Would kicking all illegal immagrants out = economic boom?

Simple question, would kicking all illegals out of our country would that cause an economic boom?

Washington Post

“The more likely figure is 18-20 million and rising daily,” Zack Taylor, chairman of the National Association of Former Border Patrol Officers, Inc., said in an open letter dated Sunday. Read more: www.washingtontimes.com... Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Jobs in:

Construction
Landscaping
Production
Farming

All of these jobs were high paying jobs and enable the creation of small business's and competitive wages.

So, i ask again, would kicking illegals out cause an economic boom?

My reasoning is that those jobs are jobs that would go to people born in this country normally without a mass migration of tens of millions of people in short periods of time.

At what point do we need to put a stop to this?

They are all just the modern equivalent of slaves. The slave trade is alive and well!

Yes,I know, they do get paid but at a much reduced wage. Yes, things would pick up as more jobs would be available at the bottom if you will and that is one hell of a lot of jobs.

P

reply to post by onequestion

With the jobs you mentioned, maybe? The one area we would suffering is harvesting crops, which is hugely tied to agriculture industry and our tables. Time and time again those specific jobs are not filled by unemployed workers because they can't or won't handle it. Can't say I blame them, picking fruit and veg for 10-12 hours a day for minimum wage jet won't appeal to enough workers to fill the bill, imho. I could be wrong but this is my impression..

The illegal immigrants who harvest our crops have grown up doing this, learning the way my grandparents did. There are almost no Americans left who have either the painfully developed musculature or the painstakingly acquired knowledge to rapidly harvest a field without damaging the crop. And acquiring those skills is tricky, because the picking season for any one crop is very short . . . after which, it's time to start picking another crop that you don't know how to handle. And it's best done in a group of people who know what they're doing, not in a clueless mob that just got dumped in the fields for the first time. Of course, you can stretch this period out by following the crop from south to north . . . but most Americans do not want to live as migrant laborers, moving on every week or so and working through the weekend as long as the sun shines.

To my mind, it's a good thing that we no longer have much skilled farm labor in our citizenry: Americans don't have these skills because they have better alternatives. They don't migrate with the crops because they have better options that let them stay put.

www.theatlantic.com...
Dare I say US farmers depend on illegals working the fields?

Now the construction and landscaping, yes illegals do sometimes hurt the industry, and I have seen it. Business owners seek the lowest wage earners though so often and these guys will take any offer! How can you beat that from the owner's perspective and how can you compete with that as a skilled worker whip deserves more than minimum wage? Should they hire legal citizens? Sure but they don't enough and thus hold some responsibility.
Maybe a 'job' boom would be more appropriate in the mentioned labor industries. The agriculture industry would suffer the most and then so would we at the cash register in the supermarket.

reply to post by onequestion


Simple answer, No

reply to post by onequestion

So, i ask again, would kicking illegals out cause an economic boom?

The farmers that employ these people would have to pay you higher wages and then then theres w-2, insurance, etc.

They would find a way to get those "illegal" slaves back across the border hey, just like they do right now.

pheonix358
They are all just the modern equivalent of slaves. The slave trade is alive and well!

Yes,I know, they do get paid but at a much reduced wage. Yes, things would pick up as more jobs would be available at the bottom if you will and that is one hell of a lot of jobs.

P

We are all the modern equivalent of slaves, all indentured, all chattel, all formed as debt product for trade by the banksters. I do agree that throwing out all the illegals in the US and Canada would give rise to temporary increases in jobs. But if you want real increases, cancel the free trade agreements and bring manufacturing back home, rein in the politicians and intelligence community (NSA/DHS/TSA), remove corporate/government revolving door policies/activity, make lobbying illegal and dissolve the central bank (FED and BOC). Then we can start hunting down the traitors in government and try them for treason ;-)

Seems a pretty straightforward solution to me.

Cheers - Dave

In the industry i work in i encounter lots of illegals. They are paid more than their american counterparts and the common reason given by employers is that the illegals are far more productive and have by far better work ethics than the average american. You will find agriculture , furniture, and construction industries would increase cost of doing business by far if illegals were kicked.

reply to post by onequestion


Hello.

Would kicking out illegal immigrants create an economic boom?

NO.

If anything, it would cause everything pretty much everywhere to be more expensive.

Why?
Because a large portion of jobs held by these peoples are jobs that are often performed at lower wages by peoples in this demographic. As has been stated by some members, it's basically paid slave labor.

Deport all the people that are not only working these jobs at the wages they're earning; happy and willing to do so in contrast to the alternatives available in their home countries, and this creates a demand for workers, but, workers that will typically only work for higher (standardized) wages which in turn raises the prices of every service and goods in the related industry.

This is why many companies opt to open shop in foreign countries due the more cost effective and thus profitable wage requirements.
Those companies that are local, who exploit immigrants will either close shop unable or unwilling to pay higher wages, move, and/or raise prices.

