Judge Rules Living Off the Grid to be Illegal

crazyewok
Congratulations

You win the the missing the point of the post award!

His point was simple.....,.you boost about all your guns to protect you from tyranny...,,,so why do you basically have a tyranny? Why haven't you used your guns?

Or you just deflecting in a lame excuse to hide your own inaction too?

What you three are doing is playing the card of the anarchists. Trying to use a situation for your own advantage. What, you want to start a civil war? What's the rush on your part and the other three members, if not more?

People need to start thinking with the muscle that matters, the brain, and not let their other muscle do the thinking for them.

You have no idea of who I am, or what I have done. None whatsoever. Violence does not help anyone, and should be a last resort when you have to defend your family and yourself.

There is still time for people to talk to their representatives, and make them work for the people.

In case you three haven't noticed there have been people who have been protesting these draconian moves. Some battles were won, some were lost, but what people can't do is lose hope and do something irrational which would cause the unfortunate death of good people.

The Second Amendment is a right that must be protected, just like every other right. But again, people need to use the gray matter they were born with.

The elites know that the situation is bad. They seem desperate and want to start exactly what the three of you want. If you use violence you will not only have the government against you, but many good people will also be against you while others could be harmed. Violence is only a last resort for defending your love ones and self defense.

We don't need a civil war. We need to force politicians to work for the people. Send them letters, and send them again, and again. Not by using threats, but by letting them know the people will not back down.

What we need is more regular people to be in our side, and by using violence you will lose those people, millions of them. Unless you three work for the government and that is what you are trying to entice on others in here. Which I doubt but it's possible that you three are trying to entice violence for your own ends.

People need to be calm, but at the same time taking the "right actions", which means PEACEFUL protests, to inform others of what is happening, and demand politicians to start working for the people and not for "the company" aka the Federal Reserve.

reply to post by pirhanna


So if we don't breathe, crap, eat and sleep in the fashion "They" have so graciously provided it's illegal???

World War Three does not seem like a bad idea. After all, better to die on your feet than live on your knees!

The state is correct here.
If you are going to “live off the grid”, then you must be truly “off the grid”, not still using city services without paying for them. What she did was to continue to use the sewer system without paying for that right. It costs money to maintain that system and to treat the waste water, you cannot dig a well (or collect rain water), then continue to use the sewers and not pay for water treatment. If you want to be “off the grid” then you have to dig a well AND install your own septic system which is not connected to the sewer system. Additionally in some places the cost of waste pick-up (your trash service) is included in the same bill, so in that case you would also have to dispose of your own waste and not be using that service either.

What she was doing was technically utility theft, and she is getting off lightly here.
There is nothing in this ruling that says you cannot “live off the grid”, simply you cannot bypass paying for utilities you are still using, in this case the sewers.

PS, as a resident of Florida my sewer usage bill is way HIGHER then my water bill. I live alone and use very little water, usually only a couple of bucks worth a month. I still have at least a $40 bill, with over half of that bill being sewer use/water treatment charges. Also if I add water to my pool, I have to pay sewer use for all the water that goes into the pool, even though it never goes into the sewer. As the sewer is not metered, they base the bill on the metered of the amount of water delivered.

reply to post by pirhanna


Welcome to the land of the free home of the brave, I watch as they slowly chip away at our rights and freedoms.

reply to post by markosity1973


Very eye opening post, Mark, common sense.

recall my grandmother only washed her hair with the rain water barrel and my father used it to cool the plow-shears off, but he swore that barrel had healing properties.

Back in that day they were allowed chickens and rabbits a few had goats in the city limits, they had horses of course and could fish without a license, OH well

The human race is OLDER than this hilarious law... Humans were "living off the grid" CENTURY AFTER CENTURY, AFTER CENTURY, AFTER CENTURY... up until THIS century -- where rain water is now deemed "illegal" to consume, by the government court jesters that be! DURR, I wonder where we got our water from since the dawn of time??? NOT FROM A GOVERNMENT, or some government law! WE GOT OUR WATER FROM MOTHER NATURE HERSELF. Yeah, but that's NOW EVIDENTLY "ILLEGAL," SO...

reply to post by Kromlech


Yes indeed ... but that was before zoning laws were applicable ... now that things are zoned there is room for everything and everyone.

This lady isn't in the right zone for her actions to be considered lawful and legal.

Municipal services are not free and are covered generally by annual land and water rates and she has failed to pay her way with the water/sewer rates whilst still using the latrine and showers and sinks to dispose of waste water and this action makes her culpable to pay those rates in full and stop tying up court with frivolous legal cases.

IMO she has a legal case to answer and bills and possibly a fine to pay [court costs etc.]

