Russia's Military Begins Massive Nuclear War Drill.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Thanks for the info. For someone not very versed in all this it just seems like it would be harder to track russian subs than just keeping track of
what is going through the black sea. I really don't know anything much at all about them except for that fact that nukes scare me and nukes
on a submarine hard to track terrify me. Damn, I just wish we could all just play fair and spend war funds on making the world a better place
to live.

reply to post by savagediver


You and me both. The big problem with that is the same reason we have bullies on the schoolyard. Someone will always decide to throw their weight around and take advantage because they figure they can.

cosmicexplorer
reply to post by skuly

 

Well although ive been torn to shreds several times for having this view....

You poke Russia enough and sanction it ...it could lead to desperation.

We can argue all day long whether Russia had a right to Crimera...but beyond that you have one of the biggest super powers in the world on edge...and being pushed.

correct, and they are obviously not going to tolerate any more ignorance, double standards, hypocrisy from West.
Rightfully so. Ukraine is to close, this was alarm bell for Russia.

cosmonova

cosmicexplorer
reply to post by skuly

 

Well although ive been torn to shreds several times for having this view....

You poke Russia enough and sanction it ...it could lead to desperation.

We can argue all day long whether Russia had a right to Crimera...but beyond that you have one of the biggest super powers in the world on edge...and being pushed.

correct, and they are obviously not going to tolerate any more ignorance, double standards, hypocrisy from West.
Rightfully so. Ukraine is too close, this was alarm bell for Russia.

reply to post by cosmonova



double post

cosmonova

cosmicexplorer
reply to post by skuly

 

Well although ive been torn to shreds several times for having this view....

You poke Russia enough and sanction it ...it could lead to desperation.

We can argue all day long whether Russia had a right to Crimera...but beyond that you have one of the biggest super powers in the world on edge...and being pushed.

correct, and they are obviously not going to tolerate any more ignorance, double standards, hypocrisy from West.
Rightfully so. Ukraine is to close, this was alarm bell for Russia.

Too close for what?

Do we need to create a DMZ between Russia and the rest of the world now so they feel secure? How wide should it be?

Or should we just try to force Ukraine to have to ties with any other country in the world so that Russia can feel better about itself?

ketsuko

cosmonova

cosmicexplorer
reply to post by skuly

 

Well although ive been torn to shreds several times for having this view....

You poke Russia enough and sanction it ...it could lead to desperation.

We can argue all day long whether Russia had a right to Crimera...but beyond that you have one of the biggest super powers in the world on edge...and being pushed.

correct, and they are obviously not going to tolerate any more ignorance, double standards, hypocrisy from West.
Rightfully so. Ukraine is to close, this was alarm bell for Russia.

Too close for what?

Do we need to create a DMZ between Russia and the rest of the world now so they feel secure? How wide should it be?

Or should we just try to force Ukraine to have to ties with any other country in the world so that Russia can feel better about itself?

Did you miss the western funded coup d'etat that ousted yanukovich, who already said no to the EU, but had to call for elections later in the year because that same western pressure?
See, these are the double standards and hipicrisy you are being told about, and the russians fed up...

savagediver
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Thanks for the info. For someone not very versed in all this it just seems like it would be harder to track russian subs than just keeping track of
what is going through the black sea. I really don't know anything much at all about them except for that fact that nukes scare me and nukes
on a submarine hard to track terrify me. Damn, I just wish we could all just play fair and spend war funds on making the world a better place
to live.

Any sane person should be scared of nuclear weapons. It's the weapon that keeps on giving, well after it's been used.

Imagine a small room with several people in it. Each has a live grenade. Worse. The pin is pulled on all those grenades and each are holding it.

That's what MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) is about. You don't dare use your grenade, as others will use theirs. And being in a small room like that, it's going to hurt everyone very badly.

In times past, MAD was pretty effective. All sides knew that there was no "winning" a nuclear war. Any country launching a first strike will be devastated with retaliation.

However, MAD has become a bit lopsided. The US over time has built a very good defense or interception system. We have kept up our nuclear system and have even better guidance systems with them. Where as Russia on the other had has not (fall of the soviet union, political change, lack of money to spend on it, etc).