In the end this does nothing to benefit any local economy and if anything does more to depress it.

Shaiker
In the industry i work in i encounter lots of illegals. They are paid more than their american counterparts and the common reason given by employers is that the illegals are far more productive and have by far better work ethics than the average american. You will find agriculture , furniture, and construction industries would increase cost of doing business by far if illegals were kicked.

The reason they pay them a little more is because they are paid in cash. No taxes no paper trail.

reply to post by thesaneone


That's where your wrong most pay taxes on the illegals just use a bogus ss number so that they cannot be charged with tax evasion.

Why that would leave just a handful of Indians on reserves ?

I say all Western Countries need to kick out the 2 major Parties who have rigged the system and go to a system that doesn't allow Politicians to be bought out all the time and steal the Countries wealth for the elite few. Sack everyone of them and have a system where "Bills" get forwarded from communities for communities and are voted on via the internet so a real Democracy can be born where the people put up the Laws and vote on them not some biased payed off "Politician for Life".

Inact "Anti-Gouging" laws so everything is priced properly because people are paying too much for energy, food, water and health care which are essentials and should be practically free. No personally taxes should ever be paid because that would be illegal under this anti gouging laws. You could pay a worker 50$ a day if rents, food, clothing and energy was properly priced and not elevated to a level where only the few can pay now.

The simple fact of Western society is this....Its now so expensive to live here we have to ask for exorbitant wages to survive at a certain living standard. Business's can't afford this wages bill so they try to hire cheaper illegals but keep their prices high so in effect its a system close to failure.

When companies fire all these high paid employees eventually there will be no-one who can afford their products/services because we are all too poor and they close down, so I say anti gouging laws will work and price things for what they are really worth.

reply to post by onequestion


YES

remittances siphon enormous sums of money out of the economy.

WAGES would increase
Millions of jobs would be available.

People would have WAAAYY more disposable income because of the above --> PLUS

rents would be Much lower due to lots of vacancies... And SLUMLORDS would be financially harmed. the glee from that alone makes me all giddy.

reply to post by HanzHenry


But the cost of goods goes up too.

Let's see

Roofing
Agriculture
Housekeeping
Dishwashing at restaurants

All those jobs they are willing to do for wages between 7 and 12 dollars an hour. I HIGHLY doubt any legal citizen would last a week in those jobs at those wages. would it create a boom? Highly unlikely as it would remove billions of dollars in sales tax from the local economy and at the same time drive up prices since companies would be forced to pay more for labor.

reply to post by onequestion


The simple answer? No.

Without cheap labour, most of the companies who employ an abundance of illegal immigrants would probably shut up shop, or drastically downsize. The contraction they would go through, would mean that there would be little to no benefit for the wider economy in the immediate sense, and stability, at nearly any cost, is demanded by money marketeers in order to keep US currency values high enough to dominate when compared with most world wide currencies.

Lack of access to very cheap labour would also mean that several medium sized businesses would simply collapse, not just close down, but be bankrupt within days. This would be because the owners had no exit strategy, having been unable to conceive of a time when they could not acquire labour at a rate which suited them. Also, the price of every service, and product which has been delivered using illegal immigrant labour over the last twenty or more years, would skyrocket, because those businesses which were using cheap labour to avoid paying a proper wage, would suddenly find themselves having to pay a decent wage. The chances of business owners taking that hit to their own pocket, rather than passing on that increase to their customers are remote at best.

So, you would have contraction as businesses shrink to meet the new operating requirements of doing business, and you would have price increases on products and services at the same time. It would be a total bloody mess, and of course, because this is the USA we are talking about, the government would find any effort they made to regulate, to smooth those troubled waters, slapped around by congressional foolishness, citing that any regulation FORCING businesses to just absorb the cost without raising prices, to be some kind of unconstitutional, or some such other malarkey. They'd probably just holler the word communism until someone got impeached!

It is rather less a pipe dream, than a roughly cylindrical nightmare scenario. That is the sort of moron play that would see the entire world economy take a hit that would make 2008 look like a church picnic.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Here in Spain they made things simple about 10 years ago.
They gave evryone who could prove they had been in Spain for more than five years the chance to become legal.
This was due to the fact each year millions of euros were being sent home to Ecuador, Colombia and Rumania from money earnt illegaly by uncontracted workers.

They also gave an amnesty to illegal workers. If you wanted to, you could inform on the business who had been employing you illegally, they would fine the business or shut it down, you would be paid what you were owed and then they would make you a legal citizen...

A lot, and i mean a LOT of businesses started to shudder...and a lot closed because they couldn't afford to pay the nearly 500 euros a month for each worker in social security and taxes.

Sometimes it better to leave things as they are, for the time being anyway, even though it's morally wrong.

Seriously? So many saying it would break the economy. The powerhouse of the free world would collapse if you sent the illegals home?

