Creationists Demand Airtime On 'Cosmos' For The Sake Of Balance

how do you balance truth with un-truth?

there is no large scale debate over big bang, or evolution. so how do you balance that? better yet, how is it unbalanced?

there are still people out there that believe in a geo-centric solar system based on tychos model (all the planets and stuff revolve around the sun, but the sun revolves around us). should we put that out there, just for balance? www.geocentricity.com...

the only way to bring balance into science is to show that two or more large groups are currently debating a topic. like between hawking and that other guy (whos name i forget) about the effects of black hole event horizons. there is large scale debate about that, so both sides should get time. string theory and m-theory are another example of large scale debates currently going on in the science world, so both should be given time. when the science is settled, then it is balanced.

however, if there is no large scale debate, then its just a few nutters (that may be proven right later on, but nutters for now) putting out non-sense. no balance required, because things arent out of balance.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Why do politically correct mainstreamers need one more of their uninteresting and boring tv series to force their theories on people and celebrate themselves. I saw the first episode and it was a huge waste of time. Just because they add some more effects and deliver some more pixels does not mean that there are something new to add to it all. The use of the word ‘science’ is now so watered down that it is about to become meaningless, because most of their ideas are just old theories popping up again with new wrapping. I think everybody at this stage pretty much know what ‘science’ claims they know about everything that puzzles people, and after having watched the first episode, i can still see that it’s about nothing. What we need is to get to the next stage. That would require ‘science’ to scrap about everything they cling to, and start over from scratch, as well as to cooperate with everybody who want to participate. That includes the creationists.

Double post Sorry

helius
What we need is to get to the next stage. That would require ‘science’ to scrap about everything they cling to, and start over from scratch, as well as to cooperate with everybody who want to participate. That includes the creationists.

Creationists have absolutely nothing to offer. But sure,let's throw out the very tool that has given us all the wondrous technological and medical breakthroughs of the last few centuries and instead start from scratch and cooperate with ignorant creationists because... er, what was your reasoning again?

i watched the first 2 shows.

it was watered down and nothing i haven't heard before.

except about giordano bruno.

"That’s more or less the story that gets told in Cosmos. Bruno is introduced as “only one man on the whole planet” who suspected that the universe was larger than everyone living in the year 1600 thought. Neil Degrasse Tyson ambles through alleys in the Vatican, explaining that there was “no freedom of thought in Italy,” and Bruno’s theories brought him “into the clutches of the thought police.” Bruno, according to Cosmos, wandered around Europe, arguing passionately but fruitlessly for his new explanation of the universe, only to be mocked, impoverished, and eventually imprisoned and executed. Catholic authorities are depicted as cartoon ghouls, and introduced with sinister theme music. Tyson explains that the church’s modus operandi was to “investigate and torment anyone who voiced views that differed from theirs.”

"What Cosmos doesn’t mention is that Bruno’s conflict with the Catholic Church was theological, not scientific, even if it did involve his wild—and occasionally correct—guesses about the universe. As Discover magazine’s Corey Powell pointed out, the philosophers of the 16th century weren’t anything like scientists in the modern sense. Bruno, for instance, was a “pandeist,” which is the belief that God had transformed himself into all matter and ceased to exist as a distinct entity in himself. He believed in all sort of magic and spirits, and extrapolated those views far beyond his ideas about the infinity of the universe. In contrast to contemporaries who drew more modest conclusions from their similar ideas, Bruno agitated for an elaborate counter-theology, and was (unlike the poor, humble outcast portrayed in Cosmos) supported by powerful royal benefactors"

www.thedailybeast.com...

here is another source,

"Beginning in 1593, Bruno was tried for heresy by the Roman Inquisition on charges including denial of the Trinity, denial of the divinity of Christ, denial of virginity of Mary, and denial of Transubstantiation. The Inquisition found him guilty, and in 1600 he was burned at the stake.[5] Scholars emphasize that Bruno's pantheist theology of an infinite God, played the largest role in his being persecuted as a heretic.[6][7] After his death he gained considerable fame, particularly among 19th- and early 20th-century commentators who, focusing on his astronomical beliefs, regarded him as a martyr for modern scientific ideas.[8] His case is considered a landmark in the history of free thought.[9]"

en.wikipedia.org...

as a whole, it was weak, the spaceship was cool but still just fantasy, science guys. why?

i don't support the creationists being on the show, but i expect the show to tell the truth.

GetHyped

helius
What we need is to get to the next stage. That would require ‘science’ to scrap about everything they cling to, and start over from scratch, as well as to cooperate with everybody who want to participate. That includes the creationists.

