Creationists Demand Airtime On 'Cosmos' For The Sake Of Balance

Fromabove

Hmmmm.... how do you say something you really want people to understand without all of the anti-God backlash, let's try anyways.


The show COSMOS is not a science documentary program. It is an indoctrination piece.

What's the matter? Christianity has the market cornered on indoctrination and doesn't appreciate competition? On a serious note, if faith is so unshakeable then why are Christians so butt hurt over a single television show? do they not appreciate the competition for the hearts and minds of our youth?

The whole reason the question is even raised to say if Christians etc. should have a say of equal time in it is because the bias is there for all to see. It is a one sided philosophical work to teach young minds there is no God and that the universe merely popped into existence, created order out of chaos, and created life all on it's own. There seems to be an undercurrent of resentment towards God in the show as far as I can tell right now.

if by one sided you mean presenting the science behind things, then yes it is one sided. Christians have their own damned network, CBN, Dr. Tyson has 1 show which airs 1 hour per week where CBN runs 7 days a week all day every day. the entire concept of demanding equal time at someone else's dinner party is ludicrous from the start. When was the last time you saw a group of scientists demanding access to The 700 Club? why do you feel there is an undercurrent of resentment towards god? is it because Dr. Tyson is pretty open about not believing in one or just because they aren't comparing religious concepts with scientific ones? to paraphrase Dr. Tyson, just because you don't believe or understand science doesn't make it any less true. you can't argue with evidence.

As a Christian, would I want air time on that show? No. because I want people to question the philosophy. This was how I made my exist as an atheist to a Christian. The truth will be seen even if they wrap it up in vanity, tie a bow on it, and use cgi.

good for you, you're in the Christian minority in wanting people to question the philosophical aspects of your religion. I'm assuming you meant Christianity when you say philosophy because science isn't a philosophy. Why would any Christian want equal airtime on a show that is counter to their beliefs, especially when programs like the 700 club would love to have you all on there bashing science?

Why else would the atheists need to ask if Christians are offended and need equal time if they didn't already know the answer.

When have any atheists been worried about Christians being offended by science? Ken Ham is the one with his wife's panties twisted around his ankles. The whining started with him, not anyone promoting science. Not to be snarky, but the last time I checked, most atheists weren't overly concerned with whether or not they offend the sensibilities of the religious. its not particularly on their radar.

I found it quite amusing that I was in a game not long ago and some kid was adamant humans only have existed for about just over thousand years.

World gets stupider every year.

reply to post by peter vlar


Awesome post.
Somehow I don't think he's going to address it, though - just like he hasn't addressed mine.

I'm also confused about what he meant by studying the philosophy; which philosophy? Religious philosophy? I certainly don't see an undercurrent of anything nefarious on the show, or the show asking (Demanding, rather, as Ham is Demanding airtime) that the religious come on and argue.


The Pope is a scientist. He's meeting with Obama right now. I'm glad of it. Some real-world issues will be addressed; things which we can do something about. We can't do anything about how the universe was formed. We can, however, destroy our planet...and each other. Over differences in religion. That's happening right now, too.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Fromabove

 

In the meantime, could you please answer my questions to you from the post above? The last one I made in response to you?

edit on 3/27/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

Certainly...

1. The "they" are the creators and advisers of the show.

2. Atheists need not be offended. They don't like Christians anyway so that's not apt to change. And COSMOS is their baby so they won't be complaining about that either.

3. Mr. Ham thinks he understands about the start of creation, but the Bible makes it very clear that God created the heavens and the Earth billions if not more years ago or (in the beginning). When the Genesis began, the earth was already in existence and covered under clouds and water. But Mr. Ham believes that everything happened in 6,000 years. That's his opinion not mine. I just do not subscribe to the hypothesis of evolution due to it's lack of credibility, and the mathematical impossibilities.

You didn't miss anything. If Mt. Ham is the only one complaining it's because he has spent so much time trying to make people accept his belief in a 6,000 year creation. He is only one person and doesn't speak for all of Christianity.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


There's worse things on TV today than this. I honestly don't see a problem. Those who want to believe will, those who won't simply won't.

Fromabove

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Fromabove

 

In the meantime, could you please answer my questions to you from the post above? The last one I made in response to you?

edit on 3/27/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

That's his opinion not mine. I just do not subscribe to the hypothesis of evolution due to it's lack of credibility, and the mathematical impossibilities.

Lack of credibility? So the majority of scientists in the world isn't credible enough for you? What DOES constitute good credibility to you then?

