Titanic Survivor's Revealing Letter Sparks a Stir With History Lovers

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by research100

 

Thanks for linking that. From the conversation that followed:

The worst of human nature often brings out the best in short order. 20 men murdered thousands on 9/11, but hundreds more charged into certain death on the off chance they could help a stranger. Millions perished in the Holocaust, yet there were those who risked their's and their families' lives to smuggle those selected for death to safety. And when an arrogant boast of man's domination of nature was quashed in the North Atlantic, those willing to forfeit their lives so others may live were present, still.

This is a redditor tht I wish we had at ATS.

Consider the stories she told. About the altruism displayed by billionaires. Sure, the social class distinction among the survivors is marked. But the gender and age distinction is even more so. Chivalry and human altruism broke through selfish trappings of wealth.

There wasn't a whole lot of altruism in regards to the Titanic. The difference between class was actually incredibly marked. Overall if you were male and an adult though, you were kind of screwed. While first and second class children had a near 100% survival rate, first, second, and third class women and crew had higher survival rates than third class children. Really scary actually because you'd think that the third class children would've at least had a higher survival rate than the third class women. That's a pretty stark difference and whether that difference was due to snobbery or simply speaking another language, it's hard to say. My grandmother's side was supposed to be on the Titanic. Had third class tickets and everything. Her motto was that, if it weren't for what seemed like bad luck at the time, we would've never existed as our progenitors would have likely perished as they didn't speak english.

www.anesi.com...

I do believe, however, that altruism does exist. It may be uncommon seeming at times but it's there in any group. A few in the crowd that don't get paralyzed by fear or driven mad to survive. Margaret Brown definitely comes to mind on that one in regards to the Titanic:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by research100


From your link…

We were intending to find out what was happening, when a passing officer told us "It is nothing, return to your cabin." I answered "Listen to that loud noise, it sounds like water is flowing into the ship."

And that is another lesson. When the ship is sinking the people in charge will still tell you every things fine.

research100
reply to post by sled735

 

here is a link with the transcribed pages www.reddit.com...

I just finished the translated pages. Wow! I had chills the whole time!

Thank you again for that link.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Thank you!!
It's good to have backup here that can verify was was written, even though the translation was provided.

reply to post by sled735


You're welcome. I just wish that old cursive wasn't my nemesis so I could've done a better and smoother translation. Always good to shake the rust off of the French, lol.

reply to post by sled735


And that's why you never get into a boat built by J.P Morgan.

WeSbO
In the above transcription the most inportant page is missing, number 3 (unless I missed it) : In which she says that on the Sunday, the french boat "Le Touraine" signaled to the titanic to watch out for the Icebergs, But the President of white star line, Bruce Ismay (a survivor I think ?) said there is nothing to worry about and that the titanic was insubmersible. This happened when the were close to Terre Neuve Island (Ile de terre neuve)


Otherwise the reddit translation is quite ok.

edit on 28-3-2014 by WeSbO because: (no reason given)

If you click on the link and scroll quite aways down frenchlitgeek does give the 3rd page. and then further down the same poster compiles all the translated pages in chronological order. Well worth the time to read it.

reply to post by missvicky


Here is the translated pages from member ImakeTs from the link:
www.reddit.com...

Page 1
The Titanic Sinking My most tragic memory of my seventeen year trip around the world is the Titanic sinking.
I'm 83 year old, but it is an hour [a moment] of my life that I will never forget. I was in Paris when I've met, through a friend interpreter, Mrs George Stone, widow of an American, president of the Bell Cie [it's a Canadian company, for what I know, anyway], the general telephone Cie, who was looking for a person enjoying travelling to accompany her. My lifelong dream was about to be fullfilled : I decided to go with her to America. I can't list... all the countries where we have been. In winter 1912, we were in Egypt; our travel went on to the Holy Land and ended in Jerusalem. That unforgettable travel to Jesus' country came very close to be the last of them all.

Page 2
Back in Europe, after having been in Paris and London, we boarded on the Titanic on April 10th 1912. It was Mrs Stone who took got the tickets in London, and told me, delighted, that we would board on the nicest liner. The preceding nights, I had dreamed about death, ripped open trunks : a pressentiment, maybe, made me tell [to myself] that I should not have choosen the Titanic. The Commander Smith, even if he was about to retired, was choosen by the White Star Line to drive this floating palace for his its first travel; I can still wee see him, a handsome old man with a white beard. It is him he himself who helped me to get in the lifeboat. During the four days that lasted the short-lived [fare?] of this splendid transatlantic liner, it was all about celebrations, ceremonial dinners of royal luxury, the toilets clothes dresses [were] somptuous sumptuous, it was a display of shining jewels and of rivers of diamonds worthy of an oriental splendour.