Creationists have absolutely nothing to offer. But sure,let's throw out the very tool that has given us all the wondrous technological and medical breakthroughs of the last few centuries and instead start from scratch and cooperate with ignorant creationists because... er, what was your reasoning again?

yeah that's why science has been busting their ball(s) to disprove anything in the bible.

have you noticed that we have more crap wrong with people when science got involved?

anyway, creationists tells science where to look. u look and figure it out.

if it wasn't for the bible, science would never happen. right?

the bible makes ya think.

reply to post by helius

The use of the word ‘science’ is now so watered down that it is about to become meaningless, because most of their ideas are just old theories popping up again with new wrapping.

The exact same thing could be said about the word 'religion'.

I think everybody at this stage pretty much know what ‘science’ claims they know about everything that puzzles people, and after having watched the first episode, i can still see that it’s about nothing.

Maybe nothing "new" and "earth-shattering", but nothing period? I disagree. I don't get your point here. Sorry.

What we need is to get to the next stage. That would require ‘science’ to scrap about everything they cling to, and start over from scratch, as well as to cooperate with everybody who want to participate. That includes the creationists.

Start from scratch? That's what has happened after every civilization disappears. The way to get to the next stage of 'we know nothing' is to hit the reset button, via a huge impact event or nuclear annihilation.

Creationists (Young Earth Creationists, that is) don't have any intention of "cooperating". Ham made that very clear when he spoke to Nye. All he did was keep saying, "See, I've got this book..." which was, in my opinion, childish and annoying.

Now, if you want to scrap ALL of religion as well as ALL of science, and start over, that would be an interesting project (and would take millennia). Why so hostile?

Cosmos is for educating people about science. Get your own show.

What would they even have on the biblical version of "Cosmos"? Seems like it could all be covered in one episode. The Bible dedicates, depending on translation, about 800 words in total to creation. Wikipedia's plot summary for Skyrim is longer than that.

"God said this and that, and this and that was made. God said it was good." - Fin

LeviWardrobe
Cosmos is for educating people about science. Get your own show.

What would they even have on the biblical version of "Cosmos"? Seems like it could all be covered in one episode. The Bible dedicates, depending on translation, about 800 words in total to creation. Wikipedia's plot summary for Skyrim is longer than that.

"God said this and that, and this and that was made. God said it was good." - Fin

You have to make room for the story of Jesus, too.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


When we are dealing with the cosmos we are not dealing with real and excellent scientists like those who are doing science on medicine and the like. I apologize if anyone were led to believe that. It is the ‘scientists’ that have mainstream theories about existential questions I don’t accept as real scientists.

Just because they have lots of computer power to run their simulation programs or lots of time to play with their multi billion (state of the art) toy in CERN to hunt ghosts , it does not give them the right to call themselves scientists. Up until now, everything that they have ever presented are false and highly doubtful theories which they always present with arrogance and proud and as if they should be absolute and proven truths , claimed in the name of science.

Another thing that makes this scientific establishment so non-functioning is that they are totally owned by the political establishment. It is this latter establishment that funds and pays the scientists, and thus the political establishment are always the one’s that decides what kind of theories that should go public and in which directions the ideas and experiments should be routed.

Thus we today have a situation where the scientific establishment are unwilling to attempt entirely new angles or cooperate with people outside the establishment to get new ideas. Instead they are painting themselves further and further into a corner , ridiculing everybody who threatens their establishment and their theories. Thus they are now unable to see the forest due to all the trees.

The way this establishment now works is actually reminding me very much about the situation that such scientists experienced under the old Vatican regime, just like the new Cosmos series so precisely and arrogant presented.

I am sure there is nothing wrong with the brain capacity of these scientists and I don’t doubt that they are smart . They are not even the ones to entirely blame for the situation. The real problem lies in the hands of the political establishment. They are the ones who owns them and pays them and funds them. They are the ones that uses them as a tool to present theories that matches their political agenda. Getting rid of Christianity and the creation story is just one of their political goals.

It won't take forever to start with blank sheets. It will perhaps take a while to re-establish science and experiments to get out of the dark whole they are in now, but when everything they has come up with so far is a dead end , false and doubtful it's a win win situation for everybody to start anew with fresh ideas. To get there , one needs to bring the scientists out of the hands of the politicians.

