The truth about Obamacare Approval rating

reply to post by Daedalus


The only two options there are the gov. setting prices or raising min wage.

You can't just think lowering taxes deregulation would do it! Why would they corporations and such lower prices if they were taxed less? They already know you will pay what your paying now.

IMHO trusting the big buisness community to choose what's right over what's profitable is what's screwed us now..... Especially in our political system!

reply to post by Daedalus


I fundamentally disagree about the poor not" wanting" too enough. The conservative side has one thing right it's about oppertunity. But that doesn't mean states competing with each other to see who will let you pay your people the least. ( right to work)

I think givin an "in your face" opportunity to just live decent about 98% of the public are on board with working. Real life jobs are out there but there aren't enough for everyone. even in a perfect world where everyone strived and found there perfect job. But right now the poor are staring at flipping burgers... Not at all an easy job. For about half what it cost to survive....and for no guarentee you'll be alright for doing it. Just the vague chance maybe it'll all work out.

reply to post by Daedalus


Nor can you think let the regular citizens kill the worthless (which I think all agree there are. just going with the laziest of the lazy, or the socially inept, or the slightly mentally disabled. [your crazy uncle frank who can't hold down a job! :p] ) who steal because they are hungry and don't have family or friends.


That's not a real life fix.

Just because you provide the very bottom rung. doesn't mean you take away all incentive to achieve and move up. Full blown socialism would.... But as long as people can be better then others. Some will strive to do so. We've been past the tech lvl where what we should and shouldn't have to pay for should be our primary driving force.

reply to post by Daedalus


Ps before we drop off here. It's been fun debating you amigo.

Published April 06, 2014

Axelrod admits Dems have 'major hurdles,' after new poll

Former top Obama campaign strategist David Axelrod acknowledged Saturday that Democrats face tough challenges in November, following a new Associated Press-GfK poll that shows voters increasingly appear to want Republicans over Democrats to control Congress.

"Every bit of evidence points to stronger GOP turnout in a low turnout elections this fall. Major hurdle for Ds," Axelrod tweeted after the poll was released Saturday.

ArtemisE
The only two options there are the gov. setting prices or raising min wage.

You can't just think lowering taxes deregulation would do it! Why would they corporations and such lower prices if they were taxed less? They already know you will pay what your paying now.

IMHO trusting the big buisness community to choose what's right over what's profitable is what's screwed us now..... Especially in our political system!

well, i agree that looking to the government to fix the problem is the wrong move...it's not the role of the federal government to fix prices on goods, because that artificially and unfairly limits a company.....

and if the federal government raises minimum, then two things will happen...companies will say "well, they have more money now, so we can charge more, because they can afford it", AND because companies now hafta pay even their lowest-paid people more money, they're gonna raise the prices anyway, because they(the people at the top of the company) don't feel they should hafta lose a single cent off their idiotically huge bonuses.....so even though raising minimum might be done in an attempt to genuinely help the people, all it will do is act as a profit increase to the corporations....for all the good it would do in the real world, they'd be better off just writing the corporations a check...

the ONLY way to get companies to lower their prices, is to starve them financially...buy store brand, and whatnot.....people won't do that, because they're obsessed with brand-names, and because most people see buying generic store-brand stuff as a declaration that they're weak, or poor, or somehow less....regardless of the savings...that's a mental hangup..

ArtemisE
I fundamentally disagree about the poor not" wanting" too enough. The conservative side has one thing right it's about oppertunity. But that doesn't mean states competing with each other to see who will let you pay your people the least. ( right to work)

I think givin an "in your face" opportunity to just live decent about 98% of the public are on board with working. Real life jobs are out there but there aren't enough for everyone. even in a perfect world where everyone strived and found there perfect job. But right now the poor are staring at flipping burgers... Not at all an easy job. For about half what it cost to survive....and for no guarentee you'll be alright for doing it. Just the vague chance maybe it'll all work out.