Mathematical impossibilities? These impossibilities wouldn't have anything to do with you not being a math professor or not having a degree in math would it? I'd like to see how you've personally crunched the numbers that show that this is a mathematical impossibility and all the mathematicians and scientists clearly just made a math error in their calculations. Surely, this isn't math you've found and read about on a Christian website without checking to see if it is true or not right? And the beauty of math is that you don't have to have access to all sorts of fancy equipment to test mathematical claims. All you need is a pencil, a paper, and maybe a calculator and you can confirm or deny just about all mathematical claims. So let's see YOUR math that shows that evolution is a mathematical impossibility. I'm sure you could write a paper on it and win a Nobel Prize. I mean finding a mathematical mistake that no one else found that disproves evolution would be BIG.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by peter vlar

 

Awesome post.
Somehow I don't think he's going to address it, though - just like he hasn't addressed mine.

I'm also confused about what he meant by studying the philosophy; which philosophy? Religious philosophy? I certainly don't see an undercurrent of anything nefarious on the show, or the show asking (Demanding, rather, as Ham is Demanding airtime) that the religious come on and argue.

The Pope is a scientist. He's meeting with Obama right now. I'm glad of it. Some real-world issues will be addressed; things which we can do something about. We can't do anything about how the universe was formed. We can, however, destroy our planet...and each other. Over differences in religion. That's happening right now, too.

edit on 3/27/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

When I say philosophy I mean it like this. The show is "assuming" things for which there is no proof. Just like I could not prove that there is a God to an atheist, the narrators of the show COSMOS assume that things are the way they are because people of science say so. Such as the "we are alone in the universe without knowing why we are here." That is philosophical and speculation. Talking about and making statements on species of dogs and bears as if to say that the color of hair or their meanness is that they are evolved species is again speculative and without merit or proof. It's all gobbly gook nonsense.

Are Asians and blacks humans? or another hominid species? What about red heads, where do they fit in? Could it be said then that white people are a refined and higher form of humanoid? Of course not, and that's the speculative philosophy of the show.

As I said, they should stick to real science of what they know and not add their personal beliefs into it. That would be expressing their faith in what they cannot prove and that would be religious. Science can be a religion if you start adding your personal stuff with it to say this is why though I can never prove any of it.

Krazysh0t

Fromabove

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Fromabove

 

In the meantime, could you please answer my questions to you from the post above? The last one I made in response to you?

edit on 3/27/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

That's his opinion not mine. I just do not subscribe to the hypothesis of evolution due to it's lack of credibility, and the mathematical impossibilities.

Lack of credibility? So the majority of scientists in the world isn't credible enough for you? What DOES constitute good credibility to you then?

Mathematical impossibilities? These impossibilities wouldn't have anything to do with you not being a math professor or not having a degree in math would it? I'd like to see how you've personally crunched the numbers that show that this is a mathematical impossibility and all the mathematicians and scientists clearly just made a math error in their calculations. Surely, this isn't math you've found and read about on a Christian website without checking to see if it is true or not right? And the beauty of math is that you don't have to have access to all sorts of fancy equipment to test mathematical claims. All you need is a pencil, a paper, and maybe a calculator and you can confirm or deny just about all mathematical claims. So let's see YOUR math that shows that evolution is a mathematical impossibility. I'm sure you could write a paper on it and win a Nobel Prize. I mean finding a mathematical mistake that no one else found that disproves evolution would be BIG.

edit on 27-3-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry. There is no such thing as evolution. It's just wishful thinking and a pipe dream. But COSMOS will state it as a proven fact, even though there never was or is any proof at all.

I will show you the math, but I must go from the computer for a bit. I will respond to you up ahead.

Fromabove

Krazysh0t

Fromabove

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Fromabove

 

In the meantime, could you please answer my questions to you from the post above? The last one I made in response to you?

edit on 3/27/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

That's his opinion not mine. I just do not subscribe to the hypothesis of evolution due to it's lack of credibility, and the mathematical impossibilities.

Lack of credibility? So the majority of scientists in the world isn't credible enough for you? What DOES constitute good credibility to you then?

Mathematical impossibilities? These impossibilities wouldn't have anything to do with you not being a math professor or not having a degree in math would it? I'd like to see how you've personally crunched the numbers that show that this is a mathematical impossibility and all the mathematicians and scientists clearly just made a math error in their calculations. Surely, this isn't math you've found and read about on a Christian website without checking to see if it is true or not right? And the beauty of math is that you don't have to have access to all sorts of fancy equipment to test mathematical claims. All you need is a pencil, a paper, and maybe a calculator and you can confirm or deny just about all mathematical claims. So let's see YOUR math that shows that evolution is a mathematical impossibility. I'm sure you could write a paper on it and win a Nobel Prize. I mean finding a mathematical mistake that no one else found that disproves evolution would be BIG.

edit on 27-3-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

I'm sorry. There is no such thing as evolution. It's just wishful thinking and a pipe dream. But COSMOS will state it as a proven fact, even though there never was or is any proof at all.

en.wikipedia.org...