If they could show, using credible science, that God exists and He created the universe, then let them on the show. If they can't ... then don't let them on. Actually, what would be kinda interesting .. set up a show with a panel ... one side creationists and one side secularists. Let them battle it out scientifically on the show. See who wins.

reply to post by tsingtao


That's like saying Nazism is helpful because it encourages people who aren't Nazis to exercise their compassion in defense of victims of Nazism. Double think ftw?

helius
reply to post by BuzzyWigs

 

When we are dealing with the cosmos we are not dealing with real and excellent scientists like those who are doing science on medicine and the like. I apologize if anyone were led to believe that. It is the ‘scientists’ that have mainstream theories about existential questions I don’t accept as real scientists.

Just because they have lots of computer power to run their simulation programs or lots of time to play with their multi billion (state of the art) toy in CERN to hunt ghosts , it does not give them the right to call themselves scientists. Up until now, everything that they have ever presented are false and highly doubtful theories which they always present with arrogance and proud and as if they should be absolute and proven truths , claimed in the name of science.

Another thing that makes this scientific establishment so non-functioning is that they are totally owned by the political establishment. It is this latter establishment that funds and pays the scientists, and thus the political establishment are always the one’s that decides what kind of theories that should go public and in which directions the ideas and experiments should be routed.

Thus we today have a situation where the scientific establishment are unwilling to attempt entirely new angles or cooperate with people outside the establishment to get new ideas. Instead they are painting themselves further and further into a corner , ridiculing everybody who threatens their establishment and their theories. Thus they are now unable to see the forest due to all the trees.

The way this establishment now works is actually reminding me very much about the situation that such scientists experienced under the old Vatican regime, just like the new Cosmos series so precisely and arrogant presented.

I am sure there is nothing wrong with the brain capacity of these scientists and I don’t doubt that they are smart . They are not even the ones to entirely blame for the situation. The real problem lies in the hands of the political establishment. They are the ones who owns them and pays them and funds them. They are the ones that uses them as a tool to present theories that matches their political agenda. Getting rid of Christianity and the creation story is just one of their political goals.

It won't take forever to start with blank sheets. It will perhaps take a while to re-establish science and experiments to get out of the dark whole they are in now, but when everything they has come up with so far is a dead end , false and doubtful it's a win win situation for everybody to start anew with fresh ideas. To get there , one needs to bring the scientists out of the hands of the politicians.

edit on 25-3-2014 by helius because: (no reason given)

I think you're confusing what science is with your own (and very personal it seems) interpretation and understanding of it.
And then you've thrown a bit of religious paranoia in there to cement it.

Oh, if your advice is taken and science has to start again with blank sheets do we start again with blank sheets for religion too?

reply to post by helius

Up until now, everything that they have ever presented are false and highly doubtful theories which they always present with arrogance and proud and as if they should be absolute and proven truths , claimed in the name of science.

Everything presented by science is false and highly doubtful and just hypotheses?

tsingtao

GetHyped

helius
What we need is to get to the next stage. That would require ‘science’ to scrap about everything they cling to, and start over from scratch, as well as to cooperate with everybody who want to participate. That includes the creationists.

Creationists have absolutely nothing to offer. But sure,let's throw out the very tool that has given us all the wondrous technological and medical breakthroughs of the last few centuries and instead start from scratch and cooperate with ignorant creationists because... er, what was your reasoning again?

yeah that's why science has been busting their ball(s) to disprove anything in the bible.

have you noticed that we have more crap wrong with people when science got involved?

anyway, creationists tells science where to look. u look and figure it out.

if it wasn't for the bible, science would never happen. right?

the bible makes ya think.

More christian paranoia.
If it wasn't for the bible we'd be living on Mars by now.

tsingtao

GetHyped

helius
What we need is to get to the next stage. That would require ‘science’ to scrap about everything they cling to, and start over from scratch, as well as to cooperate with everybody who want to participate. That includes the creationists.

Creationists have absolutely nothing to offer. But sure,let's throw out the very tool that has given us all the wondrous technological and medical breakthroughs of the last few centuries and instead start from scratch and cooperate with ignorant creationists because... er, what was your reasoning again?

yeah that's why science has been busting their ball(s) to disprove anything in the bible.

have you noticed that we have more crap wrong with people when science got involved?

anyway, creationists tells science where to look. u look and figure it out.

if it wasn't for the bible, science would never happen. right?

the bible makes ya think.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason we find more things wrong with people the more science gets involved (as you put it), that the reason for this is because due to a better understanding of the human body, we can better classify abnormalities and problems with it? No, according to you, I guess, science is just giving these people those problems or making them up.