i'm not talking about poor though...i'm talking about homeless, destitute, no job, no address, nothing.....some people are perfectly happy living like that(not my cup of tea, but whatever)..outside the system. for them, they could be staring opportunity in the face, and still ignore it, because it would mean submitting to the control of the system.... -shrug-

ArtemisE
Nor can you think let the regular citizens kill the worthless (which I think all agree there are. just going with the laziest of the lazy, or the socially inept, or the slightly mentally disabled. [your crazy uncle frank who can't hold down a job! :p] ) who steal because they are hungry and don't have family or friends.

why not? one's willingness to take the easy way out, and resort to crime as a means to achieve one's ends, speaks volumes to that person's character...crime is the preferred option of the morally bankrupt. those who would seek to take from others, that which they do not desire to EARN for themselves, deserve no quarter..

That's not a real life fix.

i disagree, it is the natural order of things.....if a homeless guy tries to rob me with a knife, or broken bottle, or whatever, and i kill him in self-defense, that's one less criminal running around, and who knows how many other potential victims saved...

Just because you provide the very bottom rung. doesn't mean you take away all incentive to achieve and move up. Full blown socialism would.... But as long as people can be better then others. Some will strive to do so. We've been past the tech lvl where what we should and shouldn't have to pay for should be our primary driving force.

i'll assume you meant to write "Just because you provide FOR the very bottom rung"

i disagree.....the very bottom rung is usually made up of lazy people who don't WANT to work....and as long as the government continues to pay them to do nothing, and they can have what they want without earning it, what incentive exists to go get a job, and earn an honest living? tell me you wouldn't rather sit on your ass, and engage in hobbies and frivolities all day, instead of going out and dealing with all the bulls**t of having a job...

sure, there are people who want to be the best, or are wired in such a way that they can't imagine NOT working for what they have...but that's becoming increasingly rare, as we become a society completely composed of lazy, poorly informed, slackers, with their heads up their own asses, and an overblown sense of entitlement...

and as to the tech level thing....if a product, say a everyday item...like maybe a popular food item.....if that item can be manufactured entirely by machines, in a factory with only a handfull of employees, and you can crank out that item for a dollar a piece, why should we need to pay 8 dollars for it? the answer is "greed". they could charge 4 dollars for it, and still make a good profit....but companies are not looking for a good profit...they're looking for excessive profit..greed is the problem and that can't be solved by government, without it becoming a dictatorship, or some kind of communist s**thole....

ArtemisE
Ps before we drop off here. It's been fun debating you amigo.

i, too, have enjoyed this quite a bit.....i initially thought you were a jerkoff, but you're actually pretty bright, and personable...

reply to post by Daedalus


I disagree with your assessment that givin an oppertunity most homeless and poor wouldn't work.... If that work came with a guarentee to live at just a regular lives... Plus your not offering any fix. We agree that the free market won't cut it. You because people are too stupid to care. Me for That reason and the fact some don't have the income to shop around, or pay more for the principle of it.

IMHO that's what government is for, that's what it's always been for. To provide a safe, fair as possible society. I'm not against capitalism. I'm against the way capitalism has been perverted into the greed first mentality we see now. A buisness owner should be imporoving society while making money... Not make money at the expense of society. What we both agree, I think we have now. ...... Plus just as a fact. It's capitalism that's the experiment. We did socialism for the greatest amount of human history. Obviously we've made way more progress under capitalism. But the claim that socialism has always failed is false. Native Americans lived socialist lives and did just fine till we showed up. As did every other civilization pre the Industrial Age.

Most conservatives I talk to on here are nuthing but talking points.... The only logic to there argument is " I shouldn't have to pay for that" or "that's not gov.s place ". Which are not attempts to fix any problem. To me it's a cop out. They want things to stay the same. So they come up with bs talking points to distract the sheeple. I think in most cases politicians are profiting off there inaction thru lobbyists . Dem or GOP.

reply to post by Daedalus


Kinda like they go after unions. The concept of a workers union isn't corrupt by nature. Sure, you can point to corruption amongst union leaders. But since the GOP is in the pocket of big buisness. All unions are evil entities set on destroying America. Same with liberals or atheists. Libs don't think the GOP is evil... Just bought and paid for by greedy people. All the talking points about rich being discriminated against are nuts. The rich are nearly untouchable in our society. I don't know how they ever convinced there base of such nonsense.