Page 3
Amongst this elegant audience were seven to eight young couples back from their honeymoon : several were not unknown to us, we had met them in our stay in Egypt. On the afternoon of April 12th, it was a Sunday, the music played on board had been playing on several occasions Gounod's Ave Maria, La Veuve joyeuse, etc. It was very cold : we were near Newfoundland. I had to go downstairs [one the lower decks] in my cabin to warm me up. A French boat, « Le Touraine », je crois I think, had transmitted « Beware. Icebergs. » But! The president Bruce Ismay assured us that nothing was to be feared, that the Titanic was [invicible? unsinkable]. The last evening was particularly turbulent animated: concerts, ball, festivity.And yet all this couldn’t chase the indistinct anxiety that was still tourmenting me. I even did not change my clothes, I didn’t feel like it even if all around me the ladies were competing in style between themselves.

Page 4
Towards eleven o'clock: Mrs. Stone and I went to bed. Three quarters of an hour later, as the liner was cruising at full speed, a terrifying shock threw us out of bed. We were intending to find out what was happening, when a passing officer told us "It is nothing, return to your cabin." I answered "Listen to that loud noise, it sounds like water is flowing into the ship. "Upon our return to the cabin I saw that our [female] neighbor from across the passageway had gone back to bed. Her daughter arrived in a panic, yelling "Mommy, quick quick, get up it's very serious." I helped Mrs. Stone to dress, she took her lifebelt and told me "come quickly. I was trembling, and still in my dressing gown, I took a coat, my lifebelt, and followed her on deck.

Page 5
There I found my travel blanket and my fur coat, left on my lounge chair. They were to miraculously preserve me as revealed later. We felt beneath our feet the deck lean towards the depths. I went back belowdecks to retrieve the jewels of Mrs. Stone [but] fortunately, I choose the wrong stairwell and returned to the deck halfway there. Fortunately for me, for I would have never come back up again.At this moment we witnessed unforgettable scenes where horror mixed with the most sublime heroism. Women, still in evening gowns, some just out of bed, barely clothed, disheveled, distraught, scrambled for the boats.Commander Smith yelled, "Women and children first". Firm and calm, in the throng, officers and sailors were taking the women and children by the arm and directing them towards the lifeboats.

Page 6
Near me were two handsome elderly [people], Mr. and Mrs. Straus, proprietors of the great store Macy's of New-York, she refused to go into the boat after having helped in her maid.She put her arms around the neck of her husband, telling him"We have been married 50 years, we have never left each other, I want to die with you."Semi-conscious, in a neighboring boat was put the young wife of the millionaire J. Jacob Astor, returning from their honeymoon voyage she was 20 years old, him 50. She latches on to him, he was obliged to push her away with force.The seamen in blue jackets, belts, and berets, struck up the beautiful hymn
Closer to you my Lord
This is the cry of my faith,
Closer to you.

Page 7
The lifeboats were quickly brought down. By miracle Mrs. Stone and I found ourselves in the same boat, where we were about thirty people. The officer said “Row strongly, you only have twenty five minutes to save your life”. I took the oars and rowed with so much energy that my hands were bleeding and my wrists were paralyzed; because we had to hurry to escape the huge chasm that was going to be opened when the Titanic would sink. It was at this moment that I noticed that someone was hidden underneath me. I didn’t have the strength to reveal his presence. I’ve never known who the man who saved his own life this way was. As we were receding in an almost calm sea, weakly lit by the lantern that the officer was holding, I didn’t take my eyes off the shining Titanic.

Page 8
Suddenly, there was darkness, whole and inscrutable, shouts, horrible yells, rose in the middle of the creaks of the boat, then that was it. Sometimes, 43 years after the tragedy, I still dream about it. From the 2,229 passengers and crew, only 745 were saved. After that night of terror, at first light, before the arrival of the Carpathia which would collect us dazed, completely exhausted, our boat and some others went back to the scene of the tragedy. The waters were calm and bare, and nothing could suggest that the sea giant was engulfed there. Alone, in front of us, two cathedrals of ice which were pinkening under the first sunlight offered a spectacle of rare beauty.

Page 9
When we were gathered in the dining room of the Carpathia, very painful scenes happened. The young women were there without their husbands, mothers without their sons; a young mother whom a wave had snatched her child from had gone insane, and mistaken for her child a child that was presented to her. Some survivors told the story of the horrific moments during which all human feelings were opposed. There had been sublime gestures, a stranger undid his safety belt to give it to an old woman who couldn’t find a spot in any boat, and told her “You’ll pray for me”. The billionaire Benjamin Guggenheim after having helped the rescue of women and children got dressed, a rose at his buttonhole, to die.A pastor said the prayers for the missings.
Page 10
The Carpathia which was headed for Genoa turned around to bring us back to New-York. I won't talk about our arrival where I witnessed poignant scenes once again. To Madame Ausein [???] in memory of her dear mother with whom I've lived this tragic disaster during the night of April 14th to 15th 1912.Rose Amélie IcardGrenoble August 8th, 1955

reply to post by WhiteAlice


The thing that jumped out at me about Molly Brown (from your link), other than her wanting to save the others, was looking at her salary then vs. today. Wow! Look at how inflation has risen!