Creations tell science where to look? Don't be absurd, you don't tell science where to look for something. That creates bias, though I'm not surprised that a creationist would try to create bias in science. You let science do its thing and produce the results it does then you interpret them the best you can. If the results happen to line up with established ideas, then you keep them, if they don't, you discard and replace. Creationism (at least YEC) has failed this test. OEC, is a little harder to disprove though. So I'm still open to that possibility as is science.

tsingtao

anyway, creationists tells science where to look. u look and figure it out.

Wrong. Creationists tell science to stop looking.

tsingtao

yeah that's why science has been busting their ball(s) to disprove anything in the bible.

Only Christians who are looking to play the oppression card think that science gives two damns about some 2,000 year old book. Now, when religious fundamentalists start making claims about the natural world, that's when science will debunk them. You don't like it? Then stop trying to suppress academic enlightenment and education because you find the conclusions of science to be philosophically challenging.

“What do you think science is? There's nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. Which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?”


― Steven Novella

I watched another episode of the ridiculous show COSMOS. So this week, they try to tell us that we are left all alone in a universe without any understanding or reason as to why things are. Speak for yourself. The universe did not appear in perfection and order all by itself, God made it.

Then there was the idea that great scientists like Haley and Newton, and some guy named Hook solved the riddle of comets because those religious and superstitious peoples had no idea what they were talking about. Yet any person believing in God and understanding the Bible knows that God often uses his creation to show us things, not because they in themselves have special powers but are indications of events to come. We know why solar eclipses happen and lunar eclipses happen. yet God will use both to announce the coming of Christ to earth.

Acts 2 (NKJV) "And there will be signs in the heavens above and in the earth beneath, blood, fire and vapors of smoke. And the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and notable day of the Lord come."

So there will be earthquakes, volcano eruptions, smoke (ash) filled skies, a solar and lunar eclipse happening in quick order and then Christ will come. Not because they in themselves have powers or are magical, but because they will happen to the earth and just about the time Christ returns. So God shows that when you see these things happen you will know the time is very close.

I wish COSMOS would just talk about the wonders of science as to what they know and not what they believe they know. To believe what you cannot prove is called faith and that is a religious term not a scientific one. Yet they go on with bashing God anyways. Just show us the wonders of the universe and leave out the anti-God philosophy.

Fromabove

I watched another episode of the ridiculous show COSMOS. So this week, they try to tell us that we are left all alone in a universe without any understanding or reason as to why things are. Speak for yourself. The universe did not appear in perfection and order all by itself, God made it.

Everything that you are ridiculing about Cosmos is true though. We ARE alone in this universe with no understanding or reason as to why things are. A god may have created the universe, but he certainly isn't interacting with our planet on a day to day basis. There is still countless amounts of hardship and wrong on this planet that god could easily fix. He could also point out the correct religion, which he never does either. So he certainly isn't helping us in any meaningful way, which to me translates to as alone like the show said.

Then there was the idea that great scientists like Haley and Newton, and some guy named Hook solved the riddle of comets because those religious and superstitious peoples had no idea what they were talking about. Yet any person believing in God and understanding the Bible knows that God often uses his creation to show us things, not because they in themselves have special powers but are indications of events to come. We know why solar eclipses happen and lunar eclipses happen. yet God will use both to announce the coming of Christ to earth.

All of those things work on cycles. Comets orbit around the sun and are visible every so many years. Eclipses happen when the sun, moon, and earth line up exactly so that one obscures the view of another when standing on Earth. They ALSO happen every so often. Also they are only relevant to Earth. A solar eclipse means nothing when you are standing on Mars or another planet that may have life on it somewhere in the universe.

Acts 2 (NKJV) "And there will be signs in the heavens above and in the earth beneath, blood, fire and vapors of smoke. And the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and notable day of the Lord come."

Quoting prophecy will get you nowhere. It hasn't happened so you can make no claims on its legitimacy.

So there will be earthquakes, volcano eruptions, smoke (ash) filled skies, a solar and lunar eclipse happening in quick order and then Christ will come. Not because they in themselves have powers or are magical, but because they will happen to the earth and just about the time Christ returns. So God shows that when you see these things happen you will know the time is very close.

Of course, it's SO easy to see! It's not like earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, ash filled skies (result of volcanic eruptions) and eclipses don't happen all the time EVERY year.

I wish COSMOS would just talk about the wonders of science as to what they know and not what they believe they know. To believe what you cannot prove is called faith and that is a religious term not a scientific one. Yet they go on with bashing God anyways. Just show us the wonders of the universe and leave out the anti-God philosophy.

There is no such thing as absolute knowledge, everything falls to belief at one point. You can use probability to refine that belief down a bit, but without all the answers to the universe's questions, we cannot claim to know anything for absolute fact.