However the Ogre of inescapable Annual Land Rates/tax ... does rear its ugly head and its nasty gaze should remind us all that unless you can own truly 'free hold' land without the threat from society impeding that liberty and pursuit of happiness by heftily applying a financial burden upon just living and occupying space ... shows us that we are not free at all ... and if one owns land that civilization expects you to turn a profitable dollar from that and they want their slice of the pie and if you don't want to play local council politics then one can simple GTFO and find another county/country.

The solution of course is to go join the local council and advocate for cheaper land and water rates and do with less municipal services and rely on mother nature a whole lot more to do the providing.

It is the same with banks ... buy enough shares to getting a vote at the companies annual general meeting and this hedges ones bets when dealing with the banks.

Have to get involved to actually get off the grid!

I read a lot of the posts here on this thread and have come to the conclusion, possibly in error, but it appears many of you are afraid of those who live differently than yourselves without saying it outright.

The woman in the OP really should have been more discreet about not needing the established structure to survive, considering the established structure thrives by convincing the masses who feed it they are thriving when they are in truth merely treading water....

As with many other issues in this world today, it is all a matter of faith and it is becoming more difficult to maintain faith in a falsehood as people find more information more easily accessible through the internet and so on....

Now if only more people learned what a raging heap of excrement this entire faith based system really is, would use the technology available presently to learn something useful instead of treat it like a toy and text constantly about nothing of consequence and play Angry Birds and other useless crap....

Maybe come to some realizations before they are half a century old and don't have the energy to resist anymore....Or maybe simply don't really care....

I don't know for sure, but it seems like we are stuck in a rut, and if we are not careful we may be out-evolved by a species that isn't stuck like we are, like maybe a virus....

What will they think of next, Im using solar panels, Battery banks, Windmills, but I also buy city water, sanitation, keep my grass cut, and dont call attention to myself.

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

This, my friends, is what living in cities is. You are trading your liberty for the convenience of government. I am not saying that you are right or wrong here...only that the folks who are decrying this trampling of liberty need to understand: municipal codes are, presumptively, the epitome of self governance. Councils are elected of and by the people to make legislative decisions for their communities. If you are not fond of the municipal codes, you should leave. Because it is the your neighbors right to build the community they want. Yes...it is mob rule. BUt it is not unconstitutional.

I get why folks stay in the cities. Even though you are being disarmed, and your protection guaranteed by a police force full of turtles, I get why you prefer your cities. You don't have to worry about your septic, you have convenience, so on and so forth. I get it. But if you want to live off the grid....a city isn't where you do it. If you think about it even a little bit, you will see that "off the grid" living is anathema to city living, and it is ludicrous to even try. Unless your city is comprised of other folks who wish to build an "off the grid" community via municipal codes. But then we would have teeth gnashing because of someone wanting to wire their house into the local electrical grid being fined and evicted. LOL

JHumm
reply to post by pirhanna

 

If you show any sign that you don't need the government, they get scared that more people will follow and they will lose more power over the rest of the people .It scares them to think that people can and will be able to make it without the help of the government. It is all just a big power grab designed to push others into submission.

I'd say the only ones that get really scared by people living off the grid are the corporations, since they need customers. Just imagine what would happen if people suddenly start to think and realize that they don't need 60 sorts of TVs, 50 sorts of shampoo and 40 sorts of jelly since they are all pretty much the same anyway?

The government doesn't need the citizens that badly to run, since it is a bit like a perpetuum mobile orbiting around itself, so to say. The only exception would be the regular circus, erh voting. So if it makes laws against living off the grid, I guess it is mostly on behalf of its true masters.

This is just another example of why the 2nd amendment will eventually be necessary, although I don't mean to change the subject. People think that here in America they have freedoms and rights, but many have yet to learn that they only have those rights when they are not running afoul of the government, whether on a local, state, or federal level. There have been countless examples of such government overreach, and it needs to stop, because it goes against the very fabric of belief this country was founded on, as well as against our rights as citizens.

Whether one realizes it or not we are being "conformed," or "transformed." We are being made to be dependent upon a system, and this is how such a thing could eventually turn out...the people will be so dependent on the system that overthrowing it becomes an impossibility, and once that option is no longer there, the government has to fear no reprisals from the people. Many people probably don't think that our owning firearms at the moment is keeping the government in check to any degree, but it probably is. We have been shown that the government has no problem running over the rights of a citizen, and they do not fear any potential backlash, so what will happen when the citizens have no recourse at all, except through "legal" channels and useless protests?

When your only recourse is to beg and plead, does one really think that the people who were evil enough to negate your rights in the first place will suddenly have a change of heart? What I want to know is WHY laws such as these are created in the first place. I am not convinced that it is some giant conspiracy that spreads nationwide, as I would think such a large conspiracy would originate in the federal government, and trickle down from there. But it could be a local conspiracy. I think the question to ask is who is making money by forcing people to hook up to the main grid, and then look at their connections to judges and politicians.