There's a link for you, filled to bursting with the basic facts regarding evolutionary theory. If you're still unsure, I would suggest you check out the bibliography at the bottom and do some research on the books from which the information was taken, as well as the various scientists and researchers who authored them. More to the point, if you are so adamant that evolution is a "pipe dream", perhaps you can cite Wikipedia, point for point, and explain how evolution is scientifically improbable or impossible. I would politely request that you also provide your own research and documentation supporting your claims, so that they can be peer-reviewed and substantiated or falsified.

reply to post by Fromabove


What? Then what is this then?

Human Evolution Evidence
Five Proofs of Evolution
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution

Whether you believe in the proof or not is irrelevant, but there is CERTAINLY proof of evolution. Also, still waiting for your mathematical calculations. You made a statement about the mathematical impossibility of evolution, so get figuring. Let's see the math. Deny Ignorance, it's not just a catchy slogan.

ETA: also you didn't answer my question. What constitutes good credibility to you?

Fromabove
I'm sorry. There is no such thing as evolution. It's just wishful thinking and a pipe dream. But COSMOS will state it as a proven fact, even though there never was or is any proof at all.

I will show you the math, but I must go from the computer for a bit. I will respond to you up ahead.

So the new definition of 'fanciful thinking' is apparently 150 years of peer reviewed scientific consensus? Interesting. They must have left that out of the journals I've been subscribing to all this time. I find it interesting that your premise for this is based in theology but only the theology that works for you. Could you explain why Christianity is a superior worldview to any other faith? Vedic tradition stretched back for several millennia prior to the Abrahamic traditions for example. It was only a couple if thousand years ago and more recently in some instances, that the GrecoRoman pantheons were the religions of the educated world and everyone believed fully in their divinity with as muh fervor as a conservative American baptist so why is the flavor of today THE only true word? It seems far more arrogant to me to argue from biblical authority than it does to argue from science which admits its own fallibility and never stops trying to understand things and get the truth out in the open whereas the vast majority of Christians, whether YEC's or not, argue that Bronze Age nomadic goat herders clearly knew more about the world and universe than science ever will. Is it difficult or painful carrying that massive hump on your back?

reply to post by Fromabove

I'm sorry. There is no such thing as evolution. It's just wishful thinking and a pipe dream.

You're funny. How can you say that??
Oh right, you're going to present us the proof. Thank goodness, because science is always aware that findings, if falsified, are to be discarded. Religion not so much.

Earlier you made a remark about the show being indoctrination. What about the Bible? Indoctrination. Pure indoctrination.

As for redheads, you've mentioned that twice now.
We fit in just fine, thanks.

Neanderthal Genes for Red Hair and More...

Red-Headed Neanderthals

Ancient DNA has been used to show aspects of Neanderthal appearance. A fragment of the gene for the melanocortin 1 receptor (MRC1) was sequenced using DNA from two Neanderthal specimens from Spain and Italy, El Sidrón 1252 and Monte Lessini (Lalueza-Fox et al. 2007). Neanderthals had a mutation in this receptor gene that has not been found in modern humans. The mutation changes an amino acid, making the resulting protein less efficient. Modern humans have other MCR1 variants that are also less active resulting in red hair and pale skin. The less active Neanderthal mutation probably also resulted in red hair and pale skin, as in modern humans.

The specific MCR1 mutation in Neanderthals has not found in modern humans (or occurs extremely rarely in modern humans). This indicates that the two mutations for red hair and pale skin occurred independently and does not support the idea of gene flow between Neanderthals and modern humans. Pale skin may have been advantageous to Neanderthals living in Europe because of the ability to synthesize vitamin D.

humanorigins.si.edu...

Good hardy stock, adapted for absorbing sun in northern climes.

Why are you trying to make this a racist agenda?
Dogs are canines, evolved from wolves. Each breed has specific characteristics. Redheads are humans, evolved from Neanderthals. Often feisty, opinionated, born leaders, not your typical shrinking violet.
You're mixing up "species" with "breed," I think.
It's known that certain races of humans are intolerant to things that other races can handle....evolution.

I'm sorry. But the case for evolution is very strong, and not likely to fade away as archaic superstition. The Bible and other holy texts? Loaded with superstition and indoctrination, poor plotting, not even in sequence, authored under phony names, all 'channeled', and therefore: literature. Historical fiction, for the most part.

Fromabove

It's just wishful thinking and a pipe dream.