Yea, OK. Is there anything in America that is based on legitimate enterprise? Just seems so, I don't know, 'off' perhaps.

This is not a question of cheap labor, it is Big Business screwing everyone.

It seems to be, get illegals to work or send it overseas to someone else that does not give a cracker about the little people.

Leaders of the free world? Jeez mate, devastating concept!

P

reply to post by andy1972


And look what happened to Spain in the mean time?

It was one of several nations which were staring down the barrel of massive financial collapse, and had the IMF circling it like a flock of carrion birds!

This is precisely what I am talking about.

As for Phoenix's comments, questioning the idea of a collapse driven by action on immigration, and the question of whether or not there is any legitimate enterprise in existence at the moment... Well those are two very different questions.

One, yes, rocking the boat right now would be a moron play. There is no question that significant action effecting the labour market, would cause significant backlashes in the markets and damage currently existing , and vital businesses. On the subject of whether there are businesses operating in a purely laudable fashion, yes, there probably are, but they are not the ones which are keeping the US looking healthy, at least at first glance, from a numbers perspective.

Simply put, the companies which make the biggest profits, are those which have the best methods of breaking the law without getting caught. That pretty much applies to all business, everywhere. There are sure to be some businesses out there, run by morally minded folk who do not employ illegal immigrants, will not allow any corner cutting to save money, and so on, and so forth. None of them are likely to be of a scale which makes them crucial to the financial stability of the nation, because all the big, powerful companies are run by people whose ONLY interest, their only motivation, is pleasing a boardroom, and making stock market moves which mean more money for them. The dollar is the law, and all else besides is a hurdle to the big players.

It has ALWAYS been this way, and I for one am surprised, that anyone is shocked by this any more!

muse7
Let's see

Roofing
Agriculture
Housekeeping
Dishwashing at restaurants

All those jobs they are willing to do for wages between 7 and 12 dollars an hour. I HIGHLY doubt any legal citizen would last a week in those jobs at those wages. would it create a boom? Highly unlikely as it would remove billions of dollars in sales tax from the local economy and at the same time drive up prices since companies would be forced to pay more for labor.

Legal citizens ARE doing those jobs.. ffs! And their wages have been drastically harmed by the contractors who hire illegals. I know people, family and friends who have called upon contractors and when they see a non-American crew show up to work send the company away.

Roofing USED to pay very well, amazingly it was not so expensive as to be prohibitve. The wages in 1993, when I was a part time roofer in High School, was HIGHER than today. $22/hr then, $14/hr now. My high school had a Co-op program. Roofing is not that hard of a job, in 2006 I roofed my mother's house by myself! just had a neighbor help me 2 saturdays (because I had helped him with his, including repair of a couple rotting rafters a month previous)

Agriculture, Pfft, migrant workers did part of this job for DECADES. Legal migrants. and you are falsely under the opinion otherwise.

Housekeeping, really? I have been to dozens of Holiday Inn Expresses over the last 15 years. Many of the staff used to be mothers working while kids were at school, college young women, etc.

Dishwashing, was once a high schoolers job, college student's job, etc..

What you fail to realize is that illegals get WELFARE bennies such as EBT, medicare, housing, etc.. that is a supplement to their low wages. Americans are DOCUMENTED workers, and would get caught and busted, but illegals are undocumented so there is no evidence for the welfare dept to catch them on.

I get sick and tired of the illegal immigrant sympathizers. America used to have waves of LEGAL immigrants come here.

-ones that were CHECKED OUT for COMMUNICABLE (read: CONTAGIOUS DISEASE).. what IDIOT would allow disease spreaders?
- Ellis Island also had RACE QUOTAS, NATIONALITY QUOTAS, LANGUAGE TESTS, CIVICS TESTS, EYE COLOR QUOTAS, etc..
- AND turned AWAY as many people as were allowed in.

If there are not those things today, it is because America does NOT need any more people. 300+ million is PLENTY to do every job! especially thanks to automation and technology.

reply to post by onequestion


Mathematically, no.

For economic growth you need to create more aggregate demand.
Kicking out illegals wouldn't do that, nor higher the contingent of jobs in your economy.
It would just open the same contingent of jobs for legals, which would add associated wages to the job contingent, and subsequently (given the same aggregate demand) end in even LESS jobs.

Bobs_uruncle's approach is on the right track for several reasons.

To create more real aggregate demand you need to reduce VAT and corporate tax rates (which are skimming off purchasing power out of the economy), so more people can be employed, get payed more, AND can actually afford more (and better) goods for their money.

Everyone in society would profit from this approach, except the bloated state machinery (even the illegals, because our free trade agreements and incorporated wars wouldn't wreck the places they're coming from in the first place)!

*ETA:
I just looked it up! This question used to be in 10th grade applied economics!
No wonder this is almost not taught anymore... our state-of-the-art governments have no interest in us understanding applied economics. It's way better for them if we blame illegal immigrants instead of blaming the system.