Antichrist = Nero Ceasar = 666

Καισαρι Νερωνι (Greek Gematria)

Caesar Nero

342 + 1015 = 1357


It appears as though you are using Latin for your 666 calculation and of course Latin doesn't have a numeral system built into their vocab. Therefore the 666 is contrived to fit that number. They used Roman Numerals for their numbering system.

There is only Hebrew and Greek Gematria the other such as Latin or English are invalid. Latin came well after the Greek and Hebrew languages.

In case you want the Hebrew here you go:

קיסר נרו

Caesar Nero

370 + 256 = 626


There are Final Letters such as Nun, Mem, Tzadik, Peh, and Caph. Some choose to use the Sofit values of those letters and others don't. Early Hebrew didn't have final letters as this is more modern Hebrew dating back to about the 2nd century CE.

Originally posted by Arcane Demesne

Originally posted by NuTroll
the Antichrist = Satan. Why is that so hard to understand. He is kicked out of heaven in revelations 12;7-8, and comes for the 2nd part of the 7 year tribluation in revelations 13.

I thought it said Lucifer (Light Bearer [or morning star if you wish]), which was also "Jesus"s name (morning star), no?

case closed. Jesus was the anti christ. haha

Actually Satan mimicks Jesus, since his very title anti christ means Instead of/Replacement Christ (in the greek). His entire goal was the upseating of The mercy seat in ezekiel 28, and his vanity proved to be his undoing.

All angels are referenced as Stars. see job 38:7

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Isaiah 14:12

That Hebrew name there is Helel הילל

Helel means shining One. There is no Lucifer name in scripture. That set of verses refers to the King of Babylon and is not refering to a being called Satan or Lucifer

Helel - This proper name is a hapax legomenon describing the King of Babylon (Isa 14:12) - L.J.C.

Helel - n.m. appell. shining one, epith. of King of Babylon. (pg 237) (Isa 14:12). - BDB Lexicon

I'm sure you would find my articles on Satan more informative then what you might currently understand.

www.numberman.net...

www.numberman.net...

Originally posted by NuTroll
Actually Satan mimicks Jesus, since his very title anti christ means Instead of/Replacement Christ (in the greek). His entire goal was the upseating of The mercy seat in ezekiel 28, and his vanity proved to be his undoing.

All angels are referenced as Stars. see job 38:7

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

If all angels are refered to as stars, isn't that confusing if the polar opposites are named after the same star.

NumberMan has a different way of looking at it...I'll check out those links, thanks.

Edit:
NumberMan, thank you for those links (I assume you were the author, ). They were VERY informative and interesting. It's amazing how much scripture has changed, when a language has to be bridged.

Thank you again.

[edit on 1/16/2006 by Arcane Demesne]

Thanks for the kinds words. Yes I wrote the articles and will keep adding more to them and new articles as well.

Arcane I was unable to respond to your PM as I guess this site requires 20 posts minimum to do that.

As far as written books I'm not aware of any. Some explain Satan as a helper of God using the "Satan standing at his right to resist him", others say its a term meaning something inside us that drives us to do evil etc...


I like to show people the actual Hebrew/Greek veses and highlight the word and lay them all out so people know what they are reading and explain it that way rather then quoting King James like many sites do to make their claims of this or that.

Hope you get a chance to look over my other articles as well and feel free to ask me any questions. Hopefully I'll get these 20 posts out of the way and can use the PM function.


