Croatian Constitutional Court Upholds Mandatory Child Vaccination

reply to post by Leonidas

For now, I will let the science speak for itself.

Yes, you do that. It will invariably lead to deafening silence. A good thing in this case.



Invariably, vaccine apologists will try to depict those who make an informed choice and refuse vaccination for themselves and their children as "nutty anti-vaccine nuts" which they will follow closely with calls to a greater "responsibility", whatever that may mean in their minds.

Unfortunately, the "science" they appeal to is nothing but a collection of assumptions.



From a logical standpoint, vaccinations are problematic to me.

When a person receives a vaccine, apparently, the body produces antibodies against a particular germ and this is a good thing. On the other hand, for most diseases, when a person is given a blood test to see if he is infected, the standard for infection is the 'presence of antibodies.'

This means that you are asked to believe that if the vaccine produces antibodies, it is a healthy sign. But if the body produces them naturally, then beware, you are ill.

Interesting to say the least.



Is there a reason the vaccine industry never discusses the fact that for years adjuvants like those used in most vaccines, such as squalene, have been injected into lab animals to trigger rheumatoid arthritis and other autoimmune diseases?
A conscious decision to keep the public ignorant of the ethical dilemma of then recommending their use for injection into newborns, infants, and toddlers maybe?

If anyone does the research, and scours peer-reviewed websites such as PubMed or PlosMedecine with due diligence, they will eventually reach the conclusion that prior receipt of [insert vaccine] is often associated with increased risk of the related medically attended illness.

The very idea that vaccines have eradicated disease is simply another unproven, naked assumption which ignores all the other factors which are most certainly involved, such as cleaner water, advanced sewage systems, nutrition, fresher food, and a decrease in poverty.

Lets take the flu for example, and I choose this example chiefly because of the scaremongering surrounding it.

I’m pretty sure you don’t know a single person who has died of the flu, and if you think you do, I can almost guarantee you that the diagnosis was not confirmed in a way that ruled out the 150-200 infectious pathogens that cause flu-like syndromes, none of which would be “covered” by the vaccine.

Now, I could sit here and throw peer-reviewed studies around, PubMed Studies Influenza, which would obviously be a waste of time, as vaccine apologists - I have found - only appeal to "science" when it suits them.

I'll tell you what, since you will not be wasting your time with any material that doesn't readily confirm what you hope to propagandise, I have another suggestion - here, argue with him:

Chief Vaccine Officer at the FDA : “there is no evidence that any influenza vaccine thus far developed is effective in preventing or mitigating any attack of influenza.”

In the spring of 2009, with only 20 confirmed cases of swine flu, yes that’s 20, the WHO declared swine flu a level 6 pandemic. Sounds ominous, the highest threat-level existing, makes you want to hide in the basement doesn't it!?

At the same time, it quietly revised its own definition of “level 6 pandemic,” so as to exclude 'severe devastation' and 'large numbers of deaths'.

So a sham and a con, really. Millions caught on and it was a devastating defeat for WHO, the CDC, the medical cartel, and vaccine apologists such as yourself.

Incidentally, I have never even had regular flu. I'm sure it is due to my healthy lifestyle and refusal to take any form of vaccination. Having said that, as I have already mentioned, I am tolerant of other people's decisions, so feel free to take your shots for every vaccine that comes up on the market.

What you would do well to avoid though, because it will just cause those of us who do know what this is all about to ignore you (surely something you wish to avoid, armed as you are with precious vaccine information that will save the world?), is pontificating on what we should or should't do based on the collection of naked, groundless assumptions you are calling "science" - discrediting the very term in the process.

reply to post by Leonidas

Personally, I did not come to the "to Vaccinate or not to Vaccinate" debate with a dog in fight. I wanted to know what was the right thing to do? I didn't "Pick a side" and then looked for evidence to support that choice.

Absolutely. As evidenced by your very first post...

It is thinking like that that puts other people at risk.

