Worshipping Satan?

DeadSeraph

TKDRL
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

I wasn't calling you a crazy christian..... I am sure you have met the type I am talking about. They are a fringe minority, same as people that actually bow to satan as a god..... Holding up all the bands playing a role on stage, to try and make the case that theistic satanism is somehow widespread is dumb is the point. They are performing on a stage, putting on a show.

I wouldn't say that theistic satanism is widespread compared to other religions, but amongst satanists themselves, they are growing in numbers (and some theistic satanists on the internet claim that they now outnumber laveyists, although I have no way of knowing if that is true or not).

I think where I take contention with some of the posts in this thread is that I see a deliberate attempt to either undermine the fact theistic satanists exist or to downplay it in an attempt to sweep the fact under the rug, as if it's of little relevance. At one point it was stated that individuals who hold some of these beliefs don't even exist, and once it was proven that they do, the focus changed to suggesting that they are in the minority and are a fringe group, or that because some people use it as a stage show to sell records that must mean there aren't actually people out there who have these beliefs. Watch the video I posted. Some of them DO have these beliefs.

I've never taken the position once in this thread that there is a secret cabal of theistic satanists lurking in every neighborhood, but I have stated (correctly) that they do infact exist, and aren't as much of a "lunatic fringe" as some would claim. In some cases they are highly organized and operate together to perform their rituals and ceremonies, so the excuse that it is just one or two whackos spread across the world isn't entirely accurate. In fact I would say that is a disingenuous suggestion, since the evidence seems to suggest their numbers are growing (by how much is obviously disputable).

Hi,

Enjoyed your post and I agree...... there is not a Satanist on every corner and they are well organized and their membership is a secret. An exclusive club ......like the masons, the Illuminati, and the bilderberg group (just to name a couple); very hard to penetrate and expose.

Jesuslives4u

Not true, you take offense to my post and it shows with your sneer comments. I do have an open mind and available for discussion but apparently you have been offended by what I say about witches and warlocks probably because you are one. If I am wrong then I am wrong, feel free to correct me.

You want to have dialogue fine, I have no problem with that. You ask for real facts? Isn't there enough information on the internet, books, newspapers, and TV ? Is that not enough for you?

No, this is what I found annoying, that you don't bother to know the point of view of those you are responding to. I took no offense to your posts, I took offense to your responses that offer no supporting evidence, just statements as though they are fact by you.Without supporting information those statements are nothing but opinion. I'm certainly not offended by any comments on witches or warlocks which is hilarious and shows you have not read a single thing I've written in this thread. Lets go all the way back to page 2 where I'm the only person in the entire thread who openly admitted and freely discussed being a LaVeyan Satanist.

I'm sure there is plenty of information out there regarding what you're saying but as the statements are yours it's proper etiquette on this forum to support your own statements and not expect others to do your research for you. Anything I have stated as fact I can support, if I can't support it I readily admit it is my personal opinion.

You say you are open to a dialogue but I've asked you questions as have several other only to be ignored or marginalized as you attempt to do to me in this reply. My philosophical leanings aren't something I discuss very often because of the amount of misinformation and judgement attributed to them but for the sake of integrity for the topic and conversation I tried to give the perspective of someone who has followedd and researched this philosophy for a little over 20 years. What I tried to bring to the table was something not offered up by anyone else and once that happened you changed the parameters of the discussion by redefining what type of satanism you were willing to discuss which came off as ingenuous to me. If my comments came off as sneer then I do apologize as I didn't intend it as such, it was a reflection of the level of frustration I felt by your own attitude and the misconceptions perpetuated by multiple people throughout this thread.

OP, I doubt you are going to find answers here on ATS. The membership isn't generally appropriate for the topic.

If you're really sincere in learning about the enemy and the people who worship him, then I suggest you go to a different forum that specialises in pagan beliefs and practices.

I have had some very good discussions with many types of Satanists about their beliefs and rituals. It is always respectful and polite. There is no mockery or denial. This is the only place I have been able to conduct a meaningful discussion with Christians, Satanists, and Wiccans about things like this.