Thanks

NM

Isaiah 14 is definitely a reference to the annointed Cherub since Nebuchadnezzer was NOT completely destroyed and thrown into a pit. Not even close. The prophecy would have failed since after the 7 year curse the King of Babylon made ammends with God and even got his kingdom back. Read the latter half of the Book of Daniel. Satan is often mentioned in relation to tyrants and empires since destroying the body of the church is the second key part of his great offensive (destroying the Messianic line was the the first). Note that Satan is obviously a created being subject to God, but performs his task best as an unwilling one (the Manichaen duality some Christians believe in is thus obviously heretical). Also the term Heylel is constructed to mimick in certain aspects the Babylonian deity Baal's titles ( Prince and God of light, etc.) whom the OT prophets were very unfond of. Gerome aparently picked this up in his Vulgate and tried to connect the covering cherub (Satan) to a specific God widely worshipped in Rome and Northern Europe at that time who was related to Marduk (that's Balder/ Baldur who you can read about in the Northmen's legends. He was often identified with Zeus and Hercules and is obviously also connected with the Babylonian deity I mentioned above). Satan was also used in three different ways in ancient times- plural, singular, and as a pronoun. Satan first becomes a physical entity in Job as many of you know, there are mentions of "Satans" frequently in other religions (ie:Islam, ancient greek's "Titans", etc.) these "Satans" when mentioned in scripture are widely held by conservative Christian scholars to be related to the events in Genesis 6 (retold in the Apocryphal book of Enoch which is based on the older and lost Book of Noah).


[edit on 18-1-2006 by Nakash]

Who am I to argue with Lexicons and Hebrew Scholars?


Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

Satan is a Golden City and an oppressor?

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Man = איש

Isaiah 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

Is Satan a Family Man? sons, nephews ...

Helel means Shining One, the name Lucifer as many use for "Satan" was added in to the bible. Its a Latin name so whats it doing in Hebrew/Greek context when it came after the Greek/Hebrew scriptures? (I already know im not really asking)

The verse is dual reference. Nearly all of Isaiah's writings have the pattern. He's a prophet after all isn't he ? The prophecy would FAIL taking into account your exegesis, Nebuchadnezzer was NOT:

"brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. "

"cast out of (the) grave like an abominable branch"

and so forth.

Here's what happened in actuality:

And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the Most High, and I praised and honored him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: and all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Daniel 4:34, 35.

Not only was he forgiven- he even got Tyre as a "reward" from God! Now do you know why the Prince of Tyre is compared to Satan? Because Nebuchadnezzer is a type of Christ. It's all a parable (and a beautiful one at that).

[edit on 18-1-2006 by Nakash]

Numberman,

Can you plz help me with this,

Do you say the Fallen one's where the sons of god and that these were physicle giants? (not in the metaphorical sense ie of great minds)

who are the Fallen one's without power, the lord of the flies?

who are the Fallen one's who seed our women?

who are the Fallen one's who do beastiality?

I keep getting confused with the Nephelim, could you plz explain this a little more to me .

...ian

I'll get to your question after his Nakash.


To answer your question Iamian:

In both Genesis and Enoch these beings:

The Sons of God/Watchers/Hosts of Heaven/Serpent (not snake but beings) - These are the same thing using different names for them.

They are not snakes even though they are called serpents. They are a paticular class probably meaning Seraphim.

In Enoch 20:7 Gabriel, one of the holy angels, who is over Paradise and the Serpents and the Cherubim. Remiel, one of the holy angels, whom God set over those who rise.


Came down to have relations with Earth Women. They had intercourse and also taught mankind things that were meant to remain secret.

Enoch 69:4 The name of the first Jeqôn: that is, the one who led astray [all] the sons of God, and brought them down to the earth, and led them astray through the daughters of men. And the second was named Asbeêl: he imparted to the holy sons of God evil counsel, and led them astray so that they defiled their bodies with the daughters of men. And the third was named Gâdreêl: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed [the weapons of death to the sons of men] the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons of death to the children of men. And from his hand they have proceeded against those who dwell…

In that group of vereses we see now that there was no devil named Satan/Lucifer, but rather a serpent named Gâdreêl who in his part was responsible for misleading eve. The others did their part in furthering the corruption.

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

Hence this scripture in Genesis:

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

This scripture is where Christendom thinks a being named Lucifer is responsible for this activity when all this is is one of many serpent beings whom misled all of mankind. They have sex - hence the reason there is now enmity between the womans seed and the serpents seed. Seed means Semen/ Lineage.