I never hear creationists say this about these scientific theories:

Germ theory
Plate tectonics
Quantum mechanics
Oxygen theory of combustion
Special relativity
General relativity
Atomic theory
Cell theory
Chaos theory
Electromagnetism theory
Radiation theory
Molecular bonds theory
Thermodynamics theory
Gravity theory

Why is that? Oh yeah, I remember, it's because they don't directly contradict literal readings of religious scripture. Funny that.

reply to post by GetHyped


You should watch the debate between Ham and Nye. He actually does dismiss plate tectonics.

GetHyped

Fromabove

It's just wishful thinking and a pipe dream.

I never hear creationists say this about these scientific theories:

...

Thermodynamics theory

...

Why is that? Oh yeah, I remember, it's because they don't directly contradict literal readings of religious scripture. Funny that.

They can't say Thermodynamics Theory is wrong, one of their favorite goto fallacies involves part of that theory. Just like their bible, selective application of what is true and what isn't. Unfortunately for them, science doesn't work like that.

This was just uploaded on the 12th of March....
about the Creationists "outrage".

Covers some of the twitter traffic and reasons that they are so mad.




Some highlights for those who can't watch:

Oklahoma decided to censor the part that mentions evolution.
(and they did)

The fact that it's on FOX is kinda strange....although other channels are picking it up as well, in a coordinated effort.

Lots of rightwingers have said it was an amazing show, and very much worth watching....
but not all.

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


The best part of that video was the hilarious subtitles that often were reading like a kindergartner was in charge of the transcriptions haha otherwise it was pretty spot on.

Ok.... and now for the mathematical reasons why evolution is impossible.

Let's go back, waaaayyyyyy back to early earth. Above, a thunderstorm brews and lightning flashes through a continual rain of nutrient rich meteorite dust. There on the surface is a muddy soupy puddle of water filled to the brim with life waiting to happen. It's been 500 million years since the surface cooled and rain started to fall to allow surface lakes and streams.

BAM! and there it is, the event science has envisioned as a bolt of lightning streaks to the ground and zaps the puddle of water. Suddenly what resembles cell-like structures begin to take hold. Very primitive indeed and barely capable of staying together. For a while they float there in the puddle. The have no purpose or knowledge, and they have no way of knowing what if anything to do to continue. They disintegrate back into mush and wash away.

Again, some many millions of years later the same thing happen but WAIT! they have taken a foothold on the edges of the puddle. They do a miraculous thing and suddenly divide and multiply without ever having had the knowledge to know that they should, but they do. But then they die off because they don't know that they should eat/

Again, millions of years later, the planets align and BAM it happens again, and they divide. And then the unspeakable thing happens. They join together to form colonies, the first worm-like creature, again without any knowledge that they should do so. Instead of eating each other they instead know that they need to join together for strength is in numbers and to survive, they must survive! But a dry spell comes along and they all die, baked in the sun.

Again,and again, and again, and again. Billions of years pass, and billions more. Each step destroyed by some unforeseen event. But eventually without mind, or thought, or even sheer will, it all comes together. It becomes complex and wonderful. Knowledge just is and desire from that to live and refine and be better and better. All things must improve. And, and and..... it's will never be possible because entropy will have decayed the universe in cold darkness before that would ever happen.

Due to repetitiveness and failure the math is against evolution.


But wait, there's another way....

God takes the ingredients of the earth and out of them form complex helix and fantastic multiple life forms. Refined and perfected and programmed to follow instructions. But still is is merely a physical thing without intelligence, desire, and will to like. God then imparts His life force into the created and designed things and they have control over the created and perfected helix forms and can move and will in them. Yet the organic machines have automation and can replicate and reproduce. They can self repair and wage war with cells at a level unseen by the human eye.

The human genome is a highly designed machine with a program called the helix. Like a super computer, it has programs within programs and all of it starts as a type of zip file and though crunched, unfolds and speciates into sub-routines and sub commands to build arms and legs and a new hard drive we call the brain. The beauty of which is contained with a four digit code that bonds the double helix together.

Today, "science" is discovering just how complex and even programmable the human machine is. It is wonderfully designed and created.

We call this theory the theory of intelligent design. It holds more water than chance and rolling the dice.

So you see, evolution is merely a dream, unprovable, and without actual evidence.

reply to post by peter vlar


You mean the onscreen quotes?
Yeah, it was pretty funny. But those people take it very seriously....I'm sure they weren't laughing when they wrote them....
I'm just trying to figure out why.

Is it so hard to say that this book is flawed?

reply to post by BuzzyWigs


Did I mention I was a red head? I also have green eyes. So I guess we at least have the hair in common.

Religion is by definition a way of indoctrination. But science is supposed to be a clean slate with Joe Friday on the hunt. "Only the facts Ma'am, nothing but the facts."