FWIW, wiccans generally don't believe in the good / evil paradigm but they're educated enough to entertain the concept for the purpose of exploring the topic. Something that a lot of folks on the internet these days could learn from.

peter vlar
reply to post by Astrocyte

 

It's interesting to note that if any of these extreme evangelicals who are fried of the bogey man actually read the entire bible they might get a very different picture of Stan himself. Just read Job for example, god and satan are hanging out having a conversation about Job with god bragging about how well he's(job) doing because of his faith. It isn't until god gives ha-satan permission to test and torment job that he can do so. It becomes apparent that satan can't operate without gods cooperation if not his outright permission despite the earth supposedly belonging to satan and the 1/3 of angels that followed him.

You have some good points Peter. Yes there is a very definite legal system in place, and the accuser is a master legalist.

This could develop into a very interesting thread if people who had nothing constructive to say remained silent.
10 pages of mockery, atheistic denial, religious fear, and chatter makes for hard work. Following your comments was like changing the tires on a bus and I gave up 5 pages in. :-(

The majority of people you would call "Satanists" don't believe in an actual "Satan", and the ones that are theistic Satanists, are somehow tied in with the Christian church (Outcasts, rebelling teens etc) Because really, the only people that believe in "Satan" as you do, are Christians.

There is the other school of thought, though, where the Sumerian gods are represented in the Bible as Old Test God & Satan.. and the benevolent being gave Adam & Eve knowledge and freed them, and the malevolent god caused the flood and was spiteful and hateful (role reversal)

jessejamesxx
The majority of people you would call "Satanists" don't believe in an actual "Satan", and the ones that are theistic Satanists, are somehow tied in with the Christian church (Outcasts, rebelling teens etc) Because really, the only people that believe in "Satan" as you do, are Christians.

There is the other school of thought, though, where the Sumerian gods are represented in the Bible as Old Test God & Satan.. and the benevolent being gave Adam & Eve knowledge and freed them, and the malevolent god caused the flood and was spiteful and hateful (role reversal)

The battle between good and evil starts within a person. And the Bible is very clear about what is considered righteous/unrighteous-Worldly/Spiritually-Light/Dark-Believer/disbeliever-God/Satan.. The term Satan or the Devil is interpreted many different ways.

jessejamesxx
The majority of people you would call "Satanists" don't believe in an actual "Satan", and the ones that are theistic Satanists, are somehow tied in with the Christian church (Outcasts, rebelling teens etc) Because really, the only people that believe in "Satan" as you do, are Christians.

Finally! Someone gets it. LaVeyan Satanism is what we call the left hand path. Christianity is the right hand path and consequently theistic Satanists are also followers of the right hand path because their entire belief system is based on Christianity and their rebellion against the Christian god whereas the LaVeyan Satanist doesn't believe in any deities except the self as that's where our true power lies. In fact, any belief in a deity is grounds for no longer being a member of the COS and we consider devil worship/theistic satanism as nothing more than a perversion of Christianity.

In the words of Anton LaVey, High Priest of the church of satan-

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshiped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice

peter vlar
In the words of Anton LaVey, High Priest of the church of satan-

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshiped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice

But what you just said pretty much explains the Biblical description of Satanic.. Worldly lusts, worshipping the desires and pleasures of the world etc... Where you say you can tap in at will, the same idea applies to the teachings of God/Jesus. There is nothing supernatural about it, it is an avenue of self enlightenment so you don't do the stupid crap that comes with the physical world.

peter vlar
reply to post by TKDRL

 

exactly. There's a black metal band that's opened for my band a few times and the singer works at the dealership I used to get my car fixed at. Without the corpse paint on you'd have no clue that he pretended to impale animals on upside down crucifixes on stage. It's almost always a persona and an act. I've written songs about Chtulu but I sure as hell don't worship him or any other demons written about by Lovecraft. I just like the literature and the way Lovecraft put together the entire mythos but when the song starts and people hear someone screaming about Chtulu rising all hell breaks loose which as a performer is my bread and butter. It's all about what get your audience off while maintaining artistic integrity.

I see a hint of bias there...


So, the band is just a show... Wow! Really? Isn't that always the case???