It is fine for one nutty non-vaccination nut to avoid it and have safe children because that child is surrounded by other kids that wont get the measles, mumps, rubella, etc. etc. etc. That was fine when there were only a few of the nutters out there...now with so many people afraid of science, that "cocoon" of health is breaking down and risking the population.

Beyond the personal right to be ignorant of science and reality, it is irresponsible to your family and your community when you buy into the junk-science, non-science of the anti-vaccine fear-mongers.

Deny Ignorance!

Sigh..... [yawn]

My children are partially vaccinated, the first had an unheard of reaction in BC, and was covered with raised huge hives all over his body from a supposedly harmless vaccination, and always reacted horribly to all of them. The doctors stopped recommending them at that point and in the end he was vaccinated just prior to kindergarden, in the hospital, having been given antihistime for days, with full emergency response nearby if needed. But, when the last little guy, who was behaving normal and playing sit up games, was vaccinated, he began to exhibit his physical apraxia, lack of muscle control, and walked well over a year, didnt even sit up for months past the date. I asked the doctor if there was a possibility this was due to the vaccinations and she said, she didn't know.

I'm a conscious objector now, all my kids go to school.

I've had the experience of seeing them harm healthy children.

And so, don't care who is a fanatic about trying to "FORCE" anyone. Forcing someone is assault, (and if the child is sick or dies), manslaughter.

I don't stand under you, or the government. They are my minions and otherwise they are a rogue force that I will perform a citizens arrest on should they walk near me.

You can't take my body by force and do as you wish to me against my will PERIOD.

My children are given instructions that if they ever try to line them up with a nurse and needles, TO RUN HOME.

As for being healthy, I get sick all the time, as do the kids, and we recycle and relapse from them, for probably 6 weeks or more and kids miss a lot of school. Never changes. Vitamins don't change this. Vaccines and flu shots don't change this. I stopped those years ago because the 2 i had gave me the flu within a few days, and it was lulu.

So, nothing seems to stop us from being sick alot. Every single time something comes out, whether its a virrulent cold/flu or the measle epidemic in the Fraser Valley recently, I always blame the PTB and their Big Pharma test tube creations. I blame the PTB for every single thing on earth.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


I don't think anyone is actually suggesting the number of vaccinations in the US is declining.theyre suggesting that more people are opting to skip vaccinating their children. What you fail to address is that while the number if vaccinations has increased that number is not keeping pace with population growth. In a country like Croatia that difference is only about 140 people who are not vaccinated. In the US where slightly over 1% does not vaccinate a population of over 60 million children ages 0-14 that's a minimum of 600,000 children who haven't been vaccinated. Numbers are great but the context of those numbers is better.

D377MC
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

'Pretty much no longer present' sounds extremely reassuring.

Actually, multi-dose vaccines still contain squalene, by the FDA's own admission. Not that it matters really, because as I said, I don't use the stuff. Truth be told, I never get sick either.

Of course, I'm not suggesting cause and effect here....

Enjoy your thread.

You probably don't get sick because your parents vaccinated you when you were a child....The flu shot every year is not what we are talking about here buddy!

So, yes you did get vaccinated and it kept you healthy through today...Congrats on that!

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


Two sentences, two groundless assumptions, both wrong. Not a bad first post.

You are wasting your time, no-one is listening to the 'you must be vaccinated at all costs' crowd anymore, as evidenced by the unpopularity of the topic.

For the others, an interesting interview.

Interview of former vaccine researcher

D377MC
reply to post by Leonidas

 

....
For now, I will let the science speak for itself.
....

Yes, you do that. It will invariably lead to deafening silence. A good thing in this case.

India and the SE Asia region of Who are declared Polio free

And pretty much all due to the oral vaccine.

Science has spoken....and lots of other people too.....it works.