These Serpent/Watchers/Sons of God when breeding with earth women created offspring referred to as Giants/Nephelim. Wicked spirits today on the earth are these dead Nephelim whom were part human and part "sons of God"

In Enoch 15:8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the Holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.]


These wicked spirits still wonder the earth. The serpent are not the same as them rather they are the fathers of these spirits.


If you read my Nephelim article you will see I point out that this activity of inbreeding continues throughout the scriptures even after the Flood. If you put 2 and 2 together you then understand why Alien abductions revolve around sexual experiments. They will be doing this until the time is up.

When you realise its a group you begin to understand the following verses better:

Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

Matt 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

Matt 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Referring to the Jewish religious leaders or was he aware of something more then what appears on the surface)


As I explain the Baal names (there are quite a few) are meant to mean idols. Lord of the Flies means your Idol you worship is on par with a heap of dung because it's not a real entitiy any more then people who worship Shiva or whomever. Its the same concept its an idol with no spirit attached. It might attract spirits but in the end is nothing more then a carved image.


Hope that clears it up some.

Thank you Numberman,

It does seem these things are upon us today, i'm just thankfull there are those of you who dare to care
thank you again,

...ian

[edit on 1/19/2006 by iamian]

To Nakash


It’s hard to give you an exact reply as I haven’t read your entire reasoning comparing those 2 Books and the content surrounding them. I’ll reply to the best of my understanding of this Concept/Doctrine based on where I think your taking it. So lets start with the Obvious.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. -NJKV

Brought down to “hell” well lets correct that word as its soo Christianity. The word is “Sheol” שאול – meaning Grave. All people have a destiny with this place.

Psalm 49:14 They are penned in Sheol like sheep, Death will lead them to pasture, and those who are honest will rule over them. In the morning all trace of them will be gone, Sheol will be their home.

So where is Nebuchadnezzar even though he repented? Also is "Lucifer" in this grave place called "Sheol” שאול

If he is how is it so? It makes clear he is bound and thrown into an entirely different place in Revelation called the "Abyss"

Αβυσσον (Alpha/Beta/Upsilon/Sigma/Sigma/Omicron/Nu) - meaning Bottomless - Strongs #0012

Revelation 20:3 He hurled him into the Abyss and shut the entrance and sealed it over him, to make sure he would not lead the nations astray again until the thousand years had passed. At the end of that time he must be released, but only for a short while. (the english word there is Abyss, but the Greek word is the one I gave you above and occurs in only)

Some translations might read Bottomless "Pit", but Pit isn't present there its just Bottomless/Void

Also how can Nebuchadnezzar take an army against the King of Tyre if the King of Tyre is referring to "Satan" - that would be like throwing a snowball at the sun.

Ezekiel 26:2 "Son of man, Tyre has rejoiced over the fall of Jerusalem, saying, 'Ha! She who controlled the rich trade routes to the east has been broken, and I am the heir! Because she has been destroyed, I will become wealthy!'

Ezekiel 26:7 'For the Lord Yahweh says this, "From the north, I shall bring Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, King of Kings, down on Tyre with horses, chariots, cavalry and an enormous army.

Ezekiel 27:3 "and say to Tyre, 'You who are situated at the entrance of the sea, merchant of the peoples on many coastlands, thus says the Lord GOD: "O Tyre, you have said, 'I am perfect in beauty.'

Ezekiel 27:8 The people of Sidon and Arvad were your oarsmen. The sages of Tyre were aboard, serving as sailors.

Also after this verse it moves onto Egypt. Why haven't any doctrines been established with those laments?