No wonder the whole world is debt!

Her bio is quite interesting too. Good read! A rags to riches love story.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

en.wikipedia.org...

Brown had always planned to marry a rich man but she married J.J. for love. She said,

I wanted a rich man, but I loved Jim Brown. I thought about how I wanted comfort for my father and how I had determined to stay single until a man presented himself who could give to the tired old man the things I longed for him. Jim was as poor as we were, and had no better chance in life. I struggled hard with myself in those days. I loved Jim, but he was poor. Finally, I decided that I'd be better off with a poor man whom I loved than with a wealthy one whose money had attracted me. So I married Jim Brown.

The Brown family acquired great wealth when J.J.'s mining engineering efforts proved instrumental in the production of a substantial ore seam at the Little Jonny Mine of his employers, Ibex Mining Company, and he was awarded 12,500 shares of stock and a seat on the board. In Leadville, Margaret helped by working in soup kitchens to assist miners' families.

Margaret "Molly" Brown, survivor of the Titanic. Date: 1920
Born Margaret Tobin
July 18, 1867
Hannibal, Missouri
Died October 26, 1932 (aged 65)
New York City, New York
Cause of death
Brain tumor
Resting place
Cemetery of the Holy Rood
Residence New York City, New York
Nationality American
Other names Molly Brown, Maggie Brown, The Unsinkable Molly Brown, Margaret Tobin Brown, Mrs. James J. Brown
Occupation Socialite, activist
Known for Titanic survivor
Home town Denver, Colorado
Salary $700/month (now $18,107/month)
Net worth 238,000 (now 3,304,557)
Religion Roman Catholic
Spouse(s) James Joseph Brown (1886–1922); (his death)
Children 2
Parents John Tobin (1820–1899)
Johanna Collins (1825–1905)

slowisfast
reply to post by Spiro

 

Thanks for sharing these!

Did your grandfather, by any chance, talk of the Titanic/Olympic switcheroo conspiracy?

edit on 28-3-2014 by slowisfast because: sp

Hi there,

Yes he did but not directly to me but rather my grandfather. Some of the things that was passed down to me are a bit faded however I am visiting my grandparents tomorrow for lunch so I will refresh it all and ask him loads

I don't want to mislead at this point by not getting a refresh lol.

I can tell you the switch was NOT done in Belfast!!!

Cheers

Spiro

reply to post by sled735




Very lovely find. Chilling yet.
This:

Page 7
The officer said “Row strongly, you only have twenty five minutes to save your life”. I took the oars and rowed with so much energy that my hands were bleeding and my wrists were paralyzed; because we had to hurry to escape the huge chasm that was going to be opened when the Titanic would sink.

But always, and the most chilling of course:

Page 8
From the 2,229 passengers and crew, only 745 were saved.

Always fascinating to read obscure or otherwise not well known first-hand accounts.

Nice post.

I tried watching the latest Hollywood movie version ... Leonardo and Kate.
The fake version .. with all the theft and shooting and the necklace ..
I've tried a few times but I can't do it. I keep thinking about the real people who died so horribly.

reply to post by sled735


Yep. The "unsinkable" Molly Brown has always been one of my most favorite historical people. That woman seemed to be unflappable, filled with common sense and empathy. All around great person and one hell of a lady. World would be a much better place if we all took a cue from Mrs. Brown.

reply to post by sled735


Wow.......goosebumps and teary eyes whilst reading the translation.......I can imagine all those women that were saved going insane without their children and husbands......horrendous.......but thank you for sharing this letter.

What a fascinating story. I found the Titanic Museum on the Google Streetview:

goo.gl...).

We have ocean liners that dock at the harbor at the edge of our city. Seeing them close up, with the vast number of passenger cabins, decks, lounges and sunbridges, it's hard to believe that anything that size would sink. I couldn't imagine what it would be like to suddenly have the freedom of that vast amount of space reduced down to a single seat in a lifeboat and see that whole world just disappear under the waves in the night, leaving you wonder whether you would ever be rescued.

reply to post by Spiro


Thanks for getting back!
Not in Belfast? Oooh, the intrigue! Definitely one of my favorite c.t's. Hope you enjoyed the visit! I look forward to anything you can pass along.

reply to post by sled735


I believe there is an episode of the Ghost Hunters where they went to the Titanic Museum (s5 e6 I think), there are many artifacts in the museum that were brought up from the wreckage

reply to post by stormcell


Wow! What an amazing aerial photo!

I didn't realize the building itself was shaped like the ship. I need to get over there!
I think I'll pay them a visit on my vacation in May.

Id definitely like to read the rest.

Also.. ive been considering a move to the Gatlinburg area. Ive never been to the museum but ive driven by (family has a vacation place near jefferson city).

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


If you go through the pages, I put up the translation for all the pages of the letter in a post.