US 'alienating' world's Muslims

The US is losing "the war of ideas" in the Islamic world, a Pentagon advisory panel has warned.

A report by the Defence Science Board says America's public talks of bringing democracy to Muslim nations is seen as "self-serving hypocrisy".

It says if the US wants Muslims to move towards its understanding of tolerance, it must reassure them this does not mean submitting to "the American way".

The report urges Washington to change its approach urgently.

In the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering
The Defence Science Board's report

Well this is sure an interesting aspect and they do have a point with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt etc etc.

Maybe the arabs want a single theocracy?




US 'alienating' world's Muslims

The Arabs want to be left alone to their own means pure and simple. If this means subjugation, then that is what they basically will support, whether directly or indirectly. If a man is not responsible enough to govern himself, he will be governed by another.

When the Muslim people became responsible enough to govern themselves, they would have overthrown oppressive governments. Perhaps after their rebellion they would have even established democracy and praised Western values all on their own.

What they didn't want is to be forced into something they weren't ready for. They didn't want another world's values shoved down their throats. The people want to be left of their own devices as any people would want.

[edit on 25-11-2004 by Jamuhn]

Of course we are alienating them, crap, we are killing them left and right. Men women and children. Alienation, that is what we are in their eyes. An Alien Nation

Obviously the a.k.a. terrorists want a theocracy. They wish to return to a Caliph controlled Empire as it was prior to western colonization. Which by the way was for exploitation of their oil assets, just as it is now.

You never cease to amaze me Ed

Hey polar bear? You missed the last sentence,


Of course the terrorists want a Islamic theocracy or empire...


re-read my sentence......

yeup, this is what i have been saying all along. they are just going to multiply to eridicate the US threat, i think the penagon sees this as well. its usually not a good thing to provoke an entire region of the world, and i certainly do not know how adept the US govt is at superintending an islamic theocracy.

Not all arabs want to live in a theocracy. Look at the youth in Iran they are making perhaps the biggest push for democracy of any country in the Middle East. Students in Iran continue their protests against the Islamic government.

Every year more than 150,000 educated Iranians leave their home country in the hope of finding a better life abroad. And the the vast majority move to democratic countries.

The well educated youth of Iran are either protesting the goverment or leaving it.

www.rferl.org... 05A-8FE9-AAD51173BD66.html

www.nationalreview.com...

Originally posted by edsinger
The US is losing "the war of ideas" in the Islamic world, a Pentagon advisory panel has warned.

A report by the Defence Science Board says America's public talks of bringing democracy to Muslim nations is seen as "self-serving hypocrisy".

It says if the US wants Muslims to move towards its understanding of tolerance, it must reassure them this does not mean submitting to "the American way".

The report urges Washington to change its approach urgently.

In the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering
The Defence Science Board's report

well duh...

I am afraid that if this may be a hard bell to unring. In their eyes we are making a mess of things in the name of progress. How do we change how we are viewed as we descent upon towns with our military might?

Maybe the arabs want a single theocracy?

I wonder if they are the only ones......


BG

In my opinion, and it's definitely not a humble one, the muslims are doing ABSOLUTELY nothing to stop the descent of their religion in the scope of non-islamists. Whether it's a product of fear, or silent support, leaders within the muslim community are not renouncing the civilian beheadings that have taken place, the nuclear threats of al-qaeda, or the murderous events surrounding 9-11. They could save face in the world community if they chose to do so. At this point in time, however, they seem content sitting back with zipped-lips.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Not all arabs want to live in a theocracy. Look at the youth in Iran they are
The well educated youth of Iran are either protesting the goverment or leaving it.

Iranians are not arab, they are Persian but point well taken...

Originally posted by beergoggles

Originally posted by edsinger Maybe the arabs want a single theocracy?

I wonder if they are the only ones......
BG

Ha! Good one

[edit on 11/25/2004 by Lecky]

I did read it again, that is what they want, we agree!

from cia fact book

Religions:
Definition Field Listing
Shi'a Muslim 89%, Sunni Muslim 9%, Zoroastrian, Jewish, Christian, and Baha'i 2%
Languages:
Definition Field Listing
Persian and Persian dialects 58%, Turkic and Turkic dialects 26%, Kurdish 9%, Luri 2%, Balochi 1%, Arabic 1%, Turkish 1%, other 2%

They are Shi'a over everything. Just like Iraq. We failed them in their rebellion against the Shah of Iran [an American puppet] we failed them in their revolt against Sadam in 91 [another American puppet] and we are killing them now as fast as we can.
I do not think you understand Muslim Culture only American might.
The question here should be, why has our Bush Dynasty continually backed the Whahabi and Sunni factions over the Shi'a.?

Polar Bear

Originally posted by Polar Bear
and we are killing them now as fast as we can.
I do not think you understand Muslim Culture only American might.

I dont think you understand American might if we were "killing them as fast as we can" There wouldnt be any of them left. As fast as we can would be a few ICBMs. But that is not the intent of the US no matter how much you think it is.

If we wanted to wipe everyone out there would be round the clock carpet bombing by B-52 and MOABs dropping. We didnt even use a MOAB at the start of the war. But since people having been using bombs innocent people have been getting hit. Even smart bombs are not perfect.

Your attempt to make it seem like we are killing them as fast as we can is bunk.

[edit on 25-11-2004 by ShadowXIX]

Point noted and understood. Death must be rationalized or punishment will be sought. We can't bomb them into non existience. It's against the accepted rules. But I know what you mean and agree to an extent.