Stormdancer777
reply to post by markosity1973

 

Very eye opening post, Mark, common sense.

recall my grandmother only washed her hair with the rain water barrel and my father used it to cool the plow-shears off, but he swore that barrel had healing properties.

Let me put it out there that I am all for collecting and using rainwater. But only for doing what your grandparents did with it or watering your garden with. When it comes to being used for drinking and cooking however, you have to be super careful.

I now live in a city and we still collect rainwater for the garden. I drink the town supply water, but I use a cheap filter jug that I keep in the fridge to take our all the nasties that are put in to it.

As for your gramps water having healing properties, it might not be as much of a myth as it sounds. The river Ganges in India, one of the world's most horrifically polluted rivers actually posesses bacteriophages in the water that attack bacteria and kills them. The water from this river actually heals wounds etc. (Caveat; only for the locals whom have a natural resistance to all the other nasties in the water) So it is not entirely impossible that if the barrel you speak of were wooden that there was some kind of bacteriophage in it that was indeed healing. I still wouldn't have drunk the water though.

Back in that day they were allowed chickens and rabbits a few had goats in the city limits, they had horses of course and could fish without a license, OH well

It seems sad now that such things are not allowed any more and as harsh as this sounds, rules have changed because there are just so many people around nowadays compared to back then.

Chickens and rabbits can spread diseases like salmonella and bird flu is now bit of a danger. Once again, high density living means that these animals are a danger to the collective neighbourhood they are in. Goats are no real problem, but you'd get some idiot wanting to keep one in a 25th floor apartment, so they have to outlaw them for everyone. A lot of laws come into place because of the stupid few that ruin it for everyone.

The only real reason that fishing requires a license now is that yet again there are too many of us. If we all went and fished the river for our dinner every night, the river's fish stocks would be decimated in a very short time. The same goes with the ocean, you only need to look at countries like India that sit on the Indian Ocean to see what overfishing does. Their catches now are nothing but juvenile fish and even these fish are dwindling in numbers every year.

reply to post by pirhanna


Seems " LIFE , LIBERTY , And the Persute Of Happiness " in the Bill Of Rights Trumps this Illegal Court Represenatives Opinion . He should be Prosecuted for Breaking the Law himself !

_Del_
reply to post by pirhanna

 

I'm all for living off the grid. I just don't think you should be able to use your toilets and shower and then tell the city you're not going to pay the bill which apparently was multiple thousand dollars (I don't know how much your water bill is, but that's a lot of water - so she's either lying about not using it for anything other than the toilet and shower, or she's been using it for a very long time). And when the city comes to you with the intention of making suggestions to keep your home code-compliant, and you remain defiant, then I think you're setting yourself up for failure. That's when the case went to court.
I don't really care if she's using rainwater or not. I'm not sure the judge should either, and I imagine there is some legal grey area at play. The principle is that she used thousands of dollars of city water/services and then told them she had no intention of paying for it. In light of her checkered past as a broker taking $35,000 from clients, I find it hard to find sympathy for her. She's not living off the grid; she's living off other taxpayers.

edit on 31-3-2014 by _Del_ because: (no reason given)

So.....


Do you actually think there is a turd-o-meter in the pipes leading from your house to the sewers???

There is no such thing. Sewer bills are based on water usage, (which is a major issue because not all the water you use in your home goes back down the sewers. Think sprinklers, cooking, cleaning floors, washing cars, etc.)

They are trying to bill her for sewer usage without actually metering it, plus sewers should really be a municipal service covered by property tax anyway.

voices.yahoo.com...

reply to post by 8675309jenny


Water treatment costs big money. Unless her poop was magic, it had to be treated just like the rest of it. Sewers are not covered by your property tax, and she has a water bill in the "multiple thousands". How much was your water bill? Do you know how much water that is?

reply to post by pirhanna


I think this may become more common as cities around the country are starving for tax dollars. Soon I fear they will tax everything in your home.

_Del_
reply to post by 8675309jenny

 

Water treatment costs big money. Unless her poop was magic, it had to be treated just like the rest of it. Sewers are not covered by your property tax, and she has a water bill in the "multiple thousands". How much was your water bill? Do you know how much water that is?

Ahh, well fairplay if she had an outstanding water bill already. Pay the damn thing, then go off grid.

reply to post by 8675309jenny


"Ahh, well fairplay if she had an outstanding water bill already. Pay the damn thing, then go off grid."

Why pay it when she is off the grid? It not her debt anymore, let the banker scum sort out their own crap, after all the lady is simply trying to walk away and reject "There" form of control!

Its "There" money not ours!

For those not reading, she was not “off the grid”, she was still using the sewers and water treatment facilities. If she had legally installed a septic tank and drainage field, then there would have been no issue here.