This is where you are overlooking the issue. The FANS are NOT! Many of these fans actually believe this stuff! I remember a time when Stryper opened for Slayer. I actually went to that concert. Dude, I know people who are and have been satanists! Stop downplaying it as though it was a myth. Do you honestly think that these kinds of satanists would make themselves known in the main stream? That's like pedifiles coming out to say that they're pedifiles! Blood sacrifices of humans and animals are not exactly legal. So how would you know?

You said it yourself, that all of your information comes from opinions... then why are you acting like your info is accurate when we have shown examples, not opinions, on the matter? You're arguing everything but you have yet to follow the OP and it's purpose. If you're not a satanist, and you're not answering the OP, why the hellz are you arguing everything everyone says like you know what's going on when you don't even live the life.

I came here looking for an insight to how a true satanist believes and acts, and you're mucking up the works with constant posts arguing everything based on how YOU know it and you're not even a satanist... What's wrong with this picture?

At very least.... Stick to the OP and stop derailing it with your arguments...

THESE are real life DEVIL worshippers and so are MANY of their audiance...




PS... Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The netherlands.. this stuff is very popular there among teens.

reply to post by StallionDuck


Because my opinions are based on over 20 years of being a LaVeyan satanist as well as even longer researching the topic. As for my comment on the bands, get off your high horse before you all and get hurt. The comments were a direct reply to someone insisting the Scandinavian black metal bands were composed of satanic murders. Taking a quote out of context is rather ingenuous particularly since you obviously have not read all of my posts here because I AM a satanist. Get hooked on phonics and come back for a discussion without making ridiculous slanderous comments about me please. It's especially egregious when your examples are of other people and you have no first hand knowledge of any of this yet make the accusation against me despite my affiliations.

In response to your edit, what makes Ghost real live satan worshippers? The band itself says its all tongue in cheek and that they don't worship satan nor take it seriously.

You're the one making up insane claims and derailing any legitimate conversation and discounting my perspective based on your own perpetuated ignorance. Good luck with that


Just to add another thing because I keep being accused of not admitting that satanists are real. I do not nor have I ever made such a claim. My argument is that the version of satanism you are fear mongering about is nowhere near as prolific and widespread as you and some other try to paint the picture. Yes there are people of that nature there is no debating that. It simply isn't the predominant aspect of the philosophy whereas the LaVeyan principles are far more wide spread. If ou want examples of musicians who worship satan I can name several off the top of my head but nome of them are Norwegian black metal and you will probably not believe them. The closest to black metal you'll get is Kimg Diamond but so,e other interesting Satanists were Sammy Davis Jr. Liberace and a more obvious Marilyn Manson. Another odd one is actress Jane Mansfield.

reply to post by peter vlar

peter vlar
Just because most people know of satanism in one light doesn't make it the truth let alone mainstream.

But it is the truth. There really is a Traditional Satanism where people do a darker form of magic and worship Satan. When most people think of Satanism this is the Satanism that comes to mind, so this is the most well known form of Satanism in society, that's what I was saying. Even La'veyan Satanists have to say "no, we don't do that" because so many people are familiar with Traditional Satanism.

peter vlar
I just don't see how the Marquise de Sade can be tied to Satanism ogre than tangentially. He wrote a novel, a work of fiction. He wasn't performing black masses. Most analysis of his anticatholic works seem to find a correlation to his time at a Jesuit school as a youth and his later stances against the church.

I know many people were accused of Satanism back then. That's a good point. That's why I only mentioned people who actually wrote Satanic things, such as Marquise de Sade and Giosuè Carducci. Giosuè Carducci was known to be anti-vatican, hate christianity, and his work praising Satan was an actual poem in 1865, that is Traditional Satanism.

peter vlar
. I was hoping we as a people had moved a little beyond our pedestrian anachronistic beginnings and embraced reason and open mindedness.

But they do have reason. The reasoning behind Satanism is the natural law of evolution 'survival of the fittest - the weak goes extinct'. With this reasoning it is ok to sacrifice weaker people or animals. This is also the reason why Satanism is about improving yourself and making yourself stronger and stronger. Now, some Satanists such as "Laveyan" focus more on individuality, indulging and loving yourself, but even they admit that Satanism isn't for everyone but only for "the strong" (although Laveyan do not associate themselves with illegal practices like sacrifices). This seems to fit more along the lines of The Order of Nine Angles and Traditional Satanism.