It means that MAD is not a sure thing anymore, and as you would think, something like that can make one uneasy. It certainly does not make Russia happy, and there have been advocates here in the US that think we could pull off a first strike ourselves (they are insane.....no one "wins").

The good news is: most world leaders know the first one to pull out their nukes and use them are going to be painted the "BAD GUY" to the rest of the world, no mater if you're "west" or "east". Putin knows this, and knows if he were to launch nukes, he would be committing suicide for Russia.

However, he (Putin) knows that the west would not use it's nuclear weapons, so long as he doesn't use his.

reply to post by Yusomad

See, these are the double standards and hipicrisy you are being told about, and the russians fed up...

And Russia trying to take back countries they used to have power over before the fall of Russia is fine and dandy with you?

How about the fact that Russia signed a non agression treaty with Ukraine in return they gave up the nuclear weapons they had, but because of the west that is OK?

Russia is just the victim in all of this I suppose?

A limited nuclear exchange is survivable. Also can reduce populations and bring about radical change faster than any conventional war.

eriktheawful

savagediver
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Thanks for the info. For someone not very versed in all this it just seems like it would be harder to track russian subs than just keeping track of
what is going through the black sea. I really don't know anything much at all about them except for that fact that nukes scare me and nukes
on a submarine hard to track terrify me. Damn, I just wish we could all just play fair and spend war funds on making the world a better place
to live.

Any sane person should be scared of nuclear weapons. It's the weapon that keeps on giving, well after it's been used.

Imagine a small room with several people in it. Each has a live grenade. Worse. The pin is pulled on all those grenades and each are holding it.

That's what MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) is about. You don't dare use your grenade, as others will use theirs. And being in a small room like that, it's going to hurt everyone very badly.

In times past, MAD was pretty effective. All sides knew that there was no "winning" a nuclear war. Any country launching a first strike will be devastated with retaliation.

However, MAD has become a bit lopsided. The US over time has built a very good defense or interception system. We have kept up our nuclear system and have even better guidance systems with them. Where as Russia on the other had has not (fall of the soviet union, political change, lack of money to spend on it, etc).

It means that MAD is not a sure thing anymore, and as you would think, something like that can make one uneasy. It certainly does not make Russia happy, and there have been advocates here in the US that think we could pull off a first strike ourselves (they are insane.....no one "wins").

The good news is: most world leaders know the first one to pull out their nukes and use them are going to be painted the "BAD GUY" to the rest of the world, no mater if you're "west" or "east". Putin knows this, and knows if he were to launch nukes, he would be committing suicide for Russia.

However, he (Putin) knows that the west would not use it's nuclear weapons, so long as he doesn't use his.

The problem with MAD, is what if someone is in control of nukes who is mad, themselves? What if Putin or Obama decided they really didn't care if they kill off the human race and decide to launch everything they got just for fun? The principles of MAD only apply if everyone that has nukes actually wants their people to not be annihilated.

What if someone is elected leader of France, India, Pakistan, etc who wants to be a martyr, and launch all their nukes at everyone?

It's only a matter of time until someone crazy who doesn't care about MAD gets control of an arsenal.

Call me paranoid but could this whole situation be a pre-emptive move on the part of Russia?

blogs.fas.org...

Notice the dates here, integration of the new more accurate version of the B61 into existing NATO aircraft is due to start next year (rather tellingly this includes jets based in Turkey).

When you join the dots further you find this announcement:

www.defensenews.com...

That article is dated Feb 6th, only 3 weeks before the Russian/Pro-Russian forces took effective control of Crimea.

My musings probably belong in the skunk works but it is food for thought...

kid_of_3NKi

BeliefInReality
reply to post by skuly

 

Crazy thing is, if you replace Russia with America in this article, all the anti-American ATS posters would be coming out in droves to demonize the US. Instead my guess is a majority of comments on this thread will be pro Pootin and will laud him as "a great leader defending his people against western aggression."

Pootin has his own flock of sheeple these days.

Oh yes, including me

The USA were tolerated for much too long with their imperialistic and arrogant behavour. And masses of people worldwide, also many western citizens like me tend to be pro Putin just because they are TOTALLY fed up with the terror of modern capitalism by those damn Bilderberger elites

Ko3

Problem is that half of Russia's ballistic missiles are aimed at China as well, and therefore Russia, undertaking this isn't just throwing a little temper tantrum at "the West" but also at China as well... The Chinese tend to not have as good a sense of humor as we do in these situations.

