Report: Shooting at Fort Hood; Multiple Injuries UPDATE2: Four dead, 16 injured...

reply to post by 3shadesofblack

...but the poor folks that live there and can't afford to move are not brave, they are just stuck.

OK. I'll also call the police, city officials and politicians cowards for letting it happen.

I do agree brave and hero are over used in the media.

Strange that young men were forced to go to Vietnam and when they returned were spit on and called killers. Last decade young men signed up for a job to go the middle east and are call heroes. Maybe in some people's eyes being forced to be cannon fodder some how make the person a lesser person.

War is never going to create peace.

3shadesofblack
reply to post by Daedalus

 

Piers is an idiot, I've never liked him, even before the gun issue became popular, but just to clarify, the base DOES have armed security. Armed security is not a very good deterrent. They are uniformed, open carry, and stationed at known locations, so the bad guy either avoids the, or shoots them first. Simple.

What would have improved this situation would be to allow any base personnel to carry their weapons, open or concealed, their choice. When bad guy wants to do harm, it is much more difficult when you can't identify where the toughest resistance lies.

Gunfighting lore from the dawn of firearms proves that threat detection and efficient elimination is the key to winning the gunfight. From the bad guy's perspective, if you can't detect the threats, and you can't eliminate the threats, then you are not going to last long in the gunfight. If random people are armed, then the bad guy's reign will not last very long, and if he is smart, he will choose not to start the fight at all.

Random concealed carry is the deterrent, not armed security.

there's wisdom in that....

i'm not familiar with the security at fort hood...as i stated earlier in the thread, i used to spend a lot of time at picatinny arsenal.....they had armed security at all the entrances, guarding specific buildings, and they had patrols all over the base...that's why i said "don't get lost"...base security will intercept you. i always assumed this was standard for all bases...am i wrong?

i mean, yeah, sure, soldiers should be allowed to carry sidearms, if they choose to...and there should be enough base security to ensure that if things like this happen, they don't get to become this severe..

Idiosonic
reply to post by 3shadesofblack

 

Piers is right and wrong in his tweets
"Shooter was receiving treatment & medication for 'depression, anxiety & other psychiatric complaints'. SO HOW DID HE BUY A GUN?" I agree with this 100%

"Why does this keep happening in our country?' - what many Americans ask about mass shootings. Well, because you do nothing about it."
He is right about that aswell

But. Good guys with guns (soilders) would have helped this case

It's not the guns, it's the drugs. And a good guy (well, woman) with a gun did help. But by the time it happens, it's always too late.

TheTalentedMrBryant
reply to post by Daedalus

 

Thanks friend.

Usually (and quite thankfully) when a tragedy occurs, it is neither in close proximity to me nor does it effect my loved ones. The beauty of the internet is that I can compile information from all kinds of different sources and form an opinion on the issue, like we all do here.

That makes me feel like I'm part of the situation, doesn't it do that to you guys too? I think that's a good thing. Even though we all often dissent on our opinions we feel like we're doing our part to be a part of the solution and we take for granted just how far removed we might actually be from the situation.

And even though I'm certain that none of you mean disrespect to my friend, that's what it felt like when I was reading the posts. Here I am frantically calling my buddy hoping that he'll answer while keyboard warriors are talking about Muslim fanaticism, Barack Obama, etc. etc.

It just made me think about the times that I've speculated or thrown my unwarranted two cents in on an issue while somebody somewhere was DIRECTLY effected by said issue and I didn't even stop for a second to consider how they felt.

sorry you felt that way. if i caused you any offense, or hurt, i offer my apologies...

to answer your question, i can only speak for myself when i say "no, it doesn't make me feel like part of the situation"...i'm nothing more than a spectator, analyzing data, and offering that analysis, and conclusions based on it, to others here for consumption....regardless of how right or wrong any of us may be in that analysis, that's all really any of us are...just observers. in the grand scheme of things, nobody cares what any of us thinks, none of what we say will make a lick of difference in the real world...

reply to post by Daedalus


While it is true that a significant percentage of UK citizens do not understand the right to bear arms, that is often because they have not read the history behind such a statute, or in the case of the USA, an amendment. It is also worth pointing out, that a generalisation, is never worth making. That said, I can understand why one might make this particular one, no matter how flawed the idea is!

really, what weapons are those?
[/quote]
Weapons that can kill say 15 people in half a minute, why do you need that kind of firepower

yes, because all americans are rednecks, and all americans are irresponsible.... -rolls eyes

No, that was not a blanket statement, i was pointing out that uneducated, idiotic, irresponsible rednecks can own arms, but a soldier can't take one to work

soldiers are people, just like the rest of us...respect for the weapon has nothing to do with it, it's ALL training....whether or not you agree with the methodology, you are trained to handle your weapon a certain way, and you're conditioned to do it that way..

Yes, but a solider has better training under pressure and with firearms than most people

Piers Morgan is a pathetic, irrelevant, blowhard, with too much idiotic opinion, nearly no factual information, and absolutely no respect for this country...he should be deported...

That is an opinion

only if the current administration uses the poor dead people to push more illegal restrictions on the rights of the people...

Rights that are rrelevant today. Are you a member of a well reguleated militia? Yes? then go grab your musket and defend your state

just because you don't see it, doesn't mean nothing's happened

All i see is the blood, blood of the victims of mass shootings that don't stop

this really is all off-topic....maybe you should start a new thread, to bash firearms and their owners....i'd be happy to debate you there

I just might

actually, we're not laughed at...we're mostly hated....and that's mostly because our government is a bunch of assholes, who think it's their purpose in life to meddle in the affairs of other countries, instead of taking proper care of their own

I agree, also a little laughed at

As the great American poet Eminem once said: "This whole world is a mess, gotta have a goddamn Vest on your chest and a Glock just to go watch Batman" Why should we?