Ezekiel 19:1 Moreover take thou up a lamentation for the princes of Israel,

Eze 25:2 Son of man, set thy face against the Ammonites, and prophesy against them;

Eze 27:2 Now, thou son of man, take up a lamentation for Tyrus;

Eze 29:2 Son of man, set thy face against Pharaoh king of Egypt, and prophesy against him, and against all Egypt:

So take it from there and connect why you feel Isaiah doesn't refer to a King of Babylon and then the Ezekiel context refers to "Lucifer" when the context surrounding both of these is purely earthly related. Again re-read the posts above and tell me why the King of Babylon (if this is Lucifer) makes references to nephews, sons etc..

Numberman, I never said the verse doesn't refer to Nebuchadnezzer, I merely said it is dual reference. "Bring my son out of Egypt" has at first glance nothing to do with Christ returning from Egypt, but it expresses a deeper truce within the scriptures made allusion to by Matthew for example. Sheol last time I checked meant could mean one of three:

1)Abraham's bossom (where all OT Saints were kept, now empty)

2)The grave (literal death)

3) Hebrew synonym for Gahanna ((kuta, Hell in the NT) which is rarely mentioned in the OT (Sheol is mentioned 54 times, yet Sheol is of less relevence than Gahanna)

The "BOTTOMLESS PIT" is not Hell, or Hades, the place of abode of the "Spirits" of wicked men and women until the resurrection of the "Wicked Dead." See the Chart of "The Underworld." Neither is it "Tartarus" the "Prison House" of the "Fallen Angels" (Jude 6-7), nor the "Lake of Fire," the "Final Hell" (Gehenna), Matt. 25:41, but it is the place of confinement of the DEMONS, who are not Satan's Angels but a class of "disembodied Spirits," supposed by many to be the "disembodied spirits" of the inhabitants of the Pre-Adamite Earth, who, as they have liberty and opportunity, as in the days of Christ, try to re-embody themselves again in human bodies. They are wicked, unclean, vicious, and have power to derange both mind and body. Matt. 12:22; 15:22. Luke 4:35; 8:26-36; 9:42. They are the "Familiar Spirits" of the Old Testament and the "Seducing Spirits" of which Paul warned Timothy. I. Tim. 4:1. They wander about in desolate places. Christ used them to illustrate the condition of the Jewish people in the "last days" when "Demoniacal Power" shall be increased over them SEVENFOLD.

Taken From Clarence Larkin's classic study on Revelations.

Not too much a fan of the Pre-Adamite earth theory. These are the Nephilim or the unclean spirits related to them of Genesis 6 most probably.


Either way, the verse implies a damnable fate which never befell Nebuchadnezzer.

Also how can Nebuchadnezzar take an army against the King of Tyre if the King of Tyre is referring to "Satan" - that would be like throwing a snowball at the sun.

Nebuchadnezzer was a "type" of Christ:

The Story of Nebuchadnezzar in the Bible is a Parable.

The key events are:
God's role for Nebuchadnezzar, He is given dominion over all the world. [Jeremiah 27; Ezra 1; etc.;see below.]
Nebuchadnezzar 's conquest of Tyre
Nebuchadnezzar 's rulership and destruction of Jerusalem and
Nebuchadnezzar 's conquest of Egypt.

In this parable the characters or elements are:
Nebuchadnezzar is a type of Jesus Christ,
The land of Judah and the City of Jerusalem are the Church.
The king of Tyrus is Satan, [Ezekiel 28; see below]
Pharaoh king of Egypt is also Satan.
The Lord is the Father God.
Egypt is the world. [The only new type here is Nebuchadnezzar.[

What the parable illustrates is the role Jesus plays in the Fathers plan.
Nebuchadnezzar first conquered Tyre, then Jerusalem, and finally Egypt.

Jesus first defeated Satan at Calvary. Now He is about to take over [conquer] the Church. Then He will judge and take over the world.

As Nebuchadnezzar was given the land of Egypt by the Lord, for his service in defeating the king of Tyrus, so the Father has given Jesus all authority and power under heaven for his defeat of Satan at Calvary. [Ezekiel 29, see below.]