ArtemisE
things and stuff

i like our conversation, but you're making it difficult...

it would be nice if you quoted me in replies, so i can see what you're replying to, and it would be great if you could make all your points in a single post, instead of making multiple replies to the same post....it's really annoying having to do all this legwork, just to be able to reply to you.

ArtemisE
I disagree with your assessment that givin an oppertunity most homeless and poor wouldn't work.... If that work came with a guarentee to live at just a regular lives... Plus your not offering any fix. We agree that the free market won't cut it. You because people are too stupid to care. Me for That reason and the fact some don't have the income to shop around, or pay more for the principle of it.

whether you agree or not, it's a real thing....i can't imagine NOT working for what i have, i don't WANT government handouts, i can imagine living on the street, without all the things i have become accustomed to..but if i can avoid that, i will...and in the strongest way possible. but for some people, it's ok...and if they're happy, then whatever, it's their right...

i don't know that it's necessarily something that NEEDS a fix....if people are happy living that way, who are we to tell them it's wrong? as long as they're not hurting anyone, and it's not costing us anything, why not just leave them alone?

anyway, if there were to be a fix, not that this is the government's job, mind you.....i've had this idea kicking around for a while...

originally, i intended it to be a way to avoid having all these returning vets being discharged into homelessness, because there were no jobs for them....but it works just as easily for the homeless(who are interested), and the unemployed...

you set up a government program to fix up the national highway system, and other federal public works projects....you grab up all these people(no illegals though), you house them, feed them, clothe them, see to their medical needs, train them, pay them, and you put them to work....we fix up our ruined roadways, and other things, and these people get a job, some money, medical services, clean clothes on their back, a rack to sleep in, and experience they can take with them....everybody wins.....

IMHO that's what government is for, that's what it's always been for. To provide a safe, fair as possible society. I'm not against capitalism. I'm against the way capitalism has been perverted into the greed first mentality we see now. A buisness owner should be imporoving society while making money... Not make money at the expense of society. What we both agree, I think we have now. ...... Plus just as a fact. It's capitalism that's the experiment. We did socialism for the greatest amount of human history. Obviously we've made way more progress under capitalism. But the claim that socialism has always failed is false. Native Americans lived socialist lives and did just fine till we showed up. As did every other civilization pre the Industrial Age.

your honest opinion is based on misinformation.....the government's responsibilities are to protect the rights of the people, and act as their avatar/representative on the global stage...

and natives did not live socialist lifestyles...they lived communal (not communist) lifestyles...there's a difference.

socialism/communism ALWAYS fails, because people NEED to be free...those systems of government are antithetical to true liberty...

Most conservatives I talk to on here are nuthing but talking points.... The only logic to there argument is " I shouldn't have to pay for that" or "that's not gov.s place ". Which are not attempts to fix any problem. To me it's a cop out. They want things to stay the same. So they come up with bs talking points to distract the sheeple. I think in most cases politicians are profiting off there inaction thru lobbyists . Dem or GOP.

well, i don't know wtf constitutes a "conservative" anymore, as the definitions for labels like "conservative", and "liberal" are almost completely opposite of everything that common sense, reason, and command of the english language would tell you they are...

however....if something is unreasonable, and it will cost you money you might not have, why should you have to pay for it?

and if the federal government is doing something that it has no constitutional authority to do, then it isn't their place...

these are not cop-outs, if they are statements of fact.

one doesn't always need to suggest a "fix" for something, to point out that it's wrong...

