the lessons learned.

Good of you to remind people. Its what they need.

Bellor
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

SaturnFX

Bellor
reply to post by Domo1

 

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is.

Are you suggesting that Russia wouldn't have been motivated by getting the oil deal then?
Any thoughts of what he posted?

Im sorry you must have missed what I posted, ill state it again.

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is

Some people I guess can choose to deny the reality of the world they live in, I cant help that but at the same time I will not contribute to the delusional ramblings of a mad man.

edit on 3-4-2014 by Bellor because: (no reason given)

So, just to make sure I am getting you. Your suggesting that
1) the US is responsible for the ukranian revolution..top to bottom, the US did it
2) Russia, although they have been flat out caught in several lies and are now occupying Crimea which will gain them oil rights...they are not at all responsible...for the rebellion involving a desire to not be occupied by Russia...
3) Anyone who disagrees with you is a madman?

I have no issue in the idea that the US pokes its nose in tons of stuff..like any other country, if course it does...but to suggest that Russia isn't involved in this beneficial occupation...and its not even Europe pulling the strings (who it effects moreso than the States), but just the US...
I think I must be missing something, because even for ATS standards, that doesn't sound reasonable...and that's saying something

SaturnFX

minkmouse
My blood pressure has become elevated, so my doctor told me. I said..."Well I'm a member of ATS, what do you expect!" Why the F$^&K can't they just stop with the forced uprisings!!! I don't hate Americans but Damn! The peons you've elected to run the show are beyond the pale of anything worthwhile to the future of this planet or it's people. Before I'm gone, they'll even get Iceland into a freaking revolution! Sorry...I'm venting.

the US runs the world. that simple. We are all kings here.
What ATS has taught me is that there has never ever been a rebellion, revolution, death, fight, or even snide remark without it being the fault of the US Government.

Respect the power...

I think you will find Israel runs the world and that includes your army and its crusades also.

reply to post by Domo1

If I were Russia I would want some of those sweet sweet resources. I would also want to insure I maintained control of the naval base, and didn't have to rent it. Gaining some extra ground, some extra cash and sticking it to the US and EU would be delicious too.

I have some news for you Domo, Russia's Black Sea fleet has occupied Sevastopol since the late 1700's. They just reminded the world of that last month.

In February 1784, Catherine the Great ordered Grigory Potemkin to build a fortress there and call it Sevastopol. The realization of the initial building plans fell to Captain Fyodor Ushakov who in 1788 was named commander of the port and of the Black Sea squadron. It became an important naval base and later a commercial seaport.

Russias Black Sea Fleet

The Germans took it for a while during WWII. See the siege of Sebastapol, WWII.

There is no deeper back yard for Russian Interests.

SaturnFX

Bellor
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

SaturnFX

Bellor
reply to post by Domo1

 

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is.

Are you suggesting that Russia wouldn't have been motivated by getting the oil deal then?
Any thoughts of what he posted?

Im sorry you must have missed what I posted, ill state it again.

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is

Some people I guess can choose to deny the reality of the world they live in, I cant help that but at the same time I will not contribute to the delusional ramblings of a mad man.

edit on 3-4-2014 by Bellor because: (no reason given)

So, just to make sure I am getting you. Your suggesting that
1) the US is responsible for the ukranian revolution..top to bottom, the US did it
2) Russia, although they have been flat out caught in several lies and are now occupying Crimea which will gain them oil rights...they are not at all responsible...for the rebellion involving a desire to not be occupied by Russia...
3) Anyone who disagrees with you is a madman?

I have no issue in the idea that the US pokes its nose in tons of stuff..like any other country, if course it does...but to suggest that Russia isn't involved in this beneficial occupation...and its not even Europe pulling the strings (who it effects moreso than the States), but just the US...
I think I must be missing something, because even for ATS standards, that doesn't sound reasonable...and that's saying something

From were I sit and with my limited knowledge I see your point here Saturn but I think somehow we're being played like armies on a risk board by someone.

minkmouse

SaturnFX

Bellor
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

SaturnFX

Bellor
reply to post by Domo1

 

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is.

Are you suggesting that Russia wouldn't have been motivated by getting the oil deal then?
Any thoughts of what he posted?

Im sorry you must have missed what I posted, ill state it again.

The reason it is "popular" to the blame the U.S is on account of the fact the U.S is responsible. Its pretty simple. Spin it anyway you like but thats how it is

Some people I guess can choose to deny the reality of the world they live in, I cant help that but at the same time I will not contribute to the delusional ramblings of a mad man.

edit on 3-4-2014 by Bellor because: (no reason given)

So, just to make sure I am getting you. Your suggesting that
1) the US is responsible for the ukranian revolution..top to bottom, the US did it
2) Russia, although they have been flat out caught in several lies and are now occupying Crimea which will gain them oil rights...they are not at all responsible...for the rebellion involving a desire to not be occupied by Russia...
3) Anyone who disagrees with you is a madman?