4 diseases making a comeback thanks to anti-vaxxers - congratulations - your programme of fear and ignorance is working - you are an effective method for disease to increase.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


If i believed in god I'd give you an Amen for that.

peter vlar
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting the number of vaccinations in the US is declining.theyre suggesting that more people are opting to skip vaccinating their children. What you fail to address is that while the number if vaccinations has increased that number is not keeping pace with population growth. In a country like Croatia that difference is only about 140 people who are not vaccinated. In the US where slightly over 1% does not vaccinate a population of over 60 million children ages 0-14 that's a minimum of 600,000 children who haven't been vaccinated. Numbers are great but the context of those numbers is better.

First off you must distribute that properly across the USA and then weigh the average against those of your surroundings which drastically reduces your odds. Unless of course you live in an area where vaccination is low, in which case actual immunity rates will be drastically higher. If you are "immunized" an in such a region your chances are still extremely low. Furthermore you must realize that your vaccination schedule does not guarantee any sort of immunization and that immunizations not acquired naturally weaken over time so you must routinely inject yourself with the weakened virus or bacteria to gain a similar result as those with the naturally acquired immunity.

Also your whole 98% vaccination figure is pretty much bunk;
www.cdc.gov...

MMR (1+) DTP/Dtap (3+)† Polio (3+) Hib (3+)§ HepB (3+) Varicella (1+) PCV (4+) Rotavirus* HepA (2+)*
2001 91.4 94.3 89.4 93 88.9 76.3
2002 91.6 94.9 90.2 93.1 89.9 80.6
2003 93 96 91.6 93.9 92.4 84.8 35.8
2004 93 95.9 91.6 93.5 92.4 87.5 43.4
2005 91.5 96.1 91.7 93.9 92.9 87.9 53.7
2006 92.3 95.8 92.8 93.4 93.3 89.2 68.4
2007 92.3 95.5 92.6 92.6 92.7 90 75.3
2008 92.1 96.2 93.6 90.9 93.5 90.7 80.1 40.4
2009 90 95 92.8 54.8 92.4 89.6 80.4 43.9 46.6
2010 91.5 95 93.3 66.8 91.8 90.4 83.3 59.2 49.7
2011 91.6 95.5 93.9 80.4 91 90.8 84.4 67.3 52.2
2012 90.8 94.3 92.8 80.9 89.7 90.2 81.9 68.6 53

So now you realize that vaccination rates as a percentage of population (ie:population growth) are actually increasing you should probably cease spouting such disinformation.

Do you have any data that quantifies the magnitude of unreported cases of measles or polio before this golden age of data collection? Even drastic adjustments to reported deaths and disfigurements from such cases do very little in the way of proving that vaccination programs as they are now should be mandated by law without prior consent of the individual. Unless, that is, you locate some very convincing methods which do so.

Most of the articles linked to in this article don't have any science and are merely peer pressure articles to increase vaccination rates. The CFR article even misrepresents data and draws incredibly unscientific conclusions from their results as to the how the magnitude of cases increased so drastically. honestly, they don't even mention the actual vaccines people were given, their manufacturers, or even a percentage of the vaccinated population which contracted the disease thereafter.

Are there any other stats You, the OP, or Leonidas would like to make up and present as fact or "science?"

-FBB

Aloysius the Gaul

D377MC
reply to post by Leonidas

 

....
For now, I will let the science speak for itself.
....

Yes, you do that. It will invariably lead to deafening silence. A good thing in this case.

India and the SE Asia region of Who are declared Polio free

And pretty much all due to the oral vaccine.

Science has spoken....and lots of other people too.....it works.

4 diseases making a comeback thanks to anti-vaxxers - congratulations - your programme of fear and ignorance is working - you are an effective method for disease to increase.

edit on 27-3-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

Ummmmmmmm . . . . .

Your article about the 4 diseases making a comback NEVER provides information as to whether non-vaccinated individuals were at the source of the outbreaks. They merely say hey these diseases are popping back up and its all "anti-vaxxer's" fault. It is disingenuous reporting to not provide such statistics.

The article says that 3 were vaccinated, 2 were not, and 4 were too young to receive a vaccination. The other 13 cases of measles and origins of the outbreak is unreleased data.