Some Satanists just focus on the 'individualistic' part because, you do not have to let go of Compassion to be an individual and you can stay out of legal trouble; and when you think about it 'individualism' and 'selfishness' is the strongest form of Adversary against religion (Satan means Adversary). Religion whether it is Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or another, usually teach people to overcome their worldly desires so embracing your naturalistic selfishness would be adversarial to religion; and by promoting it to others, this can be seen as some form of Satanic Compassion where, instead of saying "don't care about the weak, let them go extinct", you actually encourage them to be more selfish and strong. I think this is more along the lines of where Laveyan Satanism and some other forms of Satanism are.

when reason is not based on Compassion (whether it be the Christian way of helping others through charity or the Satanic way of teaching them to be individual and strong on their own to help themselves) it can get really dangerous.

Mod Note

Please keep the conversation as impersonal as possible. I do understand we're discussing personal beliefs here, but refraining from direct insults or what may be viewed as 'put-downs' to individual members may be subject to removal.

Do not reply to this post.

What an amusement we have here!

Satanism, at it's eary ages, started as a pagan-based anti-theocratic movement like many other guilds, organizations and cults around the Europe formed against the Fascism of the Church. - But the very belief that goes thousands of years before this, that's not called Satanism; There are lots of names to refer that belief and it differs culture to culture. Of course, through time these beliefs lost every piece of information about them and with corrupted data, new cults with pretty retarded cultists were born to our little planet. Unfortunately, their little "Rituals" were nothing more than a bunch of crap. Yet their Fanaticism turned into Obsessions and because of their obssessive nature, such Rituals, Knowledge and Corrupted Old Beliefs became Myths among the Youth. - Remember, they were completely lost/sick people who drank blood, killed people/animals and made rituals out of these. None of them worked. But they kept believing. Not because they've experienced something, because they were obsessed. These sick people does not represent anything. They're just lost.

In fact, there's no such thing as Satanism. It's much more like how Church used the word "Paganism" to refer Idolatry to manipulate people against Pagans. - In that exact timeline, we've lost our faith in humanity. Later, some formed "organizations" became more and more vengeful, that sense of balance in Paganism fade out and left empty shells with nothing but fury. They were a minor group, but effective. Many followers after that era became hardcore Materialists. Never believed in Idealism, Spiritualism or anything that isn't related to our Material world. Ergo, they've joined the Class Wars against the common enemy with common allies. - That's why you can hardly find what's left of them.

The Satan figure in Abrahamic Beliefs is nothing more than a Symbol of Evil. It's an Image, not reality. - Yes, people believed in "Evil Gods" in the past. But that was the freaking Dark Ages. Nowadays? You want a scapegoat? Go take a look at the world we've developed to see the true Satan. - It's not some Fallen Angel, not a Horny Goat, not a Small-minded Demon.

How many Christian denominations are there? They all tend to seriously disagree with each other at some level. Some even go so far as to consider others as not even Christian.

Why would Satanism be any different? there are many different denominations existing under the umbrella term, just as there are Christian denominations. And this makes total sense to me because I see Satanism and Christianity as being intimately connected. The language and practices are intimately connected.

Consider left and right hand paths. You can not have a left hand and a right hand without having a common core that connects the two.

saferian
...The Satan figure in Abrahamic Beliefs is nothing more than a Symbol of Evil. It's an Image, not reality. - Yes, people believed in "Evil Gods" in the past. But that was the freaking Dark Ages. Nowadays? You want a scapegoat? Go take a look at the world we've developed to see the true Satan. - It's not some Fallen Angel, not a Horny Goat, not a Small-minded Demon.

Yeah, I disagree with that completely and I'm not too sure on what basis you have built this opinion. I'll assume you have an actual foundation and respect it anyways.

The Satan figure in Abrahamic beliefs is not a symbol, but a designation. The true name of the accuser is not known, and might very well be fulfilled by multiple entities. We simply are not told. All we know is that the title is held by the highest ranking entity in opposition to God the creator. This does not mean that other entities also hold this title.