No this is back to Cold War rhetoric and has nothing to do with the United States getting away with anything, in 1999 Putin gave a speech that outlined his plans to re-visit the Soviet era and he's just following through, hence the resurgence of hammers and sickles that he also approved... Putin is an outdated, and dangerous person with delusions of an empire that faltered under it's own weight..

reply to post by WP4YT


Depends upon the system in which the country has and uses to deploy their nuclear weapons.

There isn't a big red button that one simply pushes, and it's done.

Ol Vlad wakes up one morning an decides he wants to make history by launching his nukes, more than likely we'll end up reading how he unfortunately passed away from "natural causes".

Even his most staunch supporters know that a nuclear exchange would be a very bad thing.

Same thing for how it works with us.

This is because of exactly what you suggested: What if a mad man is in charge? That has been thought of long ago.

But, as I said: MAD is not a sure thing anymore. What happens when you have a country who's government is dictated by their religion? What happens if they firmly believe that "Heaven" awaits those who would martyr themselves, while killing as many "non-believers" as possible?

Now you have a major concern. Now you have a person with that grenade who does not care, and who actually thinks killing everyone in the room, including themselves is a "good thing".

I grew up during the original Cold War. I joined the Navy when the USSR still existed. The threat of global nuclear war has always existed for me. You learn to live with it and not let the fear of it dominate your life.

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Yusomad

 

See, these are the double standards and hipicrisy you are being told about, and the russians fed up...

And Russia trying to take back countries they used to have power over before the fall of Russia is fine and dandy with you?

How about the fact that Russia signed a non agression treaty with Ukraine in return they gave up the nuclear weapons they had, but because of the west that is OK?

Russia is just the victim in all of this I suppose?

As good as the west trying to control the eastern world via proxy wars and "terror" scares, what? You dont know what the world is about?
Russia signed a treaty with a country that was at the time friendly, then 3 weeks ago under the boot of neonazi militias, as stated in woldwide TV(funny how when the news are not of your liking, you dont seem to hear-see them), from then on, there was no pact.
But no, russia is no victim here, victims are the ukranians that got dragged into a civil war thanks to the western bankers.

ketsuko

cosmonova

cosmicexplorer
reply to post by skuly

 

Well although ive been torn to shreds several times for having this view....

You poke Russia enough and sanction it ...it could lead to desperation.

We can argue all day long whether Russia had a right to Crimera...but beyond that you have one of the biggest super powers in the world on edge...and being pushed.

correct, and they are obviously not going to tolerate any more ignorance, double standards, hypocrisy from West.
Rightfully so. Ukraine is to close, this was alarm bell for Russia.

Too close for what?

Do we need to create a DMZ between Russia and the rest of the world now so they feel secure? How wide should it be?

Or should we just try to force Ukraine to have to ties with any other country in the world so that Russia can feel better about itself?

To close to be part of NATO obviously.
Cuban crisis ring a bell? Russia would never let Ukraine to be a part of NATO.

TechniXcality
reply to post by skuly

 

I am not,a west bashing idiot in fact i love the west i love our freedoms

Gun Control, Internet Censorship, telephone, email and text message data collecting, CCTV on every corner, taxes on everything, corrupt police, licenses to do pretty much anything of any worth, greedy sadistic government.

TechniXcality
i love our prosperity

16 trillion in debt, or was it 18? and rising and a currency on the verge of collapse

I think you are confused. just because you dont have to walk 10 miles to fetch a bucket of clean water every morning doesnt mean you are free and prosperous. Yours and my countries are in a whole different kind of mess.

And im not loving it.

reply to post by Yusomad

As good as the west trying to control the eastern world via proxy wars and "terror" scares, what? You dont know what the world is about?

You got me, I am dumb to what the world is about, except for one thing...You know nothing about me, or what I know so your assumption is a fallacy.

Funny, but who does the world call upon when things start to go south in their country...it is the west.

And Russia doesn't do the exact same thing?

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


You mean that America just asserts itself whenever it is beneficial to them...

reply to post by Voyaging

You mean that America just asserts itself whenever it is beneficial to them...

No, I said exactly what I mean.

And I will ask again...

Is Russia not guilty of the exact same thing?