Idiosonic nothing will happen until the next shooting when you just repeat the debate and once again nothing happens.

1000% correct.

NickDC202

neo96

NickDC202

neo96
reply to post by NickDC202

 

I'm sorry it is still to early to pin it on the jihadists.

Way to earlier to tell.

It is from here: www.heavy.com...

Fox also said that Booker and the Fort Hood shooting was NOT related.

Some pages back that was posted.

The shooter was ID'd here as Muhammad Abdella Hasan

edit on 4/2/2014 by NickDC202 because: (no reason given)

It's unbelievable how quickly they solve cases these days, giving out the names of suspects. back in the day it took time to get this information out to the public.
I don't think it has anything to do with the speed of the internet.

TrueBrit
reply to post by Daedalus

 

While it is true that a significant percentage of UK citizens do not understand the right to bear arms, that is often because they have not read the history behind such a statute, or in the case of the USA, an amendment. It is also worth pointing out, that a generalisation, is never worth making. That said, I can understand why one might make this particular one, no matter how flawed the idea is!

cool, so no hard feelings then?

reply to post by Daedalus


Good God no!

None what so ever. Carry on!

Idiosonic

this really is all off-topic....maybe you should start a new thread, to bash firearms and their owners....i'd be happy to debate you there..

I just might

you should, and you should use this post as the opener......gods, i wanna reply so bad....but i don't wanna derail the thread, or take the time to write up a reply, just to have the mods make it go *poof*

do the thread.... DOOOO EEEEEEET!

This is the most comprehensive reporting that I have found:

PICTURED: The gunman 'being assessed for PTSD' who opened fire at Fort Hood injuring 16 and killing three before turning the gun on himself

Ivan Lopez has been identified as the shooter who brought terror to the Texas army base on Wednesday afternoon

Lopez, a 34-year-old married father, had served one tour in Iraq in 2011 but did he did not have any recorded combat experience

He started shooting from inside the medical building where he was seeking treatment for 'self-reported' brain injuries

Reportedly suffered from anxiety, depression and post traumatic stress disorder but had not been formally diagnosed at the time of the shooting

Killed three others and injured 16 people, some of whom are in critical condition

I don't buy into the heavy metal band connection, but the psychotropic drug angle may have merit.

reply to post by Daedalus



I cant create a new topic. IDK why, can you do it Then we can have a "civil" debate

reply to post by Idiosonic


You need one more post...

On topic:

Let's not lose sight of the fact that Ivan Lopez was a 34 year old married father of two... He doesn't fit the profile for this type of action, save the introduction of pharmaceutical treatment for his self reported condition.

reply to post by Mirthful Me


I know the initial reports are often erred. BUT, if he shot this many people with a model 1911 handgun from inside the building. What did the folks in the surrounding neighborhood hear? If they had someone immediately in custody, but still had a manhunt ongoing for the "other" shooter, then who was the person in custody? Something almost identical happened at Newtown with a suspect arrested outside the school, up until the shooter was dead, and then the original suspect was just poofed out of existence.

And when people lose their mind in a medical office like this, even if they are totally psychotic, they typically target folks they consider responsible for their situation. Columbine is an example of that. If he was PTSD, and he couldn't get the treatment he expected, and he couldn't get the drugs he expected, then he should have been targeting specific individuals, and the casualty count should have never gotten this high.

In all these recent shootings, the final story never matches the facts of the case or the original reports. A certain amount of that can be expected, but when all of the mistakes and errors start to have similarities, then you have to start to wonder about the entire event.

This is a bit of a red flag:

Lopez spent nine years in the Puerto Rico National Guard before going on active duty with a one-year deployment on the Sinai Peninsula and four months in Iraq, said Army Chief of Staff Raymond Odierno.

Fort Hood gunman Ivan Lopez was devastated by mother's death: report

Nine years in the Guard, and another year and a half active duty and he was only an E-4?

That's not a glowing career...

This may indicate a rather sad life...

3shadesofblack

I know the initial reports are often erred. BUT, if he shot this many people with a model 1911 handgun from inside the building.

I would bet it wasn't a 1911... It was most likely a S&W striker fired pistol, the M&P, which is half the price, and has a 10+1 capacity.

Idiosonic
reply to post by Daedalus

 

I cant create a new topic. IDK why, can you do it

Then we can have a "civil" debate

there, now you have enough posts....DOOOOO EEEEET!

He was prescribed Ambien. It tires you out or maybe a blackout but not like something that would cause a mood swing to do this. See some crazy stuff if you are up to long but not sure about shooting almost 20 people.

The part I just do not get is the reports that are coming out that he had an issue with someone on base and he had been there for such a short time. The mother angle and he also lost his grandmother a few months back.

Maybe he was just a loony bastard but he had a lot to lose with the wife and kids. If someone is in this situation, and you are going to kill yourself anyways and do not want help, drive out in the desert and eat the barrel. May sound harsh but it would have saved the lives of those innocent soldiers.

reply to post by Mirthful Me


Still not something folks would hear outside the building, or hear noticeably from a surrounding neighborhood during daytime traffic and noise.

Also requires reloading for the casualty count, so extra magazines, premeditation, which isn't a psychotic episode, but a planned attack.

His profile is slowly building to make the story more and more credible, but that in and of itself is suspicious. Probably just another nut who happened to be at the same base as the last nut, and happened to be Muslim, and happened to be on medication, and happened to have sought out help ahead of time, and happened to have 2 dozen victims who couldn't escape even while he reloaded. These psychos seem to be very steady handed and efficient shooters. Seems odd for a guy with PTSD.