The trader joe's measles case involved two individuals and no information as to vaccination status . . . .

The two cases in Illinois also exempt any information concerning vaccination status . . . .

From California:
www.mercurynews.com...

More than half of the statewide cases were patients who had not been vaccinated.

So no information as to what sort of percentage huh . . . . but a significant portion of these infections are in people who are vaccinated. Whatever, lets blame it on the immigrants . . . .

You do little to no due diligence in spamming your rhetoric. The fact is a large number of these cases are infecting the so called immunized.



Would you please provide links that actually verify that the people got sick due to not being vaccinated?

-FBB

FriedBabelBroccoli
[Ummmmmmmm . . . . .

Your article about the 4 diseases making a comback NEVER provides information as to whether non-vaccinated individuals were at the source of the outbreaks. They merely say hey these diseases are popping back up and its all "anti-vaxxer's" fault. It is disingenuous reporting to not provide such statistics.

Would you please provide links that actually verify that the people got sick due to not being vaccinated?

Who said that is the case??

Vaccinated people CAN get the diseases - vaccines are normally NOT 100% effective.

However in a vaccinated population there are not enough CARRIERS for there to be significant disruption of the disease chain - this is herd immunity.

However that said there are various links in het article to specific outbreaks that make comment about the vaccination status of individuals affected, eg for measles:

Four of the affected children were too young to have been vaccinated; three who had been vaccinated were 13 to 15 months old and two others had not been vaccinated by parental choice, the Health Department said. The affected adults range in age from 22 to 63 years.

for whooping cough:

The researchers of the Pediatrics study compared the number of intentionally unvaccinated children who entered kindergarten from 2005 to 2010 to the onset of the whooping cough outbreak in 2010. They were able to identify 39 regional clusters of kids with non-medical reasons for being unvaccinated, and two clusters that were significantly related to rapid spread of whooping cough. Children who are intentionally not vaccinated and become infected with diseases like measles or pertussis, can pass the illness on to those who can’t be immunized, such as babies under six months and those with compromised immune systems, such as cancer patients.

Chicken pox:

Duwve also told the Star-Tribune that the chickenpox outbreak started with a child who was unvaccinated, but that even children who receive chickenpox vaccinations might be at risk since the vaccination only works 90 percent of the time.

the 3 links above were all in the original article.

For mumps this extract is in the original article:

In 2011, there was a mumps outbreak on the University of California at Berkeley campus, with 29 reported cases confirmed by the CDC. The source of the outbreak was thought to be an unvaccinated student who had spent time traveling in Western Europe where there is still a presence of mumps.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


thank you for proving there are far more children who are not immunized or under vaccinated than I had thought. And not just more, but more by a factor of 10( I only claimed 1% not 2% as you seem to think)> So lets add at least 6 million more to the number I stated earlier. FYI I wasn't making up facts like you stated...though ironic that you make an unsubstantiated personal attack as rebuttal to my unsubstantiated claim, sometimes people make errors. That's all I did. See I was trying to reply and read while spending time with my vaccinated daughter so it was a minor distraction. Get down off your high horse before you hit your head. I've seen it before and it hurts like hell when you bounce those springs so high you hit your head on the ceiling.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


The whooping cough case is simply hearsay and assumptions
healthland.time.com...

At first, the outbreak was blamed on waning immunity to the whooping cough vaccine, but new research published in the journal Pediatrics reports that the high number of children who were intentionally unvaccinated also contributed to the rapid spread of the infection.

there are hints that measles cases may also be rising due to parental vaccine refusals.

The entire article is 100% bulls#$%, this MAY be a cause behind such and such is NOT SCIENTIFIC, it is BS.

I already commented on the measles, no information is really given other than the vaccination status of the children. 3 were vaccinated, 4 were too young, and 2 were not . . . hmmm yes blame the unvaccinated because the vaccinated are contracting it sounds like a good plan.

Chicken-pox . . . . you mean three of the only four days I ever missed school for because I was itchy?
www.huffingtonpost.com...