And part of the judgment that Nebuchadnezzar carries out against Egypt is to destroy the houses of their gods. This alludes to the judgments the Lord made against Pharaoh and the gods of Egypt in Exodus. And it is a prophetic foreshadowing of the Second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, when He will carry out vengeance against Satan's kingdoms [the houses of their gods] in the heavenly places. [Jeremiah 43; see below]

Then He will set up his throne in Pharaoh's house, and spread his royal pavilion there.

…And he shall array himself with the land of Egypt, as a shepherd putteth on his garment; and he shall go forth from thence in peace Jer.. 43:12. Which is to say, Jesus will set up his kingdom on this earth, and assume control of the world and bring peace!

But First, Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem and burnt the temple. And afterward He conquered Egypt. [Jeremiah 25; see below]
Which is to say: Judgment must begin at the house of God, and then judgment will come upon the world.



The main lesson for the church today:
Nebuchadnezzar as a type of the Lord Jesus brings judgment on Jerusalem. This is the coming judgment on the Church. Organized Christianity as we know it will be devastated, like Jerusalem was. The survivors are counseled by the prophet Jeremiah to remain in the Land of Judah [praise] to dwell safely. If they go down into Egypt, they are in danger. [Jeremiah 42: see below.]
Likewise Christian who come through this judgment must stay in an attitude of Praise and Worship [service] to God, in order to be safe during the judgments coming on the world. If they loose heart and fall back into following the ways of the world [Egypt] they will be judged with the world.



The Judgment on the Church
The situation in Jerusalem when it was destroyed was that they were already under the rule of Nebuchadnezzar. The Kingdom of Judah was supposedly submitted to the Babylonian empire. Their King was a man He had set up and placed on their throne. He [Zedekiah] rebelled and brought down destruction upon the nation.

Our churches are supposedly submitted to the Lordship of Jesus. Our leaders are men he has raised up. Yet for our disobedience He [Jesus] must come as Judge. He will assume His authority and set up His throne in His temple, the Church. As Judgment begins at the House of God, so will the Kingdom of God begin in this revival.

This judgment is quite comparable to the destruction of Jerusalem. In Rick Joyner's article, Civil War in the Church, he speaks of it in terms of what will "look like a total meltdown of Christianity."

Isaiah speaks of a time when " When the enemy shall come in like a flood, …. Isa. 59:19

In another place Isaiah writes:
Isa. . 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;
Paul speaks of the day of fire, (How often we pray, Lord send down the Fire!)
1 Cor.. 3;13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Malachi mentions refiners fire when considering that day.
Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
Luke mentions the fire in connection with purging.
Lu. 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
Hebrews speaks of judgment, shaking and fire, a consuming fire.
He 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.


References:

[Note that some of these references refer directly to Jesus, some to Cyrus King of Persia and some to Nebuchadnezzar King of Babylon. The common element is that God speaks of each of them as 'my servant' or 'my anointed'. And as you might guess, Cyrus is a type of the Lord Jesus Christ just as Nebuchadnezzar is.]

Jeremiah. 27:
6 And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.

Ezra 1:
2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

Isaiah. 42:
1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 44:
1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

Jeremiah 25:
9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.
15 For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
17 Then took I the cup at the LORD'S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:
18 To wit, Jerusalem, and the cities of Judah, and the kings thereof, and the princes thereof, to make them a desolation, an astonishment, an hissing, and a curse; as it is this day;
19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, and his servants, and his princes, and all his people;

Ezekiel 28

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 29

18 Son of man, Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon caused his army to serve a great service against Tyrus: every head was made bald, and every shoulder was peeled: yet had he no wages, nor his army, for Tyrus, for the service that he had served against it:
19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will give the land of Egypt unto Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall take her multitude, and take her spoil, and take her prey; and it shall be the wages for his army.
20 I have given him the land of Egypt for his labour wherewith he served against it, because they wrought for me, saith the Lord GOD.
21 In that day will I cause the horn of the house of Israel to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Jeremiah 43