Now back to my last thought

The question here should be, why has our Bush Dynasty continually backed the Whahabi and Sunni factions over the Shi'a.?

Polar Bear

If we wanted to wipe everyone out there would be round the clock carpet bombing by B-52 and MOABs dropping. We didnt even use a MOAB at the start of the war. But since people having been using bombs innocent people have been getting hit. Even smart bombs are not perfect

this would constitute a backlash of unprecadented proportion, only comparable to world war. if the US were to be sprung upon by overwhelming odds i doubt they would hesitate to commit to such a devistating assault.

Originally posted by Polar Bear

The question here should be, why has our Bush Dynasty continually backed the Whahabi and Sunni factions over the Shi'a.?

Polar Bear

I will take a stab...

Becuase the #e were the first to let fundementalism take root and power in a nation state....when Iran fell in 79, the US was all fired to see them fail. The enemy of the #e is the Sunni.....Hell most of the arabs were against the Iranians.....

Originally posted by Polar Bear
I did read it again, that is what they want, we agree!


Polar Bear

Ok let me explain then,

I said that maybe the arabs want a single theocracy, we know the fundmentalist do, but what of the arab masses? I do not hear them speaking out against this any......now do you follow.....


all arabs are not terrorists..was my point.

That was not your last sentence. I'm not a mind reader give me a break
Most Arabs want Reebok's Nike's, sun glasses, and blue jeans. That is what I brought over there and they loved me. As I have said repeatedly in the past on this board. If we had of dropped that instead of bunker busters this war would be over and our boy's would have flowers in their gun barrels.Rummy is either an idiot or this was the plan from the get go. I say this was and is the plan.

Now back to my last thought

The question here should be, why has our Bush Dynasty continually backed the Whahabi and Sunni factions over the Shi'a.?

Polar Bear

Hlel, I'm starting to like you ED. Run with it take another stab. A little deeper this time then twist, your close.
Pee Bear

My question is, who do we think we are to force another culture to live as we do, believe as we do, act as we do, worship the same God we do? Isn�t that a bit arrogant? Their culture has been around an awful lot longer than ours has. We may think our culture is superior to theirs, that our way of governing is better than theirs, and that our God is the only true god. But, you know what? Maybe they feel the same way about us.

I�ve asked before, and I�ll ask again, �How would you feel if an alien force invaded the U.S. and leveled your community, killing your family and friends because they happened to be within the kill radius of a devastating smart bomb that targeted the house next door? It was targeted because the invading force had intelligence indicating that the house was a safe-house for a militant terrorist group of ex-jarheads who were resisting the invading force?�.

In the above scenario, the Marines are considered a �militant terrorist group� because they had taken up arms to fight the invaders. As far as your family and friends go, well, they�re just casualties of war. Every war has them.

Taking it a little further, let�s say all major cities in the U.S. are under seige and surrounded by a superior military force that could flatten them at will. Your favorite Uncle and cousins live in Tampa, FL, which happens to be under threat of being attacked by the invading force in 2 days. The military has announced their intention of pounding the city to rubble with bunker buster bombing raids, and recommends that the civilian population evacuate immediately. The consensus is that Tampa will likely be non-existent when it�s all over, with every living thing reduced to a fine red mist by the invader�s overpowering war machine. Unfortunately, Uncle Eddie hasn�t been well lately, is confined to the bed and is unable to evacuate. His children, your cousins, refuse to leave Uncle Eddie�s side and decide to stick it out with him no matter what.

While the above is taking place, the invaders insist to the rest of the world that they are on a mission to free the U.S. from oppression and replace the existing Democracy with a Theocracy. They claim that the U.S. citizenry welcomes their presence and supports their troops, and also that America�s Christian fundamentalist population has lovingly adopted the Muslim faith and have turned their lives over to Allah, for Allah is Great. It is also said that most American citizens hate the militant terrorist marine groups that have formed around the country and that are attacking the invading military with their primitive weapons.

Yeah, I know, dumb scenario. I�m anti-American and don�t support our troops in Iraq. Well, go ahead and believe that if it makes you feel better, but if you do, then you�re dead wrong. My problem isn�t with our great country or our great military. My problem is with George W. Bush, and his campaign to force his values, way of thinking and way of life on others whether they want it or not. IMHO, he knows not the forces he�s dealing with, and his excessive arrogance and ignorance may lead us down a very, very dangerous road �

Netbound,
Great analogyOnly problem is, it is prophetic. And in all probability will occur within your lifetime if you live another 4 to 10 years. If I were in an Iraqi body I would fight the occupiers to my death for the sake of liberty.
Why is this ideal so impossible for "Patriots" to understand. Was this not the very way our Nation was formed. Has our populace become so blindly religiously
impassioned by Nationalism that we are Nazi's
C'mon boy's and girl's jerk your heads out of URANUS and wake up. Our leaders, if that is what you want to call them have us embroiled in a unnecessary conflict. Designed for the sole purpose of increasing the size of their coffers at the expense of our sons, daughters, and brothers.
Follow the money, who is making it. Carlyle, Halliburton, Bechtel, Conoco, Dynacorp, etc... what the hlel is wrong with you. Somebody poke your freak'in eyes out. Or are you you merely fools to be taken.


WOW I can be ruthless

[edit on 25-11-2004 by Polar Bear]