I have no issue in the idea that the US pokes its nose in tons of stuff..like any other country, if course it does...but to suggest that Russia isn't involved in this beneficial occupation...and its not even Europe pulling the strings (who it effects moreso than the States), but just the US...
I think I must be missing something, because even for ATS standards, that doesn't sound reasonable...and that's saying something

From were I sit and with my limited knowledge I see your point here Saturn but I think somehow we're being played like armies on a risk board by someone.

edit on 3-4-2014 by minkmouse because: replaced soldiers for armies...I don't fully understand why

Love your analogy "we're being played like armies on a RISK board". That made my day

reply to post by Domo1


Sorry for the Spelling mistake, thats me spelling it as I hear it. Silly me. and thx!

Now thats the question! Who does gain from it? From where I sit it seems almost everyone so far is gaining from it, infact I am struggling to find a loser? that is, a loser yet!

NATO has gained??? NATO now finds it has new relevance, new areas of importance such as Baltic states. It will get more funding and EU countries will spend more on defence and the yanks will probably maintain more assets in eastern EU. NATO's POV thats gotta be a win

Russia has gained??? This is a bit more technical. There is the obvious. Crimea is strategic. Russia no longer has to rent its warm water port and its no secure. It "IS" its only warm water port. Hmmmm OIL yes... but its got lots of oil. Maybe sticking it to the US to show they are still here but ... it will loose in many ways.

Ukraine has gained??? thats POV again. The right have gained power but lost crimea. Ukraine can play the sympathy card and get 30 bill of funding. Gained EU membership... eventually.

The US has gained??? Will another supplier of GAS OIL and another ALLY in Ukraine.

EU has gained??? Once again the EU has gained energy and maybe Ukraine in its fold.


I am waiting for everyone to just tone down the rhetoric and get back to business as usual with Ukraine in the EU fold and Crimea in the Russian fold. After all everyone wants good economies and to make money. Any major war could have unforeseen consequences.

reply to post by Reinmax

Sorry for the Spelling mistake, thats me spelling it as I hear it. Silly me. and thx!

I still facepalm about this story. I thought Carte Blanche was Carpe Launch until a few years ago. No idea why. Carpe diem maybe? Anyway it sounded like I wanted to catapult a fish. Never corrected because I said it right, just spelled it wrong. Also damn't. An ATS member corrected me on that but I still do it on occasion.

reply to post by Reinmax

Now thats the question! Who does gain from it? From where I sit it seems almost everyone so far is gaining from it, infact I am struggling to find a loser? that is, a loser yet!

Well the EU lost out...

The US has gained??? Will another supplier of GAS OIL and another ALLY in Ukraine.

EU has gained??? Once again the EU has gained energy and maybe Ukraine in its fold.

Yeah but since Russia is taking Crimea, the US and EU are losing all that delicious gas... Russia gained... The Ukraine was a gain for the EU only if it was still able to keep Crimea and remain separate from Russia. Now that the rest of Ukraine is on the poo list, it's not a win for the EU or US. Crimea was a huge part of the gain for the West.

reply to post by Domo1


Can I please get some air in me between the total laughing fits!

ETA: Aimed at the fish catapulting deal.

Something else Russia has lost... The Ukraine supplied plenty of military components to Russia. Components that went into Missles, Helo's, airplanes etc. So where does that leave Russia now? Will Ukraine stop supplying these, does the EU now get a possible supplier?

Russia pumped billions into Ukraine to keep it afloat... that is money gone.

I believe only 2B people live in Crimea? 40 in Ukraine?

Going back to OP, the US/NATO has been slowly getting closer to Russian borders for years ... it is all planned. The agreement was that NATO would not expand into previous USSR territory

reply to post by Reinmax


One of the first things the US made sure to get was the Gold ....peace

minkmouse

SaturnFX
If the US is responsible for uniting the people against a government that wants to put a foot on their neck and silence them, then I am all for it.
Seems like a good plan...If its an unpopular movement, the people will stop the dissidence in step with the government.

So how long will it be before some outside force comes in and rescues Americans!

I'm still hoping that Americans will be kicked out of Europe so you will have to wait your turn for any rescue

Bankers are behind all this and are trying to stop financial transactions in Russia and I hope it blows up in their faces, Stop the bankers and you will stop the american lead agression in Europe.

VirusGuard

minkmouse

SaturnFX
If the US is responsible for uniting the people against a government that wants to put a foot on their neck and silence them, then I am all for it.
Seems like a good plan...If its an unpopular movement, the people will stop the dissidence in step with the government.

So how long will it be before some outside force comes in and rescues Americans!

I'm still hoping that Americans will be kicked out of Europe so you will have to wait your turn for any rescue

Bankers are behind all this and are trying to stop financial transactions in Russia and I hope it blows up in their faces, Stop the bankers and you will stop the american lead agression in Europe.

Do you even hear yourself?

"American led agression(sic) in Europe"

Yes because Europe hasn't been able to sort it's own issues out for hundreds of years now, and has been invaded by the infidel american aggressors countless times. Give your head a shake. Only one country mobilized military units into another sovereign nations territory, and that is Russia.

You people scare me. It's like you're itching for a fight you think you can actually win.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Am always amazed at how people deny the hundreds of US bases throughout the EU and former Warsaw pact nations. Missiles, radars, runways, aircraft, tanks, helicopters, mobile missile launchers, troops, etc., etc.

Yes, sorry the US has invaded "Europe and Beyond" in a big way. Nice mind meld attempt though. You post reminds me of Men in Black…

Everyone look this way, thank you annnnnd… (blink)