Duwve also told the Star-Tribune that the chickenpox outbreak started with a child who was unvaccinated, but that even children who receive chickenpox vaccinations might be at risk since the vaccination only works 90 percent of the time. It can also occur in a less-severe form in children who have been properly vaccinated, Duwve noted.

Chicken-pox is not something to worry about unless you don't contract it is a child, then you will actually be old enough to be informed on the pro's and con's of the vaccine vs natural immunization. I am cool with that.


So what we have here are large segments of the vaccinated population still contracting the infections, and yet you constantly spout this nonsense about diseases being eradicated due to vaccination programs . . .

You are not making a strong case that because overall vaccination rates have increased over the years as a percentage of the population that non-vaxxers are causing more people to get sick. In fact you should actually be seeing less and less outbreaks due to the herd immunity, and yet it seems that merely traveling to foreign locations (even if you are vaccinated) is enough to cause outbreaks among the vaccinated.

But, I assume you feel really good being told everything will be okay if you get a shot

Surely your response will go something like, " THE SCIENCE! THE SCIENCE! THE SCIENCE!," but in reality you are extremely biased toward a particular outcome and ignore anything that suggests the contrary. I am honestly astounded that a few hundred cases of non-lethal infections cause you such anxiety.

Perhaps you lot always fear mongering over vaccines should check this new study out. "THE SCIENCE," I say, "THE SCIENCE."
Anti-Anxiety Drugs Tied to Higher Mortality
well.blogs.nytimes.com...

A large study has linked several common anti-anxiety drugs and sleeping pills to an increased risk of death, although it’s not certain the drugs were the cause.

By your logic this clearly means anxiety medication is absolutely the cause of increased deaths!

Lol

-FBB

Chrisfishenstein

D377MC
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

'Pretty much no longer present' sounds extremely reassuring.

Actually, multi-dose vaccines still contain squalene, by the FDA's own admission. Not that it matters really, because as I said, I don't use the stuff. Truth be told, I never get sick either.

Of course, I'm not suggesting cause and effect here....

Enjoy your thread.

You probably don't get sick because your parents vaccinated you when you were a child....The flu shot every year is not what we are talking about here buddy!

So, yes you did get vaccinated and it kept you healthy through today...Congrats on that!

Yep - I was vaccinated back in the 60's when there WAS a lot more mercury in vaccines - I can still remember the needles!!

My own children were vaccinated in the 1990's.

And I get annual flu shots too.

FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

The whooping cough case is simply hearsay and assumptions
healthland.time.com...
.......
At first, the outbreak was blamed on waning immunity to the whooping cough vaccine, but new research published in the journal Pediatrics reports that the high number of children who were intentionally unvaccinated also contributed to the rapid spread of the infection.....

there are hints that measles cases may also be rising due to parental vaccine refusals. ......
The entire article is 100% bulls#$%, this MAY be a cause behind such and such is NOT SCIENTIFIC, it is BS.

lol....."....but new research published......"

well done for quoting your own debunking!

Aloysius the Gaul

FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

The whooping cough case is simply hearsay and assumptions
healthland.time.com...
.......
At first, the outbreak was blamed on waning immunity to the whooping cough vaccine, but new research published in the journal Pediatrics reports that the high number of children who were intentionally unvaccinated also contributed to the rapid spread of the infection.....

there are hints that measles cases may also be rising due to parental vaccine refusals. ......
The entire article is 100% bulls#$%, this MAY be a cause behind such and such is NOT SCIENTIFIC, it is BS.

lol....."....but new research published......"

well done for quoting your own debunking!

edit on 27-3-2014 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

The new research shows that unnvaccinated people ALSO contributed.
The actual cause or driver was never identified.
It is not precise and not a good measure for making such claims.
That is why the doctors say MAY or MAY HAVE . . . . there is no debunking involved, just misinterpreting statements.

-FBB

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Yes - deliberately unvaccinated children ALSO contributed.

Thank you.