SETI using wrong technology?

i have an extremely smart relative that said aliens that have interstellar ships would not use the electromagnetic spectrum to communicate with each other because this form of communication is too slow (which makes alot of sense). he said they would most likely use something else that is instantaneous that we have yet to discover. with that said maybe the reason seti hasnt found any alien transmissons on the electromagnetic spectrum is because the aliens have not used it in hundreds if not thousands of years. any thoughts on this?

Originally posted by rowsdower
i have an extremely smart relative that said aliens that have interstellar ships would not use the electromagnetic spectrum to communicate with each other because this form of communication is too slow (which makes alot of sense). he said they would most likely use something else that is instantaneous that we have yet to discover. with that said maybe the reason seti hasnt found any alien transmissons on the electromagnetic spectrum is because the aliens have not used it in hundreds if not thousands of years. any thoughts on this?

Yes I absolutely agree. Even we are pioneering new communication technology now for space. Radio just won't cut it - the way to go is quantum entanglement.

yeah i agree, heard that one way to do quantum communication involves spillting an electron in half. i heard the if you tweak the one half the of the electron the other half will vibrate at the exact same time, no matter where its location is. so you can do instant morris code with out waiting for the singal to go back and forth. can anyone with knowledge in quantum physics (which cant be many) confirm this?

Originally posted by rowsdower
yeah i agree, heard that one way to do quantum communication involves spillting an electron in half. i heard the if you tweak the one half the of the electron the other half will vibrate at the exact same time, no matter where its location is. so you can do instant morris code with out waiting for the singal to go back and forth. can anyone with knowledge in quantum physics (which cant be many) confirm this?

Yes, quantum entanglement works on the basis of something called "spooky action at a distance" which is as you said will allow instant information transfer between an entangled pair, regardless of the distance in 3D space.

The information is being sent beyond the dimensions of space-time. No, radio telescope in the world is capable of detecting quantum information. We need a whole different kind of telescope for that.

Radio is so dead. The whole SETI research is redundant. The only way it is going to receive a signal, if an ET race decides to make first contact by sending a primitive radio signal. I think it is fairly obvious, if we consider there has been no SETI cover ups, that we are either the only intelligent civilization in a radius of 40-50 light years, or we are the most primitive civilization in this range.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Yeah, I read about that quantum entanglement thing in a book I read. I think it was called The Science of UFO's.

Maybe, but has radio does have a purpose and would be a likely step in their evolution. Also, unless all their astronomers are zipping about in interstellar hot rods, they would still likely use radio astronomy as it has some unique capabilities.

Entanglement is definitely cool however and any advanced race probably has harnessed it but what about their terrestrial communications? For some stuff radio is just fine and would leak out away from their planet for us to hear.

I thought there was a group going to do optical (laser) Seti scanning - Horowitz and his crew maybe??

For some stuff radio is just fine and would leak out away from their planet for us to hear.

I personally don't see why they would be using radio for anything. It would be akin to us still using carrier pigeons. Radio has too many limitations and problems:

1. It can only travel at the speed of light
2. It can be easily intercepted
3. It can be affected by weather and other field interference
4. It is an analogue wave and can only carry limited information

We have ourselves advanced beyond radio and moving to optical and microwave information. For an advanced ET race that is most probably communicating across a vast expanse for even terrestrial communcations, instantaneous information would be necessary.

I cannot imagine any system in an advanced ET civilization that would require radio information transmission. As studies have shown with quantum entanglement.

1. It is near impossible to intercept
2. It travels at infinite speed
3. It is not affected by EM interference or weather

As soon as QE systems are used here, we too would have no use for radio or even microwave. All communications would be subspace, be it cell phones, internet, media etc.

I also was interested in this question, very similiar! Asking how we could communicate without 'radio waves' in one form or another (micro waves, laser beams, etc) such that it could not be intercepted and large amounts of data could be passed..
Interesting how these two questions appeared about the same time

QE could be used for communication and also for energy transmission. Just imagine: no cables, no batteries.

Radio has lasted 100 years and will last probably another 100. Heck we still have and use morse code and there are working teletypes and other gizmos in our museums.

Heck, we could come up with a method of sending music direcly into the brain but some geek would still have his speakers. We still use sailboats, although not for commerce much anymore. I've got a mechnical watch. Entaglement does nothing for radio astronomy - we are talking extra galactic stuff to the edge of the detectable universe. Mighty fine alien ride to get out there....

If they had radio, trust me, there is some alien nerd still playing with it. If there were 2 they would be talking and probably have a club....

If the aliens were using radio, say, 1000 years ago, and they live in a star system 1000 light years away then the radio transmissions they were using would just be reaching us now. We might not detect their current transmissions but we might pick up a relic from the past. Just a thought.

Entaglement does nothing for radio astronomy - we are talking extra galactic stuff to the edge of the detectable universe. Mighty fine alien ride to get out there....

I am not entirely sure if QE does not do anything for astonomy. I am sure if ET's could detect quantum information from space, that it would allow for a much more powerful means of charting space than a telescope.

Further, if ET's are capable of FTL interstellar travel, then there would again be no need for radio telescopes, as they can only measure information travelling at the speed of light.

Further, I doubt we can expect a similar social structure and culture, where "nerds" have some kind of obsession with primitive technology. However, if there was, then the radio emissions would be tiny and would easily get lost in the background noise of space.

The assumption on which SETI is based on, that an advanced civilization would be beaming all kinds of radio information from communications, however it is very ignorant in assuming that they would still be using radio.

[edit on 24-11-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Drake hit it well although I think it should be adjusted to include the age of the galaxy and the time a civilization would use radio say 200 years or so and factor that in to see what we get....

The Drake Equation was developed by Frank Drake in 1961 as a way to focus on the factors which determine how many intelligent, communicating civilizations there are in our galaxy. The Drake Equation is: N = N* fp ne fl fi fc fL

A good estimate for Drake is 1000 but that is in total and does not take time or distance into account. We know the rough age of galaxy - give it a few million years to get life moving and then start to plug in the numbers. Best guess for Milky way is 13,600 million years so round it down to 12,000 and we get 1000/12,000 Million/200 year window and we get 1 every 416 years. With diameter of MW at 100,000 light years we should pick up 100,000/416 or roughly 240 and we get 1 every 240 years chit chatting away at any one time. I may have futzed the math but you get the picture.... Given we've only been doing this for 50 years, we have a way's to go before that stats get ugly and we have to say no dice....

rowsdower,

I tink ur right, it's obvious that we're not using the right tech. I thought the same thing ever since I've heard if SETI. Our way of interstellar communication takes to long, especially if you want to communicate with a alien species across the galaxy, it takes years for these satelite signals to reach across it's destination, and most the time these signals get lost. I seriously doubt that that a alien civilization which is thousands, maybe millions of years ahead of us would use a primitive/simple way of interstellar communications.