ArtemisE
Kinda like they go after unions. The concept of a workers union isn't corrupt by nature. Sure, you can point to corruption amongst union leaders. But since the GOP is in the pocket of big buisness. All unions are evil entities set on destroying America. Same with liberals or atheists. Libs don't think the GOP is evil... Just bought and paid for by greedy people. All the talking points about rich being discriminated against are nuts. The rich are nearly untouchable in our society. I don't know how they ever convinced there base of such nonsense.

the kind of rich people who are easily given to fantasies that they are being persecuted because of their wealth, are usually already completely out of touch with reality to begin with....this is one of the many reasons we have so many problems as a nation....because we keep allowing these people to serve in government..

they're out of touch, therefore, their policies, and ideas on how to run things are out of touch as well....and the end result of that is what we're seeing now....the culmination of decades of destructive policies, and idiotic agendas, conceived by people that are completely out of touch with reality...

the "ACA" is a very good example of this..

you know, i actually crunched the numbers on ACA vs NHS, and it was quite interesting....if you'd like to discuss it, i think you might find it interesting as well....if i'm right, it's kinda awful...

This I can promise you...

The Republicans will make significant gains in both houses of Congress come November, 2014 - essentially making President Obama a lame-duck president - with two full years left in his term.

Democrats rejected The National Healthcare Act for only one reason - because President Bush was in office at the time.

reply to post by Daedalus


Socialism and communism isn't the same thing. Communism refers to the leadership . Socialism is communal living, which I don't think is the best way to make advancements in society. Every time communism has been tried it's failed..... In socialism all property is owned by the community. Communism all property is owned by the state. Idk monachys were far closer to communism then democracy and they were our bread and butter for millinia. Just pointing out that capitalism is the experiment. A sucessful one untitled the last 60 years or so, when the big corporations took over.


I just don't think some things work well " for profit". Public education, justice system, the government, police and fire, and health care. I think the doctors and hospital admins get payed. But no insurance profits. No hospital profits. No Parma company profits. Only those full filling a need would get payed in those industries. No shareholders allowed lol.



I think as society and tech has advanced, we've learned how to fix more and more issues. So why wouldn't we.

I'm results oriented. I don't care who should have to pay for it. I care what the best out come is. I'm ice cold logic with no ideology. What's the best for all involved? Do we have the tech, labor, and materials to do that? Should and shouldn't are trumped by the greater good. Now not thinking left policy will work is fair, but knowing "x" will help/fix the problem and not doing it because " I shouldn't have to" is just lazy and selfish. That's how the GOP looks when they blast attemps to fix problems while offering none themselves.

reply to post by ArtemisE


i'm sorry, but i can't reply to this...

i already posted that i need to know what you're replying to, before i can continue...you've become very abstract in your replies, and it's becoming increasingly difficult to discern exactly what point you are replying to, and i'm not going to spend all kinds of time researching what you might be talking about...

if you can't quote what you're replying to, i'm afraid i'm going to hafta be done with this conversation.

reply to post by Daedalus


Sorry, on my phone so makes it a little harder to quote then on a desk top.

I definatly appriciate the conversation.

ArtemisE
reply to post by Daedalus

 

Sorry, on my phone so makes it a little harder to quote then on a desk top.

I definatly appriciate the conversation.

no worries. the next time you're on a desktop, if you wanna reformat the reply, with quotes, maybe a mod can edit the post for you..

i'm definately not trying to cop-out on you, it's just getting harder and harder to follow you...

reply to post by Daedalus


Fair enough... I rarely proof read. And have a tendency to rant lol.

reply to post by ArtemisE

In my opinion the insurance companies are the real problem.

In my opinion the ACA is nothing more than an Insurance Company bailout. They are going to make HUGE profits.
They were looking for a way to keep from going bankrupt with all of the Baby boomers leaving the work force, getting older and having more health issues. They turned to the government and now we have the ACA.
Quad

reply to post by Quadrivium


Agreed! And because the last thing the Obama administration will want is 10,000 dr comming out claiming there not getting paid... I bet fraud will be rampant, and I'm a lib!

reply to post by Quadrivium


Agreed! And because the last thing the Obama administration will want is 10,000 dr comming out claiming there not getting paid... I bet fraud will be rampant, and I'm a lib!