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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Logarock
Dont waste your time with these trolls. They have hardedned their hearts to the true. They have made the choice to see only what they desire.
God forbid they back their claims up with scripture. Then they might actually learn something.
You've already doomed yerselves straight to hell with your excellent exegesis into the significance of human sacrifice.
Trust me, I can back up everything I say here in more ways than biblical. But it would be rejected by default anyway.
Common sense. How about common sense.
If it was your own son up there on the cross, would you still call it an acceptable sacrifice?
Mat 16:25 "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it."
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
If it was your own son up there on the cross, would you still call it an acceptable sacrifice?
If my son chose to die so that the people he loved might live, not only would I accept the sacrifice, I would honor it.
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Logarock
Dont waste your time with these trolls. They have hardedned their hearts to the true. They have made the choice to see only what they desire.
God forbid they back their claims up with scripture. Then they might actually learn something.
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
If it was your own son up there on the cross, would you still call it an acceptable sacrifice?
If my son chose to die so that the people he loved might live, not only would I accept the sacrifice, I would honor it.
OK. How many people did Jesus save by being crucified? Last time I checked, minions of Christians were killed because of him. Not counting all the millions killed in the name of Jesus by the Church and her kings.
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
If it was your own son up there on the cross, would you still call it an acceptable sacrifice?
If my son chose to die so that the people he loved might live, not only would I accept the sacrifice, I would honor it.
OK. How many people did Jesus save by being crucified? Last time I checked, minions of Christians were killed because of him. Not counting all the millions killed in the name of Jesus by the Church and her kings.
"There is no love greater than laying down your life for your friends", is how Jesus put it.
There is no sacrifice greater than laying your life down for the ones you love.
1. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
2. To forfeit (one thing) for another thing considered to be of greater value.
www.thefreedictionary.com...
originally posted by: ketsuko
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
If it was your own son up there on the cross, would you still call it an acceptable sacrifice?
If my son chose to die so that the people he loved might live, not only would I accept the sacrifice, I would honor it.
OK. How many people did Jesus save by being crucified? Last time I checked, minions of Christians were killed because of him. Not counting all the millions killed in the name of Jesus by the Church and her kings.
Now that's an excellent example of moving the goalposts. What's you next amazing trick?
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
If it was your own son up there on the cross, would you still call it an acceptable sacrifice?
If my son chose to die so that the people he loved might live, not only would I accept the sacrifice, I would honor it.
OK. How many people did Jesus save by being crucified? Last time I checked, minions of Christians were killed because of him. Not counting all the millions killed in the name of Jesus by the Church and her kings.
Dont play dumb. You know very well the premise of Christianity; that Jesus saved those who believed in Him from eternal condemnation in Hell. Sooner or later all face physical death.
The Roman Catholic Church carried out most of the genocide you speak of.
Dont change the subject that you raised.
Understand that God is love, and that it was love that saved Jesus' life that dreadful night nearly 2000 years ago. At one point the Roman officer by the cross understand that Jesus is innocent and proclaim he is a son of the gods (i.e. righteous). Seeing he has stopped breathing resulting from a condition any legionaire would know well, and also would know how to treat by profession. Jesus had a ruptured lung possibly from being beaten senseless in Annas basement, that was also why he was silent like a lamb, it's hard to speak when your breath is getting shorter and shorter-- and unless you pierce a hole in the chest and releave the built-up pressure and drain the chest cavity for excess blood and condensated water, the patient will die. Do exactly as the centurion did at Calvary and the chances are good for survival. Restitution: 2-3 days. That is the Truth my friend, and it wasn't even the greatest act of love that was performed there by the crosses. Had it not been for Joshef, the rich man, Jesus' body would have been carried to Gehenna (translated Hell) and cremated. The Arimathean bought Jesus' corpus and hid it in linen he bought at the spot and with his servants they transported Jesus to a cave. Rosemary and a few other women come rushing to assistance with remedies to disinfect and treat wounds, not embalming remedies which would have been the logic choice if Jesus was dead. Later came the Essene healers dressed in their usual white cloathes to help out with the resurrection. Then they cut his hair and beard which had been growing continually all his life, so that few would recognise him.
To verfy His death, the guard pierced His abdominal cavity to witness the clotted blood cells and separated plasma run from the wound.
Tension pneumothorax is a serious and potentially life-threatening condition that may be caused by traumatic injury [...] In this type of pneumothorax, air enters the chest cavity, but cannot escape. This greatly increased pressure in the pleural space causes the lung to collapse completely, compresses the heart, and pushes the heart and associated blood vessels toward the unaffected side.
Hemopneumothorax, or haemopneumothorax, is a medical term describing the combination of two conditions: pneumothorax, or air in the chest cavity, and hemothorax (also called hæmothorax), or blood in the chest cavity. [...] If the chest wall, and thus the pleural space, is punctured, blood, air or both can enter the pleural space. Air/blood rushes into the space in order to equalise the pressure with that of the atmosphere. As a result the fluid is disrupted and the two membranes no longer adhere to each other. When the rib cage moves out, it no longer pulls the lungs with it. Thus the lungs cannot expand, the pressure in the lungs never drops and no air is pulled into the bronchi. Respiration is not possible. The affected lung, which has a great deal of elastic tissue, shrivels in what is referred to as a collapsed lung.
originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest
To verfy His death, the guard pierced His abdominal cavity to witness the clotted blood cells and separated plasma run from the wound.
Ummm, no.
It was blood and water. My husband had an pleural empyema a few years ago, and they stuck a tube in his chest and drained it out. Liters of it. It was not "blood clots and separated plasma". It was watery, yellowish, bloody fluid.
Caused by a broken rib and pneumonia.
He nearly died. I sat there and watched the fluid being drained from his chest.
This silly idea that Jesus was stabbed 'through the heart' is ridiculous.
Otherwise, this thread is all yours, guys. Just don't tell lies.
originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
With Jesus so close to death and being so badly disfigured, how could he walk around in such a state?
The spear thrust would have been straight to the heart.
Ok, Ill acknowledge that it was probable that Jesus was experiencing either pleural effusion, pericardial effusion, or both.
originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: MaigretThat is one version.
The verses from Daniel refer to 'setting up' and 'placing' the Abomination of Desolation. Not the abomination of stopping the daily sacrifices, in the Temple, resulting in desolation, as you seem to be suggesting.
Here are some that say it differently,
English Standard Version
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
New American Standard Bible
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
King James Bible
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.Jesus interpreted it to fit the situation.
What the Son pointed to in 'when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place' was for those in Judea to flee immediately, stopping for nothing!
You have to understand that there is no one definitive version of Daniel.