The world we've developed is a product of our (fallen) nature. That is very different from an "evil god", or a fallen angel. And I very much doubt such a thing exists as a small-minded demon. If you entertain and accept the concept that demons exist, then you must also accept that their intellect and abilities are far superior to ours based on the texts that hold knowledge about them.

arpgme
But it is the truth. There really is a Traditional Satanism where people do a darker form of magic and worship Satan. When most people think of Satanism this is the Satanism that comes to mind, so this is the most well known form of Satanism in society, that's what I was saying. Even La'veyan Satanists have to say "no, we don't do that" because so many people are familiar with Traditional Satanism.

I guess the argument then comes down to perspective. To an outsider, I can see how the stereotypical form of satan worship involving blood rituals, sacrifice and black magic is viewed as "traditional" but that's not really the case. That type of satanism has only really been around since the end of the 19th century and became prevalent with Aleister Crowley
and his penchant for ritualistic sex magic and his joining of orders like the Golden Dawn that were off shoots of free masonry. This type of satanism isn't even really satanism but has heavily influenced what you would consider more traditional satanic worship. However the traditional version as you see it is a hodge pledge and mash up of worshipping the devil mixed with Crowley's various rituals for calling up demons, sex majik and the more brutal sacrificial aspects.

But they do have reason. The reasoning behind Satanism is the natural law of evolution 'survival of the fittest - the weak goes extinct'. With this reasoning it is ok to sacrifice weaker people or animals. This is also the reason why Satanism is about improving yourself and making yourself stronger and stronger. Now, some Satanists such as "Laveyan" focus more on individuality, indulging and loving yourself, but even they admit that Satanism isn't for everyone but only for "the strong" (although Laveyan do not associate themselves with illegal practices like sacrifices). This seems to fit more along the lines of The Order of Nine Angles and Traditional Satanism.

Again I disagree but I'm also looking at it from the initiated perspective of LaVey's Church of Satan and our world view. We are not to harm anyone who has done us no harm first. We do not harm children or innocents. It's not about a show of strength but making yourself who you feel you are inside. Again, I don't dispute that there are evil people practicing a bastardized version of satanism with nothing but ill intent and the desire to harm and being filled with selfishness. What I dispute is how widespread and prevalent a lot of people seem to think it is when it really is a small minority who make people like me look bad and get judged and stereotyped by it. In that context I hope you can see why I argue so fervently about this.

Some Satanists just focus on the 'individualistic' part because, you do not have to let go of Compassion to be an individual and you can stay out of legal trouble; and when you think about it 'individualism' and 'selfishness' is the strongest form of Adversary against religion (Satan means Adversary). Religion whether it is Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism or another, usually teach people to overcome their worldly desires so embracing your naturalistic selfishness would be adversarial to religion; and by promoting it to others, this can be seen as some form of Satanic Compassion where, instead of saying "don't care about the weak, let them go extinct", you actually encourage them to be more selfish and strong. I think this is more along the lines of where Laveyan Satanism and some other forms of Satanism are.

No you do not have to renounce compassion. In fact without compassion then who are we? Who do we become? Not someone I want to be nor associate with. While in Hebrew ha-satan does mean the adversary, what we believe is in no deity whatsoever. That kind of belief discounts you from membership. To us, satan is an allegory for nature, a path to self transformation from who society perceives us to be into who we feel we really are inside. We don't actually encourage people to be selfish though selfishness is with many of us a manifestation because of how we have felt constrained by society and its rules. It's definitely a rebellious philosophy and our maxim is "I am my own god". When you get right down to it, our perspective of religion as it were is that we travel the left hand path where Christianity travels the right hand path. Consequently the type of satanist who believes the devil will give him strength or power through sacrifice and ritual also travels the right hand path as their entire belief system is based on JudeoChristian teachings with their deity in direct opposition to the Abrahamic god. In our view they are merely a misguided perversion of Christianity and are far more selfish in their leanings than are we.

when reason is not based on Compassion (whether it be the Christian way of helping others through charity or the Satanic way of teaching them to be individual and strong on their own to help themselves) it can get really dangerous.