8 Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah in Tahpanhes, saying,
9 Take great stones in thine hand, and hide them in the clay in the brickkiln, which is at the entry of Pharaoh's house in Tahpanhes, in the sight of the men of Judah;
10 And say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will send and take Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne upon these stones that I have hid; and he shall spread his royal pavilion over them.
11 And when he cometh, he shall smite the land of Egypt, and deliver such as are for death to death; and such as are for captivity to captivity; and such as are for the sword to the sword.
12 And I will kindle a fire in the houses of the gods of Egypt; and he shall burn them, and carry them away captives: and he shall array himself with the land of Egypt, as a shepherd putteth on his garment; and he shall go forth from thence in peace.
13 He shall break also the images of Bethshemesh, that is in the land of Egypt; and the houses of the gods of the Egyptians shall he burn with fire.

Jeremiah 42

9 And said unto them, Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, unto whom ye sent me to present your supplication before him;
10 If ye will still abide in this land, then will I build you, and not pull you down, and I will plant you, and not pluck you up: for I repent me of the evil that I have done unto you.
11 Be not afraid of the king of Babylon, of whom ye are afraid; be not afraid of him, saith the LORD: for I am with you to save you, and to deliver you from his hand.
12 And I will shew mercies unto you, that he may have mercy upon you, and cause you to return to your own land.
13 But if ye say, We will not dwell in this land, neither obey the voice of the LORD your God,
14 Saying, No; but we will go into the land of Egypt, where we shall see no war, nor hear the sound of the trumpet, nor have hunger of bread; and there will we dwell:
15 And now therefore hear the word of the LORD, ye remnant of Judah; Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; If ye wholly set your faces to enter into Egypt, and go to sojourn there;
16 Then it shall come to pass, that the sword, which ye feared, shall overtake you there in the land of Egypt, and the famine, whereof ye were afraid, shall follow close after you there in Egypt; and there ye shall die.
17 So shall it be with all the men that set their faces to go into Egypt to sojourn there; they shall die by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence: and none of them shall remain or escape from the evil that I will bring upon them.
18 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; As mine anger and my fury hath been poured forth upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem; so shall my fury be poured forth upon you, when ye shall enter into Egypt: and ye shall be an execration, and an astonishment, and a curse, and a reproach; and ye shall see this place no more.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by Nakash]

[edit on 19-1-2006 by Nakash]

Afraid I just dont agree and it appears we'll leave it at that.

We agree on most points. As long as we don't foolishly deny the existence and ambitions of Satan I doubt it really matters whether Isaiah 14 is a short dissertation on that figure.

Your concept of Satan is different then mine. I don't see Satan as one being who is an arch enemy of God.

I see Satan as meaning Adversary and I see the Watcher beings also called Serpent being composed of this Dragon system of many Satans not just one leader whom has been given the name Devil/Satan/Lucifer and so forth. They gave mankind forbidden knowledge and will be among us in the end of times as well as mixing themselves with mankinds seed as they did have pre-flood and after flood.

I find the modern versions of what people refer to as aliens as being these same beings.

I'm not a follower of the pitchfork demented leader of hell theory that is rampant in christianity. They are just as evil as your concept of a single Satan and his minions, however I see no proof of one leader over them named Satan. Satan after all is Hebrew in origin and even a jewish scholar will tell you there was no such being in their culture.

People can hold onto that system of thought if they want, but it's just not how I see things playing out in the future.

Numberman
look at my threads you'll see that i believe the same things you do
but in a more blunt way, plz relate your theorys to mine,
they are the same. but i try to reach the profane, its very difficult

I do not hold to some heretical Manichaen concept of Satan Number, He is a servant of God, yet his task is best performed unwillingly. You know as well as I that there are limits to his actions imposed by God. His plan is obviously blocked by Preknowledge, it may seem absurd to our eyes that God allows this but to him there is purpose to it.

On a side note- why has this thread been hijacked? That discussion of who the antichrist could turn out to be was pretty interesting.

[edit on 19-1-2006 by Nakash]