Certainly, without reason and compassion we tend to lose track of what makes us human. On page 2 of this thread I made a somewhat lengthy post detailing some basic tenets of LaVeyan Satanism. I would implore people on here to check it out and familiarize themselves with it in the hopes it gives the, a better understanding of who we really are and what we stand for. Here's a link for it-

www.abovetopsecret.com...

peter vlar

jessejamesxx
The majority of people you would call "Satanists" don't believe in an actual "Satan", and the ones that are theistic Satanists, are somehow tied in with the Christian church (Outcasts, rebelling teens etc) Because really, the only people that believe in "Satan" as you do, are Christians.

Finally! Someone gets it. LaVeyan Satanism is what we call the left hand path. Christianity is the right hand path and consequently theistic Satanists are also followers of the right hand path because their entire belief system is based on Christianity and their rebellion against the Christian god whereas the LaVeyan Satanist doesn't believe in any deities except the self as that's where our true power lies. In fact, any belief in a deity is grounds for no longer being a member of the COS and we consider devil worship/theistic satanism as nothing more than a perversion of Christianity.

In the words of Anton LaVey, High Priest of the church of satan-

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshiped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice

No one is saying they do not understand what you are saying however you maintain that Satanist are defined as you have stated above and anything else is teenagers playing out evil attacks and this is incorrect. Explain this to thousands maybe millions (worldwide) of children and adults who have become victims of Satanic Ritual Abuse. SRA blows your whole theory out of the water.

You are misleading people. Take a look at a previous posts on this thread where LaVey had admitted to praying to Satan due to his sick child.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u


No you're misleading people. You're now claiming thousands and maybe millions of people are victims of RSA but you aren't supporting the statement. Maybe you should read over what I've been writing because I have repeated ad infinitum that I do not deny there are evil people in the world who will practice an extreme form of satanism. What I argue against is how widespread it is and also against the fact that many things are considered satanic when they are not. SRA doesnt blow anything out of the water, sorry. Could you be a little more specific where in the thread the post you are referring to is? There are 11 pages and right now I just don't have the time to go through the entire thread again to search it out.

As for what I had written, that you've replied to here, you're misinterpreting what I said. I was very clearly referring to LaVeyan satanism. It's the second sentence above. I have differentiated between the LaVeyan philosophies and the more heinous types of satanism multiple times. I'm sorry that you believe so strongly in the paradigm you've built for yourself but it simply isn't true to the extent you insist it is.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u


Remember that we are discussing esoteric matters and practices. If you are interested in learning more about the SRA and chosen ones then discussing LaVeyan Satanism isn't going to take you there.

In this case you need to look into old blood ritual Luciferianism. You may need to refer back to Russ Dizdar's materials (I'm guessing you have studied this), and re-search what he has to say on this.

Even though he refers to the church of Satan a lot, it's in the general context of gateway beliefs and practices. Not to the underground itself.

peter vlar
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

No you're misleading people. You're now claiming thousands and maybe millions of people are victims of RSA but you aren't supporting the statement. Maybe you should read over what I've been writing because I have repeated ad infinitum that I do not deny there are evil people in the world who will practice an extreme form of satanism. What I argue against is how widespread it is and also against the fact that many things are considered satanic when they are not. SRA doesnt blow anything out of the water, sorry. Could you be a little more specific where in the thread the post you are referring to is? There are 11 pages and right now I just don't have the time to go through the entire thread again to search it out.

As for what I had written, that you've replied to here, you're misinterpreting what I said. I was very clearly referring to LaVeyan satanism. It's the second sentence above. I have differentiated between the LaVeyan philosophies and the more heinous types of satanism multiple times. I'm sorry that you believe so strongly in the paradigm you've built for yourself but it simply isn't true to the extent you insist it is.

Satanic Worshipping, Child
Sacrificing In Butler County, MO
Woman comes forward with horror stories of
government cover-up of hundreds of bodies.
By Greg Szymanski
Arctic Beacon.com
11-4-6

From the time Debbie Pitts was a child, she was beaten, tortured, abused and even put in a straight jacket.

According to Pitts, she was thrust against her will into a dark and deeply sinister Satanic cult, a cult protected by state of Missouri and federal authorities.

And if wasn't for the grace of God, Pitts, 51, says she wouldn't be here today to tell her incredible story, a sick and devious story illustrating how the forces of evil really work.

For more informative articles, go to www